[N/A] Dental implants

[Unregistered]

I am missing a tooth due to bone loss from an infection. Bone had been grafted to replace it, and I am currently on track to get an implant once the bone has sufficiently healed.

In a conversation with an old retired dentist, of whom has an opinion I highly respect, he thinks implants are very bad ideas, rationale being a sufficient seal cannot be formed between the tooth and the gum to keep bacteria out. This is causing me to think twice. I really don't want to get a bridge, as that involves crowning two perfectly good teeth (and that could go South as well, it was a bad crown that led to the tooth loss) so I am at a loss as to what to do. I can't find much in the way of apparently unbiased information on implants - i.e. risks and downsides.

Anybody have experience with implants?

 

[ejensen]

I have one very similar done a few years ago. Root canal failed. Took awhile for the graft to fill in but no issues since. Was at the dentist today and I have to tell them it's there if they don't look at the x-ray. Neat that the post can be used as a bridge anchor later on.

 

[EdFred]

I've had an implant (#10) in for almost 18 years without any issue of infection or problems.

 

[KLRDMD]

I am missing a tooth due to bone loss from an infection. Bone had been grafted to replace it, and I am currently on track to get an implant once the bone has sufficiently healed. In a conversation with an old retired dentist, of whom has an opinion I highly respect, he thinks implants are very bad ideas, rationale being a sufficient seal cannot be formed between the tooth and the gum to keep bacteria out.

Your retired dentist friend is wrong.

 

[1600vw]

I am going through this same thing. I lost a tooth due to my bone disease and will be loosing more. They are just braking. Anyway I asked about an implant. I was told 4 grand for one implant. This just can not be correct.
What are others paying for this work?

 

[nddons]

I've had an implant (#10) in for almost 18 years without any issue of infection or problems.

#10 for me has well. . I've had it for 12 years. Zero problems.

 

[ChrisK]

I am going through this same thing. I lost a tooth due to my bone disease and will be loosing more. They are just braking. Anyway I asked about an implant. I was told 4 grand for one implant. This just can not be correct.
What are others paying for this work?

That is about right. Can be higher or lower due to complexity of the graft. Mine was a little higher.

 

[flyingron]

I have matching implants on the #3 and #14. I've had no problem. I don't know why the crown on an implant is much different from the many other options: bridges, partials, etc... In practice, the fit between the crown and the gum is quite good. Oh maybe once and a while I'll get something stringy caught in there, but it's extremely rare. I'm no more likely to get food stuck into there than with between my natural teeth.

Even for the four months I had only the healing abutment in place, there was no sign of any problems.

 

[MikeS]

> "I have one very similar done a few years ago. Root canal failed."

That's what root canals do, sooner or later. Removing the blood supply from the tooth turns it into a brittle piece of dead bone-like material which eventually fractures. If not in the "bite" it may last quite a while. If stressed with normal chewing and biting, it won't last long. At that point it has to be extracted. What you do next is put in some bone grafting material, let it integrate, then drill a hole in it and install an anchor bolt called a dental implant. They cost about $100. Blueskybio is a good source but there are many others. Just for fun, go look and see what these things actually cost and then think about what that dentist charges you for installation - something which takes all of about 15 minutes. Really . . . no joke.

https://blueskybio.com/store/

At least this (installing an implant) is what one should do. Many irresponsible and greedy dentists will try and talk you into a bridge or other mouth contraption that will compromise some of your remaining intact teeth. That bridge or other contraption will also eventually fail, just like the root canals. Dentists don't advertise that root canals, bridges & other mouth contraptions are temporary fixes. They will encourage you to think, after spending that much money, that you have invested in something permanent. If you die before they fail then I guess you could call them permanent. If you live a while, they'll fail. They are temporary fixes and do a lot of damage to your other teeth and to your wallet before they do.

Implants, as long as you take care of your gums, are permanent solutions. If a tooth is at the point of needing a root canal, it needs to be extracted and the implant process started.

