My favorite gas stop no more...

steingar

steingar

Taxi to Parking
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steingar
Finally got to take the Cherokee up for something other than a run to Charleston. Thought I'd just fly over to the neighboring airport, shake the rust off a bit before the Show, and grab some cheap gas. The neighboring airport is now self serve, the FBO was closed, and the gas price was only 30 cents cheaper than my home drome. Can't blame them for any of it, but it is nevertheless a bit sad.
 
steingar said:
Finally got to take the Cherokee up for something other than a run to Charleston. Thought I'd just fly over to the neighboring airport, shake the rust off a bit before the Show, and grab some cheap gas. The neighboring airport is now self serve, the FBO was closed, and the gas price was only 30 cents cheaper than my home drome. Can't blame them for any of it, but it is nevertheless a bit sad.
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With GA flying down 50% (or more), this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't know about you guys, but if *my* business dropped 50%, I might be able to last, oh, six months or so? Our FBO's business has been down that much since mid-winter. So have many of the surrounding airports.

You do the math.

:(

Get out there and fly, ladies and gents -- or you won't have any airports left to fly *to*...
 
Can't disagree. While gas costs are up they're still not the major part of the equation. If I'm going to spend all that on hangar, insurance, maintenance etc... I'm going to fly the thing and to hell with gas cost. My problems this year are more wx related.
 
steingar said:
Can't disagree. While gas costs are up they're still not the major part of the equation. If I'm going to spend all that on hangar, insurance, maintenance etc... I'm going to fly the thing and to hell with gas cost. My problems this year are more wx related.
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I think what people are missing is that it's not just the cost of avgas that has pilots hog-tied. It's the cost of filling their family Suburban (that now costs $90 to fill) and the cost of heating their home (that's gone up 40%).

If you're spending $100 more per week on energy costs, you simply may not have the extra $5K per year it takes to fuel the family airplane. Thus, it sits in the hangar.

THAT is what's killing personal flying this year, IMHO.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I think what people are missing is that it's not just the cost of avgas that has pilots hog-tied. It's the cost of filling their family Suburban (that now costs $90 to fill) and the cost of heating their home (that's gone up 40%).

If you're spending $100 more per week on energy costs, you simply may not have the extra $5K per year it takes to fuel the family airplane. Thus, it sits in the hangar.

THAT is what's killing personal flying this year, IMHO.
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It's sure knocked the socks off my pleasure flying! :(
 
Fuel costs may seem high right now, but as people get used to the price adjustment, it will be less of an issue. I'm spending about $3000/year more compared to when the price was $3.5/g a few years ago. Granted, that's not nothing, but compared to flying costs overall, it's really not that significant.

-Felix
 
I think the fuel cost is killing me as a CFI to. I jsut got my CFI in April and had been planning on working full-time. Instead, I have only one reliable student that has come back for more and am working a part-time job which just isn't doing it. Financial disaster is looming and is less than a month away.

You aircraft owners don't want any more training cause it costs too much and people get sticker shock when they find out how much it costs to learn to fly.

Too bad flying is just a luxury, or things might be different.

Life sucks. Looking for a real CFI job.

David
 
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flhrci said:
You aircraft owners don't want any more training cause it costs too much
David
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Ummm, David, I don't want to sound like a smart butt, but every time I go for the BFR, the CFI is a young guy. Often very young, compared to me, and invariably I wind up teaching HIM before it's over with. Not bragging. To the contrary, it always pleases me to learn something new and I really wish those kids could show me something. The young ones I encounter just don't have the experience. Next time, I'm going to Kenny or Dan. Bet they can teach me something! :yes:
 
2256Q said:
Ummm, David, I don't want to sound like a smart butt, but every time I go for the BFR, the CFI is a young guy. Often very young, compared to me, and invariably I wind up teaching HIM before it's over with. Not bragging. To the contrary, it always pleases me to learn something new and I really wish those kids could show me something. The young ones I encounter just don't have the experience. Next time, I'm going to Kenny or Dan. Bet they can teach me something! :yes:
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I really don't think age has anything to do with it.

