Multi training in your own plane?

W. Stewart

Pre-takeoff checklist
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W. Stewart
The wife has decided that she wants a second engine, so I might be moving up from my Cardinal RG (possibly to a Twin Comanche).

The insurance quotes are staggering, and I am still in the process of comparing other cost differences.

I have about 900 hours, but basically no multi time (and no multi rating).

What do y'all think about the relative merits of learning from a local MEI in my new plane, versus getting the rating in a dissimilar model at a flight school somewhere (I think there might be multi training at INT, about a hour's drive from my house).

I can see the advantages as gaining familiarity with my plane and simultaneously getting to the 25 hours dual point prior to carrying passengers.

I am concerned about wear and tear on the plane by repeated stowing an engine, however.

Looking forward to everyone's advice,

Wells
 
Well, one option would be to find a twin with high time engines (at lower cost), do your training and get your make and model time in it, then redo the engines.

I covet your wife sight unseen - wish mine wanted to see me spend more money on flying.

On a more serious note, if you're really going to buy a twin for improved safety, do your homework and find an airplane that will actually perform adequately on one engine when loaded for your typical mission. Then spend the time to stay proficient - some of the smaller sim operators are very good at this, and that can help with your insurance rates.

Sadly, for many light twins, (and for ill-prepared pilots), the safest thing to do with an engine failure after takeoff is to pull BOTH engines back and pretend you're in a single. En-route failures are not so bad, but handling an engine failure when a light twin is low and slow require the proper knowledge and attitude, and there's little margin for error.
 
En-route failures are not so bad, but handling an engine failure when a light twin is low and slow require the proper knowledge and attitude, and there's little margin for error.

While the real percentages are hard to come by, there have been a significant number of twins that came to grief during the landing after cruising safely for a while on one engine. IOW, OEI landing proficiency may be as important as the ability to deal with the dreaded engine failure on takeoff.
 
In the past when I've poked around at multi insurance, it seemed that all of the quotes required a substantial amount of time-in-type before giving you solo-rights anyway. If you're going to have to get 15-25 hrs t.i.t. before they allow you to solo it in the first place, why not kill two birds with one stone and do your multi in YOUR bird. You get your multi and get the required times for insurance without having to pay double instructor time. (not that I have anything against instructors of course ;))

Just my .02.
 
if you've settled on a particular make/model, I'd find a way to do the training in that whether you own it at the time or rent it. Done properly it's not particularly abusive to the engines but doing it this way can waste a little time in the air. The plus side of this is that you will be gaining valuable make/model hours and proficiency in addition to the rating and I really don't see much of a downside. IMO the biggest issue WRT non-abusive procedures is paying attention to engine temps. Don't let the cylinders get below 30-40F before restarting a shutdown engine, warm it up well beyond low temp limits before bringing up the power, and make sure the operating engine stays well below 400 F.

And if the Twinkie meets your requirements, be sure to consider a Beech 95 (Travel Air) as an alternative. IMO it's a much more pleasant twin to fly. The Twinkie cabin is wider but you're not "wide" enough for that to matter much.
 
Wells -

I am a twin driver.

When I decided to do it, I wanted to train in make and model. I ended up buying a Seneca III - but trained in a Seneca I. A few benefits of doing that:

1. I got make and model time - very important for insurance. My first insurance ran 6 to 7K (I don't remember exactly) - but others were much higher - shop around.

2. My Seneca has turbocharging - by training in a Seneca I with manual Ray J's pulling engines left and right wasn't much as a big deal versus doing in the III.(I didn't actually buy the III until after I got my ME)

3. Because I did my checkride in make and model, my insurance company did not require me to to an IPC or any dual (I did dual time though cause they are some big differences between the I and III).

One of the biggest drawback was I had to drive to Phoenix from Tucson for the closest Seneca training. Which meant about 1 1/2 hours plus for every lesson - so I lost a few days of life commuting.

Hope this helps.

Chris
 
Concur with those who say to get the training in type. The Law of Primacy suggests that your initial multi training will set patterns that are hard to break. That means if you learn in something with fairly gentle OEI manners like a Seminole, and then jump in something much less tolerant like a Twinkie, you could react inappropriately if one quits early on in your ownership. Just make darn sure your "local MEI" is Twin Comanche qualified -- its OEI characteristics are not something an instructor whose ME training and experience is all in Seminoles or something like that can just pick up.
 
I got my ME and MEI in my own twin. It certainly helped me become much more familiar and comfortable with the aircraft.

As far as shutting down engines during training- thats not such a big deal, provided you treat them kindly. Mine has unfeathering accumulators, so I do not have to grind the starter to bring the props out of feather. Since I knew going in that the plane would be used for ME training, this was a feature I specifically looked for when searching for a plane.

Many of the the other benefits and pitfalls of owning a twin have been previously discussed in many threads. Just run a search, and you'll be amazed how much info will unload upon you...

Good luck with your decision!
 
The insurance quotes are staggering, and I am still in the process of comparing other cost differences.

FWIW, I'm looking at potentially doing the same thing (buying a multi and doing the rating in it).

Avemco gave a high quote, but they said that doing the Kings' Practical Risk Management DVD would knock off 5%, getting a mere two hours of dual above and beyond what they required would knock off another 5%, hitting 550 total time (I'm at about 510 right now) another 10%.

What do y'all think about the relative merits of learning from a local MEI in my new plane, versus getting the rating in a dissimilar model at a flight school somewhere (I think there might be multi training at INT, about a hour's drive from my house).

I can see the advantages as gaining familiarity with my plane and simultaneously getting to the 25 hours dual point prior to carrying passengers.

Bingo. I'm all for doing it in the plane you own, with one possible exception... If you're buying a turbocharged plane with anything other than manual wastegates, well, burn up someone else's turbos. :D

I am concerned about wear and tear on the plane by repeated stowing an engine, however.

For small normally aspirated engines such as those on the Twinkie, I doubt you'll cause much of a problem. I do like the idea of buying a plane with runout engines that still work, though... Beat the heck out of the old engines, and then get some shiny new ones. Maybe something like this.

Have fun! :yes:
 
If your wife is suggesting this for safety reasons, have you considered one of the turbine singles?

-Skip
 
While the real percentages are hard to come by, there have been a significant number of twins that came to grief during the landing after cruising safely for a while on one engine. IOW, OEI landing proficiency may be as important as the ability to deal with the dreaded engine failure on takeoff.

Good point! Single engine approaches IMC are high-pucker time for me. VFR, not so much, as I can stay high and do an idle descent to the landing.

But, anytime you're low, slow, and on one engine in a light twin, you need to bring your "A" game.
 
Wells, P.M. me. Your children are small now but will be bigger soon. ESP. in a twinkie, you need to be undergross in order to have any "fly it away" capability. I have counseled others to NOT buy a twin jsut adequate for the mission, but to buy one a little larger and fly it a MOST 200 undergross. It makes such an AMAZING difference when you really must fly it away on one.

You have to always bring your best game in a twin, and with your family up, and all their stuff (be honest, now) You don't want to be nudging gross. Then even your finest game might be....well marginal. Think about taking your Daughter to Georgetown or Vanderbilt....with all her stuff, the Mom, etc. etc.

My analysis came up to 200 hp per side. Some of the Miller twinkies have IO-360s but they have other payload problems, too. Senecas are not that expensive to owner operate. They're awful on the flightline due to hamfists......but mine has not been that expensive.

Purchase what you decide to fly, and do straight dual until you can fly insure it youself. In your postiion, NOT having insurance is intolerable even for a moment.
 
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