My Dad's "crash"

abqtj

abqtj

Pre-takeoff checklist
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abqtj
Video from my Dad's flight back in October. He was still in training and was out doing some pattern work solo (maybe his 2nd or 3rd solo flight).

Remos GX is the plane he was in.

Skip to about the 3:30 mark for the second landing for the incident.


He's safe, zero injuries. Pretty upset with himself at the time, though.
 
What happened? Looked like a normal landing. Nose wheel collapse, or is it a retractable and he landed gear up? Glad he's alright.
 
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mscard88 said:
What happened? Looked normal. Nose wheel collapse, or is it a retractable and he landed gear up?
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Not retractable, nose wheel collapsed somehow.

Something sheared off, not sure if a bolt failed or the tubing (strut? not sure what it's called) just sheared in two. Honestly I never found out and he didn't think to take a picture of it at the time.
 
Remos GX is a fixed tricycle gear. Looks like he set it nicely on the mains. It's not like he bounced it on the nose wheel. I guess it could have been damaged earlier, but there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with that landing (prior to the collapse).
 
So what happened? Nose gear collapse?
 
What the heck happened? Didn't look like he did anything that warranted a nose gear collapse. Did someone forget some bolts on the gear attachment?
 
Wow. Didn't look like he hit very hard. A nose gear should easily be able to take a landing like that.

Earlier this year I hit so hard that my nose tire popped! Gear was fine though.
 
I couldn't teach in that ride. I let students screw up landing way worse than that in the classic training fleet aircraft with no ill effect.

There had to be an unreported hard landing before his flight. That just doesn't seem right to me.
 
No doubt earlier renters had "softened up" that nose gear for him! I've heard that some trike LSAs have pretty fragile nose gear....not sure if the Remos was on that hit list.

I'm glad your dad was just surprised and not hurt. I really don't think he's to blame at all.
 
I'm glad to read everyone saying it didn't appear he did anything to cause the nose gear failure. That was my take as well, but I have very little experience at this point.

I did also send the video to his instructor and he said the same thing.

BTW, I had edited the audio right after he landed...there were plenty of choice words :D
 
abqtj said:
...BTW, I had edited the audio right after he landed...there were plenty of choice words :D
Click to expand...

So, um, does this sort of editing now qualify it as 'fake news'?
Just askin' :D

Glad to hear your Dad is okay. Hopefully he got back in the saddle and rode another horse right away?
 
That sucks, glad he was OK


He does seem a little ham fisted with the plane and could fly his pattern a bit, a good bit, tighter and flare a good bit lower ;)
 
hindsight2020 said:
LSA tinker toy nose gear. That is all.
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Many years ago I used to rent a Piper Cherokee 180 from a place that had some Piper Tomahawk trainers. One day, during a touch-and-go, one of the planes left a main gear leg and wheel on the runway when the bolt sheared. Fortunately the student was with an instructor who dragged it in behind the power curve and put it down on the grass with not too much damage.
 
Wow looked like a great landing. What was the dollar amount of damage on that ? We are looking to add another plane to our club probably another 172. Talk was had about a lsa but that was my concern.
 
James331 said:
That sucks, glad he was OK


He does seem a little ham fisted with the plane and could fly his pattern a bit, a good bit, tighter and flare a good bit lower ;)
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Have you flown a Remos?
 
Out of curiosity... was there an edit that took out his radio work with the tower or CTAF.

I've had 1 nose gear collapse and two (separate planes) main wheel flats on landing. Fortunately all 3 were at towered airports so when the plane came to a stop it was:

Engine and fuel systems swithed off
Verify NO FLAMES
Verify all on-board are okay
Communicate
Wait

Most importantly - Not only did he walk away, but he was strapping down the airplane! That's 'doing it right.' Glad he's okay. Tell him to get back in the air soon.
 
rolivi said:
Out of curiosity... was there an edit that took out his radio work with the tower or CTAF.

I've had 1 nose gear collapse and two (separate planes) main wheel flats on landing. Fortunately all 3 were at towered airports so when the plane came to a stop it was:

Engine and fuel systems swithed off
Verify NO FLAMES
Verify all on-board are okay
Communicate
Wait

Most importantly - Not only did he walk away, but he was strapping down the airplane! That's 'doing it right.' Glad he's okay. Tell him to get back in the air soon.
Click to expand...

I believe he didn't communicate on CTAF after the landing (it's an un-towered airport). The others came over right away and the guy in the safety vest communicated on his handheld. He likely was shaken and didn't think to announce before shutting everything down and getting out. No idea.
 
In his defense, he's a low time student. My first 'event' was around 200hrs and the other two were in the high 300's.

Shake it off and get back up there!
 
James331 said:
No
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Maybe go fly one and perhaps reconsider your post. A tight pattern in a Remos can be a difficult proposition and as a result some instructors are going with bomber size patterns to make it easier on the studs. The aircraft can glide to the runway from a long way out...I found the glide ratio somewhat difficult to adapt to as a 100 hour guy and the instructor wasn't much help.

