MVA below MOCA?

[iamtheari]

So there I was, flying along, when ATC told me that I would have to climb to 14,000 to stay on the airway I had filed, but I could stay at 12,000 if we took an off-airway shortcut. The OROCA in the area was higher than the airway. I don't remember exactly where this was, but I think it was V208 between PUC and PGA. The shortcut wasn't far off the airway, either. How common is this and how could I have planned for it? That is, what could I have filed to get the lower altitude instead of filing the airway and expecting 14,000?

 

[Velocity173]

An MVA less than an MEA and OROCA is very common. Possibly even be less than the MOCA on the airway. Where I worked, the MVA was less than all three.

 

[luvflyin]

So there I was, flying along, when ATC told me that I would have to climb to 14,000 to stay on the airway I had filed, but I could stay at 12,000 if we took an off-airway shortcut. The OROCA in the area was higher than the airway. I don't remember exactly where this was, but I think it was V208 between PUC and PGA. The shortcut wasn't far off the airway, either. How common is this and how could I have planned for it? That is, what could I have filed to get the lower altitude instead of filing the airway and expecting 14,000?

OROCA is not pertinent other than to maybe help you make a good guess. Looking at the Sectionals MEF’s and adding 1000/2000 depending on if it’s designated mountain area, can give you a better picture. If you can get the Centers MIA maps, that would help you pick a route to file to maybe get what you want. MIA map is the same thing as an Approach Controls MVA.

 

[sarangan]

So there I was, flying along, when ATC told me that I would have to climb to 14,000 to stay on the airway I had filed, but I could stay at 12,000 if we took an off-airway shortcut. The OROCA in the area was higher than the airway. I don't remember exactly where this was, but I think it was V208 between PUC and PGA. The shortcut wasn't far off the airway, either. How common is this and how could I have planned for it? That is, what could I have filed to get the lower altitude instead of filing the airway and expecting 14,000?

OROCA is 1000 ft above the highest obstacle within the entire quadrangle area (2000 ft in mountainous). Minimum IFR altitude requires this altitude buffer only within a 4NM distance from the obstacles. So OROCA is likely to be higher than MIA. MVA is going to be closer to MIA. If they can see you on radar, they know exactly where you are compared to the obstacles.

 

[iamtheari]

Thanks, that all makes sense. I live in GPS direct country (upper midwest) but this is in the mountain west where just going direct requires more performance than my plane has to offer, so I try to find airway routes that minimize the time above 12,000. Now to figure out a route home that will let me fly IFR without needing to open the oxygen bottle at all.

 

[luvflyin]

Thanks, that all makes sense. I live in GPS direct country (upper midwest) but this is in the mountain west where just going direct requires more performance than my plane has to offer, so I try to find airway routes that minimize the time above 12,000. Now to figure out a route home that will let me fly IFR without needing to open the oxygen bottle at all.

There is a way…..

 

[iamtheari]

There is a way…..

It's not really that bad. I could just file a route of PXR V16 TOTEC V94 DMN V110 TCS V611 ONM V264 CNX V83 RUINS V234 DHT V81 TBE V169 RAP V491 DIK V439 ISN and fly 1433 miles instead of 971 direct, albeit at 11,000 or lower. That's only about 3 extra hours of flying, which is a bit less than the Pacific Clipper route you suggested. But I think I'd prefer the Pacific Clipper option. Anyone know of a Boeing 314 for sale in Arizona?