[N/A] Job Help [N/A]

Caramon13

Caramon13

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Sarasota, FL
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Display name:
Romeo
So I posted a thread a while back about me looking for a couple new jobs, one was up in DC. Since then I've also cast a wide net with my job applications and honestly the results are a bit depressing.

Let me say that while I do enjoy SOME parts of my current job, my boss is a complete idiot. I often sit at my desk and wonder what the heck I'm even going to do for the time I'm at work. I have entire days when I just browse the internet. And it's not from a lack of trying to do work. I've asked my boss to give me more work, I volunteer for anything that will keep me busy and I try to pick up new tasks as often as I can, but I just can't keep a solid workload. I'm too fast apparently...

Most of my work involves "testing" things that my boss decides to do on a whim with no company backing. When those fail, I get to do them all over again (often many times). There is zero forward progress and I can tell it's frustrating more than just me.

But, despite this I cannot for the life of me find an alternative. I can't find anything in my state so I started looking nation-wide.

I've been through many interviews, some have moved forward, one led to a company wanting to relocate me, but none have ultimately gone anywhere. And I've been looking for a LONG time. Like, over a year now. Honestly if I was unemployed I'd probably be in big trouble financially so, I'm forced to stay where I am to pay the bills.

So, what am I doing wrong? Is it my resume? My expectations for salary/benefits? It's amazing to me that I apply to a job with exactly what they are asking for and don't even get through the first stage gate.

If you're a hiring manager, what really stands out to you when an applicant applies for a job? I'd honestly quit this job tomorrow if I found any reasonable alternative.

I feel like I'm going to extremes to leave this job by applying to any job that even remotely fits my qualifications, because it frustrates me endlessly.

Argggggh...
 
Personality and ability to create value are key. If the hiring manager can't immediately see or predict that, then what stands out to me is a prior record of measurable accomplishments (company financials; job promotions; list of successes).

Feel free to share your resume for more specific advice.
 
Without the whole resume... what do you do?

Tell us your core competency. [Truck diver, Programmer, Dish washer, Business analyst, Drug dealer]

Then.. briefly describe how those random tasks your "idiot boss" gives you relate to your core competency. [By the way, everyone wants to be the next to hire someone who calls his former bosses idiots]

There used to be statistics [late 80s] like "a job search takes 2 months for every 10k of the salary" I doubt that's true now. I also doubt it was true then. I do still believe most jobs are filled before they are advertised.

Now then... the real advice: Find ONE recruiter who works only with your skill set and work with them. Don't wallpaper, or chase advertised positions at all. Give them 3 months and if you aren't getting phone interviews or in-person interviews move on and tell them not to share your data any longer.

There will be some start/stop in the process, but what do you care? You've got a job. You'll find someone who is marketing YOU.
 
If you are getting in the front door, but failing the interviews, I would look at the attiude you are projecting during the interview. When I hire, if I hear a lot of negativity about previous employers (even justified) I usually will pass. The reason is; I don't want someone bringing that poison into my organization. One bad apple can ruin the whole bunch. For instance, you are blaming your boss here (perhaps justifiably) and not taking any responsibility yourself. A key attribute of an outstanding employee is initiative. Try to make change, in spite of your boss not helping you. If you fail, you can still discuss the positive changes you attempted to implement and that you would like to find an organization where you can have a greater impact (nothing negative about your current company, you are just looking fo growth opportunity).
 
A couple of personal projects have led to jobs. I can't show an employer's stuff in an interview (for a couple of reasons), but I can show off what I've done on my own time. It's been well received, gives me something to talk about in detail and shows I can learn new things.

Don't know what you do (yet), but is it something that would let you do this?
 
if you have lots of downtime at work, could be a good time to brush up on some skillz you want to learn. years ago when I was bored stiff on the helpdesk I learn't some web programming stuff.
 
eman1200 said:
if you have lots of downtime at work, could be a good time to brush up on some skillz you want to learn. years ago when I was bored stiff on the helpdesk I learn't some web programming stuff.
Click to expand...

.:yeahthat:

There is all kinds of stuff available online to improve your resume'. A lot of it is free or inexpensive. Take advantage of the time.
 
