My new (to me) Tiger

BillG

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
301
Location
Massachusetts
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Display name:
Bill Greenberg
I didn't want to hijack the other thread but I'm always happy to talk about myself (just ask anyone around me). My new Tiger has been great. It took about an hour of pattern work a couple of weeks ago to finally get the landings figured out - it's quite a bit different than my Skyhawk of course! I'm now the fastest plane around which I'm still getting used to (the other Skyhawks and Pipers are behind me now when we fly out to lunch instead of me being at the back of the pack!) Opening the canopy is WAY cool but I have a static leak that I haven't tracked down yet, so with the canopy open I pretty much lose my airspeed and altitude. With the canopy closed it's definitely hotter in there than the Skyhawk, which my kids don't like (and they're reluctant flyers anyway). I love the low panel - I don't feel like a little kid sitting in a grownup vehicle any more (I'm only 5'6"). The Tiger is much more responsive than the Skyhawk, which has its pros and cons. You feel the bumps more in the Tiger (my girlfriend is NOT loving that) and it takes a bit more work to maintain heading and altitude. But it's more fun to fly than the Skyhawk of course. I haven't actually gone anywhere yet, but I did get a couple of mountain bikes in the back and plan on going to Cape Cod, the islands, Block Island, etc, with the bikes - being able to lower the backseats to make the plane a mini-SUV is such a great design!

The new engine and propeller have been great and the old propeller looks very cool hanging above the fireplace in my living room.

My tie-down neighbor, Jeff Simon, yesterday ripped out most of my old interior and gave me some rather disgusting red/brown seats in return. I can live with those for a few weeks though, because when he comes back he's bringing my old seats completely redone in a very nice light gray leather. I need to order new carpeting from Airtex to go along with the new seats and side panels.

On Monday I'm bringing the plane into The Radio Shop in Worcester to have a Garmin 430 and PS Engineering PMA 7000 installed, replacing the current Narco 120, 121, and Apollo loran. The Narco Mark 12D will remain as my #2 Nav/Com.

Whew - I think that's about it. That's certainly all the money that's left! ;) Over the winter I'll be painting my plane, too, and changing the N-number if I can figure out a good new number with my initials in it (WG).
 
Nice write up Bill. One curious comment about feeling turbulence in the Tiger. I find I feel turbulence less in the Tiger, maybe due to its higher wing loading than the 172's and Cherokee/Warrior/Archers I used to fly. The Tiger does have quicker responsiveness, but maintaining heading and altitude is easy. Maybe it was my PFP checkout CFI, but I got used to it very quickly. Before I had the Tiger, I owned a Cherokee 140 and the Tiger feels a lot more stable to me than that plane.

The rest of your comments are consistant with my experience in the Tiger.
 
Anthony said:
Nice write up Bill. One curious comment about feeling turbulence in the Tiger. I find I feel turbulence less in the Tiger, maybe due to its higher wing loading than the 172's and Cherokee/Warrior/Archers I used to fly. The Tiger does have quicker responsiveness, but maintaining heading and altitude is easy. Maybe it was my PFP checkout CFI, but I got used to it very quickly. Before I had the Tiger, I owned a Cherokee 140 and the Tiger feels a lot more stable to me than that plane.

The rest of your comments are consistant with my experience in the Tiger.

Turbulence in the Tiger seemed sharper to me, less floaty and more of a whack. Then again, maybe the days were just bumpier than some I've flown in the Skyhawk :)
 
Yeah, Joe, that's what I was thinking - it's hard to really compare unless you're flying them both at the same time! I got very comfortable with the Tiger very quickly - then it took an hour of solid patterns to get the landings consistent. I LIKE it! :)
 
I would love to give a Tiger a try. Alas, there are limited aircraft available for rent in my area, and a Tiger is not among them. Were Narco radios standard equipment for Tigers at one time?
 
HuskerMedic said:
Were Narco radios standard equipment for Tigers at one time?