My experience is the opposite of yours. The 2 CFIs I've flown with over the last two years are both almost twice my age. They've got the basics covered and are very good at it, but when it comes to issues that are important to me as a X/C person, such as weather forecasts beyond FAs and TAFs, or engine management, I get nothing but blank stares.

-Felix
 
felix i bet those old farts didnt show you the finer points of a nice low pass? :)

Ray, call me up at BFR time, id love to see how the 411 compares.
 
tonycondon said:
felix i bet those old farts didnt show you the finer points of a nice low pass? :)
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Nope, that's what Gaston's is for :yes:

On a side note, I find low altitude maneuvering at high speeds to be challenging in my plane. At 170 KIAS, the controls do become quite heavy when you're trying to do a substantial pitch/roll change, to the point where I need both hands. Maybe I need to work out more :dunno:

-Felix

PS: Speaking of BFRs, mine is coming up soon. Not looking forward to that ...
 
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sba55 said:
PS: Speaking of BFRs, mine is coming up soon. Not looking forward to that ...
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just come out here in the Bo, we'll have fun and learn something along the way.
 
tonycondon said:
Ray, call me up at BFR time, id love to see how the 411 compares.
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Might just do that, Tony. I've still got a little over a year, but these days time sure does move fast. I think you'll find the 411 feels like a fighter after flying the 421 so much. Much more agile and quick to respond. I always joke that you input a maneuver to the 421 controls and sit around for a minute waiting. With the 411, by the time you think about doing it, it's done. :D
 
I might be able to teach someone a thing or two myself. I am not the typical young CFI. I will be 37 next month. This was a career change for me that was forced by other events in my life.

David

2256Q said:
Ummm, David, I don't want to sound like a smart butt, but every time I go for the BFR, the CFI is a young guy. Often very young, compared to me, and invariably I wind up teaching HIM before it's over with. Not bragging. To the contrary, it always pleases me to learn something new and I really wish those kids could show me something. The young ones I encounter just don't have the experience. Next time, I'm going to Kenny or Dan. Bet they can teach me something! :yes:
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flhrci said:
I might be able to teach someone a thing or two myself. I am not the typical young CFI. I will be 37 next month.
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Hate to tell you this D3, but I think Ray considers 37 "young". ;)

I'll have to admit to an opposite bias. Especially when I was younger, I found "older" instructors to sometimes be too paternalistic. Even if they might have had something good to teach me I couldn't get past the personality conflict. Maybe this was a normal way for an older male to think about a younger woman but it still bothered me, especially when I felt I knew more about whatever than they did. Now that I am much "older" it doesn't happen... as much. Besides I have grown up enough to not let it bother me... as much. I make an effort now to try not to be "ageist" in either direction.
 
flhrci said:
I might be able to teach someone a thing or two myself. I am not the typical young CFI. I will be 37 next month. This was a career change for me that was forced by other events in my life.
David
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David, let me affirm that I was NOT trying to belittle anyone. Nobody I ever knew was born knowing how to fly. My situation is that I've been flying for so darned long, it's becoming difficult to find someone who can show me something new. I mean really, I was a pilot 10 years before you were born. I don't even know for sure how many hours I have. At 18,000 I had long since stopped logging every minute of flight. My logs these days reflect enough to meet currency, and that's about it. At my age, why bother? I'm not shooting for any new ratings. I don't even use the ones I have very much. I do love learning new things, though. Always have, and I guess always will, especially where it concerns aviation. It has been my life and I wouldn't trade that for anything. So learn something new you can teach an old dog. I will happily learn from you, promise. :yes:
 
Now I understand Ray. There may be nothing I can teach you at my 454 hours TT. No sweat. Just trying to make a living and survive.