I'm basically a Business Analyst, but more focused on the reporting side as opposed to the "analysis" side.

@Ravioli some key tasks that have come up lately:
  • We decide on a security model for a project, spend 3 months getting it ready with meetings twice a week to go over the model, changes, etc. Get to a week before implementation and boss says, meh, let's try something completely different because I don't understand it. They were there at the meetings...we had working sessions, lunch meetings, white board discussions, etc. And we had the approval to go, and user buy-in on the proposed structure, but we reverted which amounted to basically a do-over.
  • Cosmetic decisions regarding report presentation. Listen, as much as I love choosing between Tahoma and Arial fonts, when I have a deadline to review 100+ objects that is due in the next 3 days, font choices are the last thing on my mind. But, my boss saw one report some consultant did and made the call to globally change everything with no input from users.
It's almost work for the sake of work. There's more of that of course. It's mostly the stuff that comes through that my boss is excited about and wants to completely bypass process to put in so they can play with it. Think shiny objects. My "idiot" comment was emotional of course..I would never outwardly show any of that kind of disdain. In fact I've usually gotten compliments on how helpful and friendly I am..maybe I should get into acting? :)

@John221us if I can get an initial interview, I usually make it all the way to an offer. My problem is I can't get that most times. There has been one case in the last 10 years where I made it all the way through and didn't get it. But I think that was due to someone cheaper which I was made aware of ahead of time. I am always VERY careful not to burn bridges. And having done the hiring thing once or twice I know exactly how you look when you try to down your former employer..good advice though.

@Mistake Not... I do that almost constantly with my current boss and its well received, but when most of my day is doing and then re-doing what I did on a whim, it gets VERY repetitive, quickly. I have picked up a few side projects outside of this job but none have really gone anywhere. I do tutoring when able and consulting work (when it comes up).

@eman1200 Yeah, I really have been trying to get into app development (iPhone or Android) lately. Even got my son excited about us creating an app together. Python also seems to be a pretty in-demand skill right now, along with Ruby on Rails and a few others. I just don't have the time to stay proficient in it unfortunately. I thought about a coding boot camp or something to kick things off because good developers where I live are like unicorns. I constantly get headhunter emails about Developer jobs because I have a few languages on my resume for stuff I wrote a while back.
 
I'm not sure what your search technique is, but from my experience, applying for advertised jobs seems to be the most frustrating and least productive methods of all. Most companies don't advertise until they are desperate, and when they do advertise, they are usually inundated with so many resumes that they spend about 3 seconds on each one just looking for an excuse to toss it into the circular file.

I always suggest trying to figure out where you might want to work and then apply to those places, even if they don't have a specific job opening. Research those companies to the best of your ability, then in your cover letter, explain what you have to offer and why you want to work for that company. But as has been said before, NEVER be negative about your past or present situation.
 
Go out and start your own business.

I have helped 3 people do just that and they are financially secure and make more money.

I was in IT and they worked for jack wagons who underpaid/overworked them.

No, I cannot help you and I am not recruiting for a MLM program.

If you have skills, stop working for a paycheck and make your own way in the world.
 
Two things: I assume you're in IT. You said "security" but you also said "reporting side business analyst". So I'm a little lost. That's normal for me. Speak in specifics. :)

Meanwhile, advice...

Figure out what it is you do that makes or saves the company (preferably big) money. If you like doing that thing do as much of it as you can and make sure you are mildly (very mildly) rooting for yourself where it's noticed a little. Ultimately that's the only reason any employee has a job, right? There will ALWAYS be the "other crap" you have to do that is NOT useful but needed. Changing fonts, for example. (You likely work for at some level above you someone trained as a Marketing executive if they're harping on the fonts, and that's okay...)

Second: Personal goal setting. What do you want to be doing in five years, and when you're applying for jobs, is it because they get you there, or are you just applying for jobs? I don't know how many people I've "passed" on because I can't figure out WHY they want our job that's open, besides a paycheck. It shows. It really does. I fully expect people we are hiring to either want something new/bigger in five years or they'll be telling us they're leaving and it won't be a surprise. In a good way for both parties. Well not so good for us because they're usually damn good at what they do to get to their goals.