Cost if done in Mexico is about $800 which includes the crown.

I wrote about this not long after joining POA . . . I'll see if I can provide a link to my posting.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1698452#post1698452

I haven't re-read it so, knowing me, it was probably too wordy but the essential information was/is there if you're willing to wade through it.

You mention cost . . . before I found my dental surgeon in Tijuana I was paying $1800 per implant and another $1200 for the crown and miscellaneous procedures related to the process (x-rays, etc.) So $3K per tooth, mas o menos.

Your retired dentist is correct in that the seal between gum and crown (called a "margin") can be broken and bacteria get underneath the crown, however this is just as true with all other crowns. Everything changes with time, including margins. With a root canal you will have dead bone-like material underneath the crown which bacteria will enjoy eating. With an implant, you have titanium underneath the crown. Bacteria don't enjoy titanium nearly as much as dead bone-like material. So they don't thrive. Good mouth hygiene is important in either case, i.e., Listerine and a mouth irrigator (waterpik) plus brushing to stimulate the gums.

 

[LandSickness]

I am going through this same thing. I lost a tooth due to my bone disease and will be loosing more. They are just braking. Anyway I asked about an implant. I was told 4 grand for one implant. This just can not be correct.
What are others paying for this work?

Two implants: $8900
I hear it's cheaper in South America.

 

[Skip Miller]

I have an implant for my right upper incisor. It was done about 6 years back and I have forgotten the tooth number. No problems ever. Glad I had it done. Oh, I needed s bone graft too. Pay up for a Dentist who has done a lot of these implants...

edit: I just came back to this thread, the tooth number is #8, right in front. 20 or so years ago, I had a cavity on the lingual side of #8, above the gum line (on an upper tooth). The filling failed over time, and the X-rays taken in subsequent visits to the dentist didn't show that area of the tooth. I moved and changed dentists, and then the new dentist found that the "tooth was dead and some day soon it will just snap off as you are eating. Don't worry you won't feel it the tooth is dead."

I didn't wait for the snap as the area around the tooth began a low intensity but continuous ache. I was planning a trip to Europe to meet the in-laws for the first time. Long story shorter, I had the tooth removed, wore a "flipper", had a bone graft to build up the buccal ridge, then implant and crown. The process took well over a year.

Years later I am very satisfied. Tooth #8 is now rock solid, whereas I can grab on to other teeth and wiggle them slightly.

Expensive, time consuming, difficult at times (I hated that flipper), and, in the end, very worthwhile.

 

[rbridges]

Implants integrate directly with bone instead of using a periodontal ligament. This forms a bond that is "permanent." The gingiva may form a hemidesmosome attachment similar to natural teeth. As long as you have good oral hygiene and the implant is loaded properly, it will likely outlast you. I would put an implant up against a crown or bridge any time. Ask your dentist friend what the average life span of a bridge is. I read hundreds of research articles during my residency, and I've literally placed thousands of implants over the past 18 years. just make sure you go to someone competent.

 

[Unregistered]

OP here. Thanks for the feedback. This helps me a lot with my decision. I do have one remaining question though, what is the downside of doing nothing? Chewing is made a little more difficult yes but it's not limiting either. I have heard that the adjacent teeth can migrate inward, is that a fact?

 

[nddons]

OP here. Thanks for the feedback. This helps me a lot with my decision. I do have one remaining question though, what is the downside of doing nothing? Chewing is made a little more difficult yes but it's not limiting either. I have heard that the adjacent teeth can migrate inward, is that a fact?

Well, dentures are a possibility, but I wouldn't recommend it.

In fact, since I had the#10 tooth replaced with an implant (the tooth next to one of your two front teeth) they gave me a single-tooth denture (known for some reason as a "flipper") to put in place during the 4-5 month period where the bone is grafting to the implant before the crown is put in place. It was horrible and uncomfortable, and I stopped using it and just looked like a redneck for a few months until I got my crown.

I vowed I would take good care of my teeth, and would accept a future implant if it's ever necessary.