David

2256Q said:
David, let me affirm that I was NOT trying to belittle anyone. Nobody I ever knew was born knowing how to fly. My situation is that I've been flying for so darned long, it's becoming difficult to find someone who can show me something new. I mean really, I was a pilot 10 years before you were born. I don't even know for sure how many hours I have. At 18,000 I had long since stopped logging every minute of flight. My logs these days reflect enough to meet currency, and that's about it. At my age, why bother? I'm not shooting for any new ratings. I don't even use the ones I have very much. I do love learning new things, though. Always have, and I guess always will, especially where it concerns aviation. It has been my life and I wouldn't trade that for anything. So learn something new you can teach an old dog. I will happily learn from you, promise. :yes:
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flhrci said:
Now I understand Ray. There may be nothing I can teach you at my 454 hours TT. No sweat. Just trying to make a living and survive.

David
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Nawww... I'm sure there's something each of us could teach that "old dog" but we probably wouldn't know until flying with them. But, you walk into it knowing you're going to learn something as well.
 
KennyFlys said:
Nawww... I'm sure there's something each of us could teach that "old dog" but we probably wouldn't know until flying with them. But, you walk into it knowing you're going to learn something as well.
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Absolutely! And I always go into a flight with a young instructor looking forward to hearing something new. Example: Show me why I should like the glass cockpits and fully trust them, the way I do my steam gauges. 'Cause right now, I don't trust them. Educate me in plastic airplanes. Again, I can't bring myself to fully trust the things, especially in lightning. I like my Faraday cage. The list of my deficiencies is actually rather long, so don't think that just because you only have a short logbook you can't show me something I don't know, or explain away some misgiving I might have. Perfect and all-knowing I AIN'T! :no:
 
Jay Honeck said:
With GA flying down 50% (or more), this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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how exactly did you arrive at that number ?

I'm getting tired of all the gloom & doom & dramatics. Let's see that 50% number substantiated by soem data such as fuel sales records year-over-year

FBO's die all the time, restaurants come & go. fuel service changes to self serve and changes back again. Whatever's changed at your favorite place, it can't be said to represent the whole industry.

fuel prices spike, people get sticker shock for awhile. then things go back to something resembling what you had before. No, prices won't go down but most folks will get numb to it. It's happened before and it will happen again

the only real lesson to learn is that now through next year is the best opportunity to buy an airplane if you have been considering it
 
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JHW said:
how exactly did you arrive at that number ?
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I would bet that to be a low est.

At my home FBO (KISP) there used to be 10 CFIs billing 40+ a week. Now there are 3 warming the couch.

At KHWV there would always be 3-4 in the pattern. Now there might be Busy :)



I have no solid numbers, Just a guess.
 
JHW said:
I'm getting tired of all the gloom & doom & dramatics. Let's see that 50% number substantiated by soem data such as fuel sales records year-over-year
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It's not 50% according to this article, but 18% is still pretty significant.

The Trouble With Avgas...
… is that fewer and fewer piston-aircraft owners are buying it. The latest hard number I can find comes from AOPA, which reported an 18 percent drop in avgas sales during the first quarter of 2008. As the price of fuel has continued to escalate, it’s safe to assume that number is growing.
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It's true that aviation is cyclical and we are definitely in a down cycle. I don't know about doom and gloom though. There was plenty of it after 9/11 and aviation managed to bounce back. Of course that doesn't help all the small (and big) businesses which are not strong enough to weather the downturn. So I guess it is doom and gloom for them.
 
2256Q said:
Absolutely! And I always go into a flight with a young instructor looking forward to hearing something new. Example: Show me why I should like the glass cockpits and fully trust them, the way I do my steam gauges. 'Cause right now, I don't trust them. Educate me in plastic airplanes. Again, I can't bring myself to fully trust the things, especially in lightning. I like my Faraday cage. The list of my deficiencies is actually rather long, so don't think that just because you only have a short logbook you can't show me something I don't know, or explain away some misgiving I might have. Perfect and all-knowing I AIN'T!
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This is a constant tension and will never be completely resolved, but BFRs often force experienced pilots to fly with fairly young CFIs.