So... what do you want to be doing in five years? Go after whatever the best step is toward that and the "job hunt" often takes care of itself.
 
denverpilot said:
Second: Personal goal setting. What do you want to be doing in five years, and when you're applying for jobs, is it because they get you there, or are you just applying for jobs? I don't know how many people I've "passed" on because I can't figure out WHY they want our job that's open, besides a paycheck. It shows. It really does. I fully expect people we are hiring to either want something new/bigger in five years or they'll be telling us they're leaving and it won't be a surprise. In a good way for both parties. Well not so good for us because they're usually damn good at what they do to get to their goals.

So... what do you want to be doing in five years? Go after whatever the best step is toward that and the "job hunt" often takes care of itself.
Click to expand...

This. Read all of this. Carefully. Then figure out how to execute on it very well.

I can't tell you how many "motivated" and "top performers" I've passed on because they are stumped about what they want to be doing in five years.

Short sightedness is a problem and (in my opinion) comes across blatantly in an interview if you know how to ask the right questions and ask them several times in different ways.

Good luck

TJ



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Caramon13 said:
I'm basically a Business Analyst, but more focused on the reporting side as opposed to the "analysis" side.

@Ravioli some key tasks that have come up lately:
  • We decide on a security model for a project, spend 3 months getting it ready with meetings twice a week to go over the model, changes, etc. Get to a week before implementation and boss says, meh, let's try something completely different because I don't understand it. They were there at the meetings...we had working sessions, lunch meetings, white board discussions, etc. And we had the approval to go, and user buy-in on the proposed structure, but we reverted which amounted to basically a do-over.
  • Cosmetic decisions regarding report presentation. Listen, as much as I love choosing between Tahoma and Arial fonts, when I have a deadline to review 100+ objects that is due in the next 3 days, font choices are the last thing on my mind. But, my boss saw one report some consultant did and made the call to globally change everything with no input from users.
It's almost work for the sake of work. There's more of that of course. It's mostly the stuff that comes through that my boss is excited about and wants to completely bypass process to put in so they can play with it. Think shiny objects. My "idiot" comment was emotional of course..I would never outwardly show any of that kind of disdain. In fact I've usually gotten compliments on how helpful and friendly I am..maybe I should get into acting? :)

@John221us if I can get an initial interview, I usually make it all the way to an offer. My problem is I can't get that most times. There has been one case in the last 10 years where I made it all the way through and didn't get it. But I think that was due to someone cheaper which I was made aware of ahead of time. I am always VERY careful not to burn bridges. And having done the hiring thing once or twice I know exactly how you look when you try to down your former employer..good advice though.

@Mistake Not... I do that almost constantly with my current boss and its well received, but when most of my day is doing and then re-doing what I did on a whim, it gets VERY repetitive, quickly. I have picked up a few side projects outside of this job but none have really gone anywhere. I do tutoring when able and consulting work (when it comes up).

@eman1200 Yeah, I really have been trying to get into app development (iPhone or Android) lately. Even got my son excited about us creating an app together. Python also seems to be a pretty in-demand skill right now, along with Ruby on Rails and a few others. I just don't have the time to stay proficient in it unfortunately. I thought about a coding boot camp or something to kick things off because good developers where I live are like unicorns. I constantly get headhunter emails about Developer jobs because I have a few languages on my resume for stuff I wrote a while back.
Click to expand...

Do you have an IIBA cert? I won't hire a Biz Analyst without a cert. I'm not paying 100 bucks an hour (or more!) for someone who doesn't hold a cert in BA and a cert in the app I'm hiring for (either Salesforce, Cisco, Avaya or Oracle RightNow.)

Garmin world hq is right down the street (Olathe KS) and one of my biggest competitors for talent. Their recruiters look for the same, so I know I'm not crazy. Also, how are you publicizing your brand? What articles have you written on LinkedIn about Biz Analyst (or reporting.) What do you tweet about? I personally stay away from Facebook (I treat it as my personal life and keep work out of it) but I know other recruiters that look hard at it. It's too easy to look at all the social medias with tech these days. What do they say about you?