 

[flyingron]

Yes, it can cause issues with the adjoining teeth. Presuming the infection has passed, the intervening time may help in restoration of the socket so that the eventual implant will be easier.

 

[rbridges]

OP here. Thanks for the feedback. This helps me a lot with my decision. I do have one remaining question though, what is the downside of doing nothing? Chewing is made a little more difficult yes but it's not limiting either. I have heard that the adjacent teeth can migrate inward, is that a fact?

Esthetics aside, leaving an edentulous space can result in shifting and tipping of the adjacent teeth. Tipping and supraeruption (opposing tooth erupting higher) can cause issues with hygiene which leads to potential issues with decay and periodontal disease.

Obviously not replacing the tooth won't shorten your life. There are a bunch of old toothless people in Georgia, but I would definitely recommend replacing it if you have the means.

 

[EdFred]

Well, dentures are a possibility, but I wouldn't recommend it.

In fact, since I had the#10 tooth replaced with an implant (the tooth next to one of your two front teeth) they gave me a single-tooth denture (known for some reason as a "flipper") to put in place during the 4-5 month period where the bone is grafting to the implant before the crown is put in place. It was horrible and uncomfortable, and I stopped using it and just looked like a redneck for a few months until I got my crown.

I vowed I would take good care of my teeth, and would accept a future implant if it's ever necessary.

I had the same thing. I could not wear it. I just said I played hockey, instead. Though it was the result of playing indoor football, and getting tackled into some stairs many years prior that was the need for the implant after the quick fix broke, and not my dental habits.

 

[MikeS]

OP here. Thanks for the feedback. This helps me a lot with my decision. I do have one remaining question though, what is the downside of doing nothing? Chewing is made a little more difficult yes but it's not limiting either. I have heard that the adjacent teeth can migrate inward, is that a fact?

They can and will change position over time, whether it's "migrating inward" is a question of just what you mean by that. The tooth opposite (up or down) - the tooth that "opposes" the missing one, will extend inward toward the center of your mouth. It is looking for it's "mate". It wants a biting surface to oppose it. Not finding one, it will go looking. It gets extended. Takes a year or two to notice. There's a term for it which I'm too lazy to look up. It's not a good thing. You'll eventually lose that tooth.

I had an old landlord who had dentures but only put them in when going "out." At home he just used his gums and could eat anything. They get tough and can be as good as teeth as far as function goes - or so it seemed to me in watching him. Looks like hell of course, but when you're 87 or older who cares. He didn't. Except when going to church or shopping - he'd put his dentures in for that.

Keeping your teeth is an ongoing, expensive chore unless you are genetically endowed with indestructible teeth. Some people are. I manage mine by going to Mexico since it's convenient for me. If you're a long way away from the border it could be a real hassle. Or really, really expensive depending on how many teeth you have had root canals on. They're all going to eventually fail, so keep that in mind.

Doing it all over again I'd probably just let the the teeth go and use dentures when in public. Sure a lot less hassle than replacing them one by one, year by year. If I didn't live near the border I think I'd either go my old landlord's route or go live in Mexico or Thailand or India or lots of places and get everything done over a couple of years.

If you can afford it just find a fair and honest and competent dentist locally and take extra good care of the teeth you have left. You should be able to get everything done, implant, crown, x-rays and everything, for 3K per tooth. Plus extraction of the old root whatever that amounts to. My dentist charges $30.

Not fun. But it's nice having teeth.

I've got a missing one right in front, an old root canal & crown that finally failed and I too have a "flipper" while the allograph is integrating. At my age it takes five or six months. I don't wear my flipper, although I tried. It hiurts after a day or two and could actually damage the integrating bone if I were to bite down too hard on something. So I leave it out and also run around like a redneck. I'll put it in for special occasions but normally I feel a lot better without it in my mouth.

 

[nddons]

I had the same thing. I could not wear it. I just said I played hockey, instead. Though it was the result of playing indoor football, and getting tackled into some stairs many years prior that was the need for the implant after the quick fix broke, and not my dental habits.