Still, if that young person went through all the training and passed the vetting process, he/she should be accorded to credibility implied by the rating until proven otherwise.

Anyway, the first 30 minutes or so of a BFR I think is better handled, "We know what the regs require, and we'll certainly cover that, but --- what type flying do you do, what do you and I need to work on?" etc.

Sometimes the approach is "I don't have much experience in this airplane -- how about you talk me through your pre-takeoff checklist [or whatever]?"

The focus should be more on a cooperative endeavor -- not an exam or a hurdle to simply get over.

That said, if I get a know- it-all who wants to flash his logbook and give me grief we will quickly part company (that has not happened -- yet. But I'm 46 and so probably get a bit more credit than I deserve)

Everyone can learn something, and if you think you know it all, I certainly don't want my name and number in your logbook when the NTSB goes through it after the inevitable accident.
 
dmccormack said:
This is a constant tension and will never be completely resolved, but BFRs often force experienced pilots to fly with fairly young CFIs.

Still, if that young person went through all the training and passed the vetting process, he/she should be accorded to credibility implied by the rating until proven otherwise.

Anyway, the first 30 minutes or so of a BFR I think is better handled, "We know what the regs require, and we'll certainly cover that, but --- what type flying do you do, what do you and I need to work on?" etc.

Sometimes the approach is "I don't have much experience in this airplane -- how about you talk me through your pre-takeoff checklist [or whatever]?"

The focus should be more on a cooperative endeavor -- not an exam or a hurdle to simply get over.

That said, if I get a know- it-all who wants to flash his logbook and give me grief we will quickly part company (that has not happened -- yet. But I'm 46 and so probably get a bit more credit than I deserve)

Everyone can learn something, and if you think you know it all, I certainly don't want my name and number in your logbook when the NTSB goes through it after the inevitable accident.
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Having a lot of hours in your books gives you the experience to ask decent questions of someone who may know the answer. It also helps you avoid (sometimes) looking like a total fool. With my inborn curiosity, aviation has provided me with a wonderful platform since you can NEVER know it all, I don't care who you are. After a while, though, it gets to be too often like someone telling you about a great book they just read when you read the same book years ago. For someone with my type of mind, that really represents a bit of a downside. I would love to have the physical ability to get back into flying the latest fighter aircraft. If nothing else, all the new whistles and bells have to fascinating!
 
2256Q said:
Having a lot of hours in your books gives you the experience to ask decent questions of someone who may know the answer. It also helps you avoid (sometimes) looking like a total fool. With my inborn curiosity, aviation has provided me with a wonderful platform since you can NEVER know it all, I don't care who you are. After a while, though, it gets to be too often like someone telling you about a great book they just read when you read the same book years ago. For someone with my type of mind, that really represents a bit of a downside.
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I agree completely -- which is why it's very important for the CFI to ask questions first.

Know who you're dealing with, and don't try to bluff, because you'll quickly be found out.
 
dmccormack said:
Know who you're dealing with, and don't try to bluff, because you'll quickly be found out.
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When I was still operating a multi-plane charter service, I occasionally had to hire new pilots. After some conversation, I'd take them out to a 402 or 421 and put them in the left seat. After engine start and taxi to the runway, they were often surprised when I had them taxi back to the hangars. That was about all the a/c operation I needed to see to determine if they knew what they were doing. Most of them were good, honest pilots. Every once in a while you'd run into a clinker, though. Pretty easy to spot.
 
2256Q said:
When I was still operating a multi-plane charter service, I occasionally had to hire new pilots. After some conversation, I'd take them out to a 402 or 421 and put them in the left seat. After engine start and taxi to the runway, they were often surprised when I had them taxi back to the hangars. That was about all the a/c operation I needed to see to determine if they knew what they were doing. Most of them were good, honest pilots. Every once in a while you'd run into a clinker, though. Pretty easy to spot.
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Very true...I tell my students "the examiner will know by the time the engine's started whether you will pass or not..."

Not that you can't fail afterwards, but you set the tone by your approach and professionalism right from the beginning.
 
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