Your resume- does it show how you build transformational products? I could care less about the guy who has helped bring a new security model to a company. Those are a dime a dozen. But whose helped the CRO and CSO understand the implications of a certain security model and helped develop a plan to implement that model across several applications owned by different IT groups. Now your starting to show me that you can talk to the big guys and the little guys. That's super important (at least to me.)

Good luck.

TJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
@JOhnH Yes, I'm definitely tired of the application process. It's menial, and the most frustrating part is I'll spend an hour on a thoughtful application to have some paper pusher read something out of order and ****can it in 30 seconds. Such is life.

@texasag93 I did that once, but I really only half-***ed it. I would love to do my own thing. My issue right now is I don't have the money saved up to try to "make it work" for a couple months. So, I have to part-time everything and most companies don't want/need a part-timer. The other issue is my skills are broad, but not deep. I "could" focus on any number of things, but I think right now I have no idea where to start, or even what to focus on. And, my biggest struggle is getting out there to get new clients. I have enormous respect for those people who busted their ***es and got it done.

@denverpilot Yes, welcome to my world :). I am in a small department right now, and I do it all...from the development, to the security, to the design, etc...I'm somewhat envious of those people who can put on just one hat and excel in that well defined role. Either my boss or my job (usually both) have required a large breadth of knowledge. I've applied at a bunch of different interesting (to me) positions. Money is important though. I wish I could say it doesn't matter and I love what I do, but it has become a balance. I have a few loans that I'm still paying off and while I'll be able to relax in a couple years I just can't do that right now. So, pay is the #1 thing I look at to qualify a position. Even if the job sounds super awesome, if I'm taking a pay cut, I don't even wanna look at it.

@Tj1376 Thanks, I used to know what I wanted to do in 5 years, but lately I'm so focused on stupid stuff that I have no time to think about the "big picture". When people ask me that I inwardly groan. As for certifications, I respect that they are important to you but all they tell me is someone can cram for a month and pass a test. Even still I appreciate your perspective, it helps because I asked for others opinions, maybe mine are getting in the way.

To answer your question about the IIBA thing, I "could" sit for an IIBA and my PMP certification, but I haven't. I haven't even see those being a requirement on any jobs I've looked at, with a few exceptions for the PMP cert. Maybe your location is different.

I'm not a real social-media type of guy, but I recognize the importance of it to some places. Writing an article is a good idea, I've started a few times, but I think, who am I to write this? And who's going to care? It's a bit intimidating.
 
Tj1376 said:
This. Read all of this. Carefully. Then figure out how to execute on it very well.

I can't tell you how many "motivated" and "top performers" I've passed on because they are stumped about what they want to be doing in five years.

Short sightedness is a problem and (in my opinion) comes across blatantly in an interview if you know how to ask the right questions and ask them several times in different ways.

Good luck

TJ
Click to expand...

This. I had a contract flying job that was to end on 15Sept01. Of course it ended on 9/11. Hiring for flying jobs was pretty much non-existent right after that. And the competition for what jobs were available was fierce.

After trying for a month, I gave up and applied for a job selling RVs. (not the airplane) During the interview that question came up. "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?"

I told him I see myself doing your job. His expression was priceless. Before he could say anything, I continued. "I figure in 5 years you will be moved up in the company and at that time I will have the experience to take over your position."

I got the job. That night I got a call from a small airline in Barrow, AK. I took that job instead. :confused:

Set 5 year, 10 year and 15 year goals. Those goals will probably change after a couple years but to others it looks like you are planning ahead.

And telling the interviewer you are after his job might not be the best thing to say....
 
I've hired a lot of people over the years. Here are a few thoughts:

Referrals are the best path into a company. Work your network of friends, then work their friends. The general approach should be "I'm employed but looking for a new job and am wondering if you could give me some advice." People love to give advice but they don't like to be sold or pushed. At the end of the telcon, ask "do you know anyone else who might give me some advice on this?" Then you contact that person, using the referror's name. And so on. Use some kind of CRM system, which need not be anything more than a spreadsheet, to keep track of everyone you talk to and to stay in touch where that will be useful. Set dates for follow-up calls. "You gave me some good advice and I just wanted to update you on what I have been doing." Staying top-of-mind with the people in your network will increase the chance you'll get called when someone hears of something.