I had a similar story. High school wrestling - my opponent popped his head up, and I broke my two front teeth. They put big silver caps on to save them (this was about 1975) and it worked, but left me with two chipped teeth. 30 years later, a dentist found resorption in #10, and concluded it was likely caused by trauma from my wrestling injury.

They did a root canal, which was tons of fun, but that didn't help. I should have just skipped that and gone straight to the implant.

 

[paflyer]

That is about right. Can be higher or lower due to complexity of the graft. Mine was a little higher.

Concur. There's the "implant" and then there's the crown. Two separate phases. Oral surgeon for implant, regular dentist can do the crown.

 

[flyingron]

Concur. There's the "implant" and then there's the crown. Two separate phases. Oral surgeon for implant, regular dentist can do the crown.

Yep, fortunately for me the independent oral surgeon practice is next door to my dentist. After the implant was healed was in the surgeon gave me the pieces that the crown mounts to and I took them next door to my regular dentist of 25+ years and he took some molds and I came back in a week or two.

Some of the dentists in the area now have some fancier scanner/robot thing that can clone crowns from existing teeth while you wait. My doc's a bit old school however.

 

[kcsharp00]

I didn't read all the post so this could be a repeat. Sorry if it is.

Today's implant success rates are roughly 95%. If you choose to do nothing you can expect forward migration of the tooth behind where the missing one is (mesial drift) and supra-eruption of the tooth that opposes the missing one. Teeth constantly are moving to try and stay in contact with each other, this can become a problem if you wait to try and restore later.

Just a simplified answer from a 3rd year dental student.

 

[Vf6cruiser]

After retiring and mistakenly buying the worthless $20 a month "insurance" and getting fleeced by a beautiful blonde dentist for $7,500 I too headed south to Mexico. Los Algodones to be exact, by Yuma. Before I went south I was quoted $2,500 for two crowns. Went to Algodones and got SIX crowns for $1,140.....all done in two days. Yes its a typical dirt ball town, but they have 300+ dental offices there and most do good work. The owner of the one I went to had studied at Harvard and does the implants.

 

[Lindberg]

Yeah, they all got degrees from Harvard and then decided to move down to ****hole towns in Mexico. The dental and medical work down there may be cheaper, but when something goes wrong, it will be "no es mi problema."

I had a friend who went to Venezuela for LASIK. It was the whole US-trained-doctor-using-state-of-the-art-equipment-that-the-FDA-hasn't-gotten-around-to-approving thing. The friend's BIL had used this guy and was very happy. Saved about $2k all in, and the Venezuelan doc even gave my friend the name of a local doc (head of ophthalmology at the local hospital) who was his "buddy" and would do any necessary follow-up after the first week when he came home.

Well, upon coming home, my friend's flap came lose. No problem says he, I'll just call up the local doc. The local doc says he's never met the Venezuelan doc and he is tired of him giving people his name. He says he'll see my friend, but only because it is an emergency. Turns out the flap was loose and infected and my friend was at risk of losing his sight. I'm glad I paid the extra $2k.

 

[Vf6cruiser]

Yeah, they all got degrees from Harvard and then decided to move down to ****hole towns in Mexico. The dental and medical work down there may be cheaper, but when something goes wrong, it will be "no es mi problema."

I had a friend who went to Venezuela for LASIK. It was the whole US-trained-doctor-using-state-of-the-art-equipment-that-the-FDA-hasn't-gotten-around-to-approving thing. The friend's BIL had used this guy and was very happy. Saved about $2k all in, and the Venezuelan doc even gave my friend the name of a local doc (head of ophthalmology at the local hospital) who was his "buddy" and would do any necessary follow-up after the first week when he came home.

Well, upon coming home, my friend's flap came lose. No problem says he, I'll just call up the local doc. The local doc says he's never met the Venezuelan doc and he is tired of him giving people his name. He says he'll see my friend, but only because it is an emergency. Turns out the flap was loose and infected and my friend was at risk of losing his sight. I'm glad I paid the extra $2k.