A lot of the 70's era Tigers had Narco radios, it was the less expensive way to go as compared to Collins.

Len
 
Len Lanetti said:
A lot of the 70's era Tigers had Narco radios, it was the less expensive way to go as compared to Collins.

Len

I thought they had given a choice between Narco and King? Many were equipped with Narco, but as time passes, you see panels being upgraded with other radios like Garmin and King.
 
Most of the Tigers I saw advertised had Narco radios (often referred to as Narcrap). Mine won't for much longer - I dropped it off at The Radio Shop yesterday and should get it back sometime next week. Now I have to figure out how to pay for it... :)
 
BillG said:
Most of the Tigers I saw advertised had Narco radios (often referred to as Narcrap). Mine won't for much longer - I dropped it off at The Radio Shop yesterday and should get it back sometime next week. Now I have to figure out how to pay for it... :)

Bill. That's great news. I think the Narco stuff was fine in its day, but now that most of it in our Tigers is pushing 30 years old, its time to replace them. The only Narco left in my panel is the Transponder which works great and is a newer model and the self contained VOR (I forget the model) which also works fine.
 
I'm keeping the Narco AT150R transponder and the Narco Mark 12D NAV/COM will become my #2 radio. I'm definitely looking forward to getting the Garmin 430 and PMA7000 audio panel! I can't wait to get my plane back - it's been gone 23 hours now! I wonder if I'll keep Anywhere Map once I have the Garmin 430...? I've heard of people utilizing both.
 
BillG said:
I'm keeping the Narco AT150R transponder...
Narco now has a slide-in "plug & play" replacement digital transponder for the AT-50/150 series. See http://www.narco-avionics.com/at165.htm for details. It seems to match all the features of the Garmin 327 plus (see the picture) a wide space between the "IDENT" and "VFR" buttons -- a real "must" for those of us who fly through the ADIZ and/or FRZ.
 
Oooh - very nice. But I think I'm spending (more than) enough money now.
 
Bill,

What power setting do you normally run and what TAS are you getting? At optimum altitude which is basically pattern altitude out here (7K - 8K ft), I run 65% - 70% power and see 130 - 133 KTAS. My Tiger has the red rudder cap mod, and prop spinner gap seal, but I still have the two steps and the huge ADF antenna on the belly. I will eventually loose the ADF antenna and either shorten or remove the steps entirely and hopefully gain a few knots.
 
Anthony, I haven't tracked it very closely yet but I try to maintain around 75% power and think I'm seeing close to (but not quite) 140 knots TAS. I don't have any speed mods though (rudder cap, step removal, gap seal, etc). Yet. And I do have an old ADF antenna on the belly which I need to remove.
 
BillG said:
Anthony, I haven't tracked it very closely yet but I try to maintain around 75% power and think I'm seeing close to (but not quite) 140 knots TAS. I don't have any speed mods though (rudder cap, step removal, gap seal, etc). Yet. And I do have an old ADF antenna on the belly which I need to remove.
If you're seeing 140 KTAS, you're likely running more than 75% power -- your prop just won't screw you through the air that fast at the RPM's for that power setting (it's all about RPM and prop pitch). Keep in mind that those 30-year-old mechanical tachs tend to lose their responsiveness with age (keep those dirty minds out of this) and tend to read low -- often 100-200 RPM low. If so, you may be pulling a lot more than 75% power. I strongly recommend crosschecking your fuel usage with the book (see if you aren't burning 4-6% more than book) and getting a strobe tach check (available free at the AYA convention).
 
Ron Levy said:
If you're seeing 140 KTAS, you're likely running more than 75% power -- your prop just won't screw you through the air that fast at the RPM's for that power setting (it's all about RPM and prop pitch). Keep in mind that those 30-year-old mechanical tachs tend to lose their responsiveness with age (keep those dirty minds out of this) and tend to read low -- often 100-200 RPM low.