Do you understand the purpose of a resume? (Hint: It is not to get the job.) It is to get the interview. When I had a job open and got a stack of resumes, my goal was to eliminate all but a few as fast as I could. I was much closer to @JOhnH's three second estimate than to your 30 seconds. So the resume has to be short and key things need to be prominent. Refer an interested reader to LinkedIn, where you should have a really good page with multiple recommendations. If you get the interview, you can hand-deliver a more comprehensive resume that is specifically tailored to show that you have made yourself familiar with the company and have highlighted areas where you might contribute.

Asking here "What am I doing wrong?" might be fun, but it would be much more effective to talk to people who have rejected you. That may not be the easiest thing but it is worth some effort.
 
@Caramon13, when I transitioned out of the military last year and into the business sector, I had to figure out a few key things. You need to do the same.

1. What do you do, how do you help your current employer be successful, what does the market value those skills at?

2. What do you want to do, what are you prepared to do (knowledge, skills, education/certification, experience), what value does your proposed industry put on those things.

3. Where do you want to do what you want to do. Location, company, title/role, salary.

4. Network, network, network. You know someone who can help you find your next position, once you know the answers to Q1-Q3. If you don't know someone directly, someone you know does know someone that can help you.
 
So I decided to take everyone's advice, which I read to mean as "stepping back" to really understand what in the heck I want.

I had a couple interviews scheduled, but I cancelled them because they were impulsive applications and they don't really give me anything I don't already have. One was going to be for an out of state job with a relocation package, they wanted to fly me out there to interview. Better to cut the cord now then to go to an offer and possibly decline if I'm not sure.

I'm going to try to take this weekend to define my ideal "role", whatever that might be and when I search (if I search) for a job, it will be a very focused one. I also like the idea of starting my own business again, maybe I'll take a look at the possibilities of that as well. But I'm going to definitely calm the heck down when it comes to job searching and go back to basics before I get back into it.
 
denverpilot said:
So... did you figure out what you want to be when you grow up yet, @Caramon13?

(Don't worry, most of the rest of us haven't either.) :)
Click to expand...

A pilot of course Nate... :)

Still working through the other "stuff" though. I got a call from a recruiter with a job doing XXX and I was sorta proud of myself in saying, "nope, not interested" instead of my usual, "Yeah that sounds like something I could do" reply. I need to learn how to say "no".
 
I've never done a resume or answered an ad in my life. Every job I've ever got was one that I wanted. I got those jobs from meeting the boss or a high ranking employee in a social (golf course, party, bar, wedding, etc.) type setting. If I was to work for a company these days, first thing I'd do is find a company that I would actually want to work for. I'd research their sales, their employees, their products/services, their patents, their ability to expand, etc. Then I'd key in on either the boss, or a couple high ranking employees and investigate them. Find out all you can on them. Where do they like to hang out, what are their interests or hobbies. FarceBook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn are perfect depositories for that type of information. Seems everybody these days likes to brag about themselves and try to impress others. Once you've banked that information, then it's just a matter of you being in the right place at the right time and striking up a conversation and making yourself some new friends. From there it's just a matter of time before they ask you to show up for work.
 
Caramon13 said:
If you're a hiring manager, what really stands out to you when an applicant applies for a job?
Click to expand...

A candidate with practical skills or education that can make eye contact, stops for a moment to think about their responses to the interview questions, and can hold an intelligent conversation is usually going to get hired.
 
azblackbird said:
I've never done a resume or answered an ad in my life. Every job I've ever got was one that I wanted. I got those jobs from meeting the boss or a high ranking employee in a social (golf course, party, bar, wedding, etc.) type setting. If I was to work for a company these days, first thing I'd do is find a company that I would actually want to work for. I'd research their sales, their employees, their products/services, their patents, their ability to expand, etc. Then I'd key in on either the boss, or a couple high ranking employees and investigate them. Find out all you can on them. Where do they like to hang out, what are their interests or hobbies. FarceBook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn are perfect depositories for that type of information. Seems everybody these days likes to brag about themselves and try to impress others. Once you've banked that information, then it's just a matter of you being in the right place at the right time and striking up a conversation and making yourself some new friends. From there it's just a matter of time before they ask you to show up for work.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much how I got every job. Then I started flying for a living.
 