I'm not sure how we went to Venezuela for Lasik here......but all the shops in this border town exist on word of mouth recommendations and they all know it. When I was down there for crowns the waiting room had people from Texas, Canada, and Florida. One guy was in there getting 11 implants corrected that were screwed up by another dentist in Arizona. This shop has an excellent reputation from other people and was exactly as advertised for me as well. We are all free to pay the "$2K" but in fact it doesn't guarantee anything any better. I'm done getting fleeced in the Peoples Republic of Kaleefornia................

 

[Toothless OP]

OP here, anyway, I went with the implant. They placed the implant, and I'm just waiting for the healing portion for the crown to get placed. It really was no big deal. I just couldn't be convinced that putting two other teeth at risk by crowning them for a bridge is better than an implant. Thanks all for the advice.

 

[EdFred]

OP here, anyway, I went with the implant. They placed the implant, and I'm just waiting for the healing portion for the crown to get placed. It really was no big deal. I just couldn't be convinced that putting two other teeth at risk by crowning them for a bridge is better than an implant. Thanks all for the advice.

How long for the healing portion? Mine was something like 4-6 months.

 

[Oh P]

How long for the healing portion? Mine was something like 4-6 months.

The initial healing was about nine months but I dragged out the process. The crown will be installed in four months.

 

[flyingron]

I waited four months on the second implant before fitting the crown.

On my first implant, due to certain complications, it took four months for the socket restoration after extracting the bad tooth before they could put the implant in. Then four months after that for the crown.

 

[flyingriki]

I did two in three trips to Cost Rica. Didn't need to do 3 trips but couldn't wait a few days for the crowns so just went back down to get in some sun last weekend.
Savings paid for the trips. Used Meza Dental. Very good office, well known and good reviews.
http://www.mezadentalcare.com/pages/dental-implant-cost
http://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/hospital/meza-dental-care-clinic

Stay away from anyone that wants to do them in less than 2 or 3 steps. Some places advertise one day service - this is just nuts! Things must heal in between.
I had the bone graft done at home and let it heal for 8 months. Then the implant and let it go for several months then the crown.

 

[MikeS]

When we're young an extracted root will "fill in" over six months or so, but those days are over for me. Every implant I get I first put in an allograph (bone graft - just bone material that gets put into the vacancy then the gum sewed up, sometimes with a protective membrane to protect the integrating bone. I was buying my own allographs online and taking them down to my dentist in TJ but when I changed suppliers (first one got shut down) they started taking longer to integrate so I went with dentist's suggestion to use his synthetic bone material. Those are integrating quite nicely, about four months. Then another four months to let the implant integrate. It's a nine month process to get an implant, little less, little more. Depends on how healthy you are.

Couldn't agree more with flyingriki in post just above. There's no such thing as a one-day implant or one-week implant or whatever . . . . I see them advertised. Either they use that gimmick to get you in the door so they can tell you what they really need to do . . . or they could possibly find some bone, drill a hole and stick an implant and crown on it and send you out the door. I can't imagine they would stay in business very long.

There's really no way around the time factor. But you can sure get away from the incredible prices. Mexico has good dentists and dental surgeons. My implants cost me $850 including the allograph and crown, x-rays - all of it. No nickle and dimeing. I'm finally, after eight months, getting a top front tooth with a crown on it next month . . . it'll be nice to have people that don't know me not immediately assume I live in a culvert or am a meth addict. I never could wear that flipper and for almost eight months now I notice people often seem to feel sorry for me because I can't afford to take care of my teeth. If I care about who it is I'll explain what's going on. I felt self-conscious about it at first since it's such a glaringly obvious missing tooth . . . but for a long time now I give it no thought at all. It's annoying though. I've spent a fortune on my teeth over my lifetime and here I am at 70, looking toothless.

 

[kentucky dentist]

I do implants with crown for 2150. No need for mexico come to Kentucky...