I don't usally run 75%, but I'm probably seeing 135 KTAS max at that power setting. I don't gain that much speed with the extra 5% power. I have the Horizon Digital Tach which is accurate and once you get used to reading the actual numbers instead of a guage, its great. I also have the 63 in. pitch Senesenich "cruise" prop which will red line in cruise if I let it.
 
My fuel flow has been in the 10-11 gal range. According to http://www.tunelab-world.com/rpmsound.html my tach is reasonably accurate, but I don't know how accurate that program is (it samples the sound of the engine using a Pocket PC or laptop). I need to pay closer attention to everything and report back in a couple of weeks when I get my plane back. I have a brand new 63" Sensenich prop, too.
 
BillG said:
My fuel flow has been in the 10-11 gal range.

That's great Bill. I don't have my POH handy, but that's good fuel consumption.

Ron. Bill does have a new engine. IIRC book performance at 75% at 8,000 ft. is 139 knots at 10.5 GPH. Granted, our planes are pushing 30 years old, and book performance is somewhat optimistic. Maybe he's just lucky?
 
Oh, I bet my ASI isn't all that accurate either. The TAS dial certainly isn't, and allows for a bit of fudging so I can see what I want to see. I'll have to some some GPS ground speed/wind tests when I get the plane back too. I was kinda hoping that the new engine and prop were helping with the airspeed but I know you can't get around physics...
 
Anthony said:
Ron. Bill does have a new engine. IIRC book performance at 75% at 8,000 ft. is 139 knots at 10.5 GPH. Granted, our planes are pushing 30 years old, and book performance is somewhat optimistic. Maybe he's just lucky?
I've got a new engine, too (well, it's got 70 SMOH now, but performance hasn't changed any), and it's Lycon ported and flowmatched. With my stock McCauley 63-pitch prop, I'm truing 130-135 KTAS on 10.0 gph (ASI checked with REA program mentioned in other post). The only thing I'm not sure of is the tach, but the fuel flow (actual usage, not indicated) pretty well matches up with a tad under 75%. FWIW, the theoretical max speed on this prop is 139.8 KTAS at redline RPM (2700).
 
Hey Ron, is that a 76" prop? What are the static RPM limits with 180hp engines on the Grummans?

I'm curious because I checked my tach in my Cherokee 180 and after the big sit waiting for the engine overhaul, it is reading way too high. I checked it with an optical tach checker and my tach is off, but I'm still able to exceed static RPM limits with my 76" 60-pitch prop and the newly overhauled engine. So I'm curious what the static RPM's are like with a 63. (probably more pitch than I want, I'm thinking more like 61-62).
 
larrysb said:
Hey Ron, is that a 76" prop?
No, the stock (1975-79 models) McCauley prop is a 75" diameter; the Sensenich (STC'd for early Tigers, standard on AG-5B's) prop is 76".

What are the static RPM limits with 180hp engines on the Grummans?
I've got those at home and will post later.

I'm curious because I checked my tach in my Cherokee 180 and after the big sit waiting for the engine overhaul, it is reading way too high. I checked it with an optical tach checker and my tach is off, but I'm still able to exceed static RPM limits with my 76" 60-pitch prop and the newly overhauled engine. So I'm curious what the static RPM's are like with a 63. (probably more pitch than I want, I'm thinking more like 61-62).
The prop pitch limits for your PA28-180 are listed in the Type Certificate Data Sheet for your plane if not in the POH/AFM. They should also be in the maintenance manual for your plane, a copy of which every aircraft owner should have in the hangar.
 
The Static RPM on the Tiger's original McCauley prop are 2175 - 2325 RPM. I don't know what it is with the Sensenich 63 in. pitch like I have, as its not listed in the AG-5B's TCDS where the Sensenich came standard.
 
...AND, now that I'm home, the answer for the static RPM ranges with the 76"-diameter Sensenich props on the Tiger (AA-5B or AG-5B) is, by pitch setting:

61" 2100-2275

63" 2050-2225

65" 2000-2175
 
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