Caramon13 said:
A pilot of course Nate... :)

Still working through the other "stuff" though. I got a call from a recruiter with a job doing XXX and I was sorta proud of myself in saying, "nope, not interested" instead of my usual, "Yeah that sounds like something I could do" reply. I need to learn how to say "no".
Click to expand...

It gets easier. Especially when idiots start pulling your 20 year tech resume from LinkedIn and asking if you want a job in another state installing fire alarms and suppression systems. (Last week for me.) Not that I couldn't or wouldn't do that job if I needed to, but it's funny. Recruiters can't read and know that if they throw enough poo at the wall, something will stick eventually.
 
nauga said:
I've never had to resort to stalking to get the job I wanted.

Nauga,
and his small community
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There were some good pointers in that post, but they went too far.
Company research is good. Even learning about the executives is good. But what was described was certainly "stalking". Not so good.

On the other hand, I give him more credit than I give to those that sit on the couch, apply for advertised jobs, and wait for the phone to ring.
 
It's not stalking by any means. It's called good old-fashioned research and choosing your own destiny. I've always chosen who I assimilate with, whether it be a company I want to work for, or people I want to hang out with. I've never had a miserable job. I've never had a douchebag for a boss. Every company and every boss I have ever worked for, I can get on the phone with right now and have a job tomorrow. How many here can say that!

Here's a tip for you guys looking for a job. You can tell more about a person in a social setting than you ever can in a workplace environment. If the boss is jovial, friendly, and kind hearted to those he associates with in a social setting, chances are he's going to be a pretty damn good guy to work for. I met one of my bosses in a diner. Every morning he'd always have coffee and breakfast with his top management team. I was working for another company at the time, but each morning I'd sit down and BS with them about the oilfield and what not, and let them know what was happening in my end of the business. It wasn't long after that he was offering me a job. I told my other boss that I have a chance to go into another side of the oil business and learn those technologies. He was cool with it and encouraged me to learn as much as I can while I was as young as I was. 30 years later, they're both still in business and I can call either one of them up and have a job tomorrow. Whenever I'd go back home and visit family, I always made it a point to visit with all my old bosses and catch up with them on what's been happening over the years. Plus, I'd always send them Christmas cards and they'd always do the same. I know their wives, their kids, and their brothers and sisters and have attended many funerals and weddings.

Moral of he story... never burn your bridges... as you may never know when you'll need to cross back over. ;)
 
Seeing a lot of good info here but the one problem I have run into and never found a solution to is this. The job I want usually requires 3 to 5 years of experience. How does one get that experience when one cannot get hired? Seems to be a recurring theme with everyone I have ever talked to about it. I have given up on it and I work a crappy, no-skill job now to get by paycheck to paycheck. Haven't flown in over a year either. Have given that up to.
 
flhrci said:
The job I want usually requires 3 to 5 years of experience. How does one get that experience when one cannot get hired?
Click to expand...
That's because you're looking for a J-O-B. It's all about the initiative and the willingness to learn something new. I never had one iota of experience in any job I've ever had. What I did have was the gusto to always learn something new. My boss that I met in the diner. I picked his brain every morning. He finally got tired of all my questions and told me to come to work for him and he'll show me what he does. It wasn't long after that I was running one of his rigs completing oil wells, and then later moved up to running the production side of his oil company. He's still one of the coolest guys I've ever worked for.
 
flhrci said:
Seeing a lot of good info here but the one problem I have run into and never found a solution to is this. The job I want usually requires 3 to 5 years of experience. How does one get that experience when one cannot get hired? Seems to be a recurring theme with everyone I have ever talked to about it. I have given up on it and I work a crappy, no-skill job now to get by paycheck to paycheck. Haven't flown in over a year either. Have given that up to.
Click to expand...