Maybe this brings up a good question about when to fly a lower pattern?
 
Back in #15 OP wrote this:

BTW, I had edited the audio right after he landed...there were plenty of choice words :D
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
No doubt earlier renters had "softened up" that nose gear for him! I've heard that some trike LSAs have pretty fragile nose gear....not sure if the Remos was on that hit list.

I'm glad your dad was just surprised and not hurt. I really don't think he's to blame at all.
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I had a nose wheel go flat on a rented SkyCatcher a year or so ago. funny thing is the landing didn't feel hard and we had a long taxi 1after touchdown and there was no noticeable difficulty in steering. the FBO didn't have the necessary tube so we had to rent a car to drive home. flew down with a buddy a couple of days later to retrieve the plane. the FBO reimbursed 100% of the cost of the rental car.
 
Clark1961 said:
Maybe go fly one and perhaps reconsider your post. A tight pattern in a Remos can be a difficult proposition and as a result some instructors are going with bomber size patterns to make it easier on the studs. The aircraft can glide to the runway from a long way out...I found the glide ratio somewhat difficult to adapt to as a 100 hour guy and the instructor wasn't much help.

Maybe this brings up a good question about when to fly a lower pattern?
Click to expand...


I don't think so, it might handle a little odd, but it aint a F104 starfighter
 
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Clark1961 said:
Maybe go fly one and perhaps reconsider your post. A tight pattern in a Remos can be a difficult proposition and as a result some instructors are going with bomber size patterns to make it easier on the studs. The aircraft can glide to the runway from a long way out...I found the glide ratio somewhat difficult to adapt to as a 100 hour guy and the instructor wasn't much help.

Maybe this brings up a good question about when to fly a lower pattern?
Click to expand...


Trouble with learning such an extended pattern in primary training is that it gets engrained in the pilot's normal procedure so that it has the potential to continue in subsequent aircraft that might have a glide ratio of a brick.

Learn the flight characteristics of the airplane you're in and fly a close pattern tailored to that airplane, IMHO.
 
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Nothing wrong with his landing. It's easy to beat yourself up over mishaps like this, but that was totally out of his control. Glad to hear he's okay.

Did the FBO cite it as being pilot error?! Sure hope not. He shouldn't have had to file a claim under his own non-owners insurance policy for that.
 
James331 said:
I don't think so, it might a little odd, but it aint a F104 starfighter
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Remos built gliders before they built LSA. Does a glider fly the same pattern as a powered aircraft?
 
painless said:
Trouble with learning such an extended pattern in primary training is that it gets engrained in the pilot's normal procedure so that it has the potential to continue in subsequent aircraft that might have a glide ratio of a brick.

Learn the flight characteristics of the airplane you're in and fly a close pattern tailored to that airplane, IMHO.
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That's the problem with the Remos, either fly big or fly low. The flaps aren't big enough to bring it down fast and it doesn't slip for <crap>. From what I've seen instructors are gun shy of getting slow in LSAs so there aren't a lot of choices.
 
Clark1961 said:
Remos built gliders before they built LSA. Does a glider fly the same pattern as a powered aircraft?
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So did pilatus, and I fly a tighter than that LSAs pattern, in the PC12.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, well maybe a little ;) but in all honesty, you would be well served flying a much tighter pattern.
 
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Clark1961 said:
That's the problem with the Remos, either fly big or fly low. The flaps aren't big enough to bring it down fast and it doesn't slip for <crap>. From what I've seen instructors are gun shy of getting slow in LSAs so there aren't a lot of choices.
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most of my hours are in a SkyCatcher but I have a few hours in a GX and G3. the CFI taught me to fly the same basic pattern that I would in the SkyCatcher except to pull the power abeam the numbers, glide to landing but make the turn to base a tad sooner than the 45-deg angle I normally use in the SkyCatcher. The G3/GX does glide much better than the SkyCatcher.
 
James331 said:
So did pilatus, and I fly a tighter than that LSAs pattern, in the PC12.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, well maybe a little ;) but in all honesty, you would be sell served flying a much tighter pattern.
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So you want to compare the PC-12 to a LSA. Okay. I understand you want to bust my chops about an aircraft you have no experience in. No worries. I recognize quite well when one is showing their ass.
 
rk911 said:
most of my hours are in a SkyCatcher but I have a few hours in a GX and G3. the CFI taught me to fly the same basic pattern that I would in the SkyCatcher except to pull the power abeam the numbers, glide to landing but make the turn to base a tad sooner than the 45-deg angle I normally use in the SkyCatcher. The G3/GX does glide much better than the SkyCatcher.
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I tried to fly a normal 172 sized pattern in the G3. It was quite happy to glide from abeam the touchdown point...it probably would have been happy to glide from midfield but I didn't fly it that much. I got real turned off when the instructor told me that he didn't want to see more than 20 degrees bank in the pattern.
 
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