Multi-Engine Training...

bbchien said:
You do what I did. Accumulate an excel spreadsheet in my then double-runout, of about 1000 point of accelerate stop distances. Plan to trash the bakes and mains. Record temps, winds, distances, baros, at many dirrerent weights.

That's how you do it. I brought many many donuts to Tracon. A light twin operator can think of V1 as the speed at which you can bring it to a halt and not go off the pavement. Of course if V1 is lesser than Vyse, that means something, ya-think?
Click to expand...
I was thinking more along the lines of extrapolating from the published data using physics. I'm not ready to ruin a brand new set of tires and my brakes just yet.
 
In the 421 which was part 91, I used book numbers multiplied by 1.5. In the 402 which was 135, it was a long time ago, you were going anyways, it was book values multiplied by 1.15. Well it felt like that anyways. If you were flying like you aught to then they threatened to fire you about every 6 or 8 weeks.

Another interesting factor to ponder win this discussion is that in 135 we were almost always max weight with as far aft of a cg as you could get. In the 91 flying the weight was rarely ever max weight ad the cg was normally about center to a third from the back of the envelope.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, late to the party, but I'd like ask the ME rated pilots and the MEI's of the group:

Knowing that each make/model has a specific emergency checklist and procedures to follow during an engine failure, what is your memorized checklist/procedures that you immediately go to for your make/model?

You know the one I'm talking about, the one that you practice while laying in bed in the middle of the night when you can't sleep!

I did my MEL with Tom Brady in his Apache and my MEI at Sheble in a TravelAir when they were in Kingman AZ. Both Tom and Sheble had similar flow procedures. I use a blend of both in our Aztec.
 
bbchien said:
I fail any ME candidate whose predeparture brief doesn't include landing in the trees/fence/corn if he loses one below Vyse.

And that is all......
Click to expand...


I don't agree"that is all", I agree that that may be required, but it is conditional on the load and performance of that particular take off. Blue line/Vyse is the BEST single engine rate of climb speed, that does not mean that it will not climb on a single outside of that speed. You may have sufficient climb at a lower speed even that you can give some up and accelerate. You have multiple things to consider in your brief such as weight and temp/density altitude, length of the runway and clearway beyond to determine your best course of action as well as if you already have the gear coming up. If you are in a light high performance twin on a relatively short runway with solid obstacles off the end and the gear is already coming up, then the best course of action may be to aim just over the top of your obstacle as you are pulling back the prop lever. If you can maintain your pitch while accelerating, you will be able to proceed.
 
Jim Burns said:
Knowing that each make/model has a specific emergency checklist and procedures to follow during an engine failure, what is your memorized checklist/procedures that you immediately go to for your make/model?
Click to expand...
Since I fly different makes/models regularly, it's whatever it is for that make/model. However, the fundamental "power-pitch-flaps-gear-identify-verify-feather" litany is pretty much standard in all of them.
 
Jim Burns said:
Knowing that each make/model has a specific emergency checklist and procedures to follow during an engine failure, what is your memorized checklist/procedures that you immediately go to for your make/model?

You know the one I'm talking about, the one that you practice while laying in bed in the middle of the night when you can't sleep!
Click to expand...

Since the twins I fly are pretty similar, the flows are pretty similar, but it does depend on the phase of flight.

Takeoff/initial climb (i.e. obstacles straight ahead and threatening):

1) Mixture/prop/throttle full, flaps/gear up (should be that way already)

2) Identify (dead foot = dead engine, confirm with engine monitor and instruments showing irregularities), verify, feather, secure (fuel off on dead engine, cowl flaps closed on dead engine, cowl flaps open on good engine)

Climb/cruise (above obstacles when I have more time):

1) Take a look at everything and figure out what's wrong (is it a dead engine or did I forget to change the fuel?)

2) Act appropriately. If I lose an engine in cruise I will probably leave the other engine at cruise power, rather than putting it to full power, but that's because the planes I fly can handle that. If I forgot to change the fuel, well, then it would be pretty silly to shut down the engine. :)

I've one alternate method for takeoff. After gear is up, move hands to props. Look at your EGTs for a discrepancy vs. normal, and if an engine quits, feather that one immediately. The person who did that method flew out of a very short strip for the plane, and figured that if one quit right after pulling the gear up that he only had a split second to get the dead engine feathered if he wanted to clear the trees at the end. It does offer more room for error on the pilot's part, but I also see the benefits if you execute it correctly.
 
Henning said:
I don't agree"that is all", I agree that that may be required, but it is conditional on the load and performance of that particular take off. Blue line/Vyse is the BEST single engine rate of climb speed, that does not mean that it will not climb on a single outside of that speed. You may have sufficient climb at a lower speed even that you can give some up and accelerate....
Click to expand...
It's different if I'm teaching 'graduate school" Henning. I'm talking about getting the rating. But to quote Ron, pilots fly the way they train, and the don't get the subtleties....but in graduate school we can do some things we can't, in "rating" school. :)
 
bbchien said:
But to quote Ron, pilots fly the way they train,
Click to expand...
Actually, Steve Ritchey said that. And Randy Cunningham took it a step further in saying that's why you should train the way you want to fly. But I agree with both, and preach those as gospel truths (with appropriate credit).
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Do props suddenly spin in the opposite direction in the Southern hemisphere?
Click to expand...

Clocks turn the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere. Which is why the toilets flush counter-clockwise down there.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Plus the $400 examiner fee. No hour limits (whatever it takes to get your rating). That's a pretty good deal.
Click to expand...

If you can't pass a multi engine check ride in 10 hrs in a Travel Air, you probably need to rethink whether you belong there. It is not difficult to learn, but one thing they teach that is wrong is verifying engine dead with the throttle. That is wrong, you can do it with the prop lever, if you have the wrong one you'll know quickly with no damage and if you have the right one you just keep pulling. Your hand should go from the gear switch to the props, 2 seconds saved there is everything.
 
Henning said:
If you can't pass a multi engine check ride in 10 hrs in a Travel Air, you probably need to rethink whether you belong there.
Click to expand...

I dunno, for a "guaranteed" price, I think I'd play dumb for a while and get some hours out of the deal. ;) :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top