Experience can come in many forms. I don't know what position you seek, but you could try to intern or try to pick up some work part time in that field. Even if you did part time for a year or two, it can still show on your resume as 2 years experience. In spite of the stalking comments, knowing someone and getting a referral can really help, so if you have the opportunity to socialize with people in the field you want to be in, you should take advantage of that. Do so with the expectation of learning more about the field and making friends with similar interests, rather than expecting an immediate referral. In time, someone will help you out.
 
Ravioli said:
There used to be statistics [late 80s] like "a job search takes 2 months for every 10k of the salary" I doubt that's true now. I also doubt it was true then. I do still believe most jobs are filled before they are advertised.
Click to expand...

It's the opposite. The higher a job pays the more competitive it is on the hiring side. (Which is why it pays higher in the first place). Job openings that pay $200k+ are often open for years at a time.
 
flhrci said:
Seeing a lot of good info here but the one problem I have run into and never found a solution to is this. The job I want usually requires 3 to 5 years of experience. How does one get that experience when one cannot get hired? Seems to be a recurring theme with everyone I have ever talked to about it. I have given up on it and I work a crappy, no-skill job now to get by paycheck to paycheck. Haven't flown in over a year either. Have given that up to.
Click to expand...
You are right. That is a recurring theme ever since people started moving off the family farms. Except that many of those ex-farmers did have certain skills, particularly at fixing things.

These days though, it is probably worse than ever. I pin one reason on minimum wage laws and low teen employment. I worked from the day I turned 15. By time I graduated college, I had substantial work experience to back up my education.

In a dozen years, you will be holding a job that young kids will want, but they won't have the experience you have since acquired.

Moral of the story; hang in there.
 
Zeldman said:
This is pretty much how I got every job. Then I started flying for a living.
Click to expand...

So how did you get into that Billy? Before I started down the road of mass applications I looked into all kinds of jobs flying, couldn't find a thing.

Granted I only have my commercial/instrument ASEL and about 320 hours :).
 
Caramon13 said:
So how did you get into that Billy? Before I started down the road of mass applications I looked into all kinds of jobs flying, couldn't find a thing.

Granted I only have my commercial/instrument ASEL and about 320 hours :).
Click to expand...

Before I started flying, almost every job I had I knew someone. I think it is called making contacts now, back then it was the good ol' boy system. Most of those jobs were in auto racing, which like aviation is a small, tight knit industry.

When I started flying, like many others I started as a flight instructor. I did that for 18 months then flooded Alaska with my resume. I got some real nice rejection letters, remember when companies were nice enough to do that? Anyway, after the first rounds of rejection I re-worded my resume. Then one week I started getting calls. Granted the calls were coming from Alaska and there was a real need for pilots that would fly a 207 in all kinds of weather for low pay with bad living conditions, but that is how I started my flying career.

I had around 1000 hours at that time. 500 hours is the minimum for Pt 135 VFR. Anything less and you are pretty much relegated to flight instruction, flying banners, flying jumpers, etc:,...

Good luck to ya.... patience is the name and keep trying, never give up.
 
Zeldman said:
Before I started flying, almost every job I had I knew someone. I think it is called making contacts now, back then it was the good ol' boy system. Most of those jobs were in auto racing, which like aviation is a small, tight knit industry.

When I started flying, like many others I started as a flight instructor. I did that for 18 months then flooded Alaska with my resume. I got some real nice rejection letters, remember when companies were nice enough to do that? Anyway, after the first rounds of rejection I re-worded my resume. Then one week I started getting calls. Granted the calls were coming from Alaska and there was a real need for pilots that would fly a 207 in all kinds of weather for low pay with bad living conditions, but that is how I started my flying career.

I had around 1000 hours at that time. 500 hours is the minimum for Pt 135 VFR. Anything less and you are pretty much relegated to flight instruction, flying banners, flying jumpers, etc:,...

Good luck to ya.... patience is the name and keep trying, never give up.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I started down the road for CFI, but dropped it. Maybe I'll give it another look. Seems like that is a pretty easy way to rack up hours. I don't know many people who went right into flying commercially doing something other than being a CFI right out of their commercial.

Appreciate the feedback.
 
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