Moving a Champ'

roncachamp

roncachamp

Final Approach
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Jun 6, 2008
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De Pere, WI
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Display name:
Steven P McNicoll
I need to move my 7AC from my hangar to my garage, the distance is about seven miles. I'm looking for advice. My plan was to remove the tail feathers and wings and make a couple of trips with a flatbed trailer. The problem is the availability of a trailer big enough to do the job that I can pull with my van. Probably because there's very little demand for trailers that can carry large but only light loads. In his book, "Piper Cub Era at Nicolet Airport", Bev Butler mentions towing his Cessna 140 by adapting the tailwheel to his trailer hitch. Anybody here have any experience with that?
 
roncachamp said:
I need to move my 7AC from my hangar to my garage, the distance is about seven miles. I'm looking for advice. My plan was to remove the tail feathers and wings and make a couple of trips with a flatbed trailer. The problem is the availability of a trailer big enough to do the job that I can pull with my van. Probably because there's very little demand for trailers that can carry large but only light loads. In his book, "Piper Cub Era at Nicolet Airport", Bev Butler mentions towing his Cessna 140 by adapting the tailwheel to his trailer hitch. Anybody here have any experience with that?
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7 miles is a bit far for the tow like you describe. because the main gear is not aligned for that, it will stuff the tires really bad.
I use a "U" channel made from 1 8' 2X6 and 2, 8' 2X4s placed across the trailer to hold the main gear. this can be screwed down to the wooden deck of the trailer. then the main gear can be tied to that.
My trailer is a full 8' wide, and 18' long, some times I extend it by the same method of the "U" channel.
 

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Tom-D said:
7 miles is a bit far for the double tow like you describe.
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What do you mean by "double tow"?

I use a "U" channel made from 1 8' 2X6 and 2, 8' 2X4s placed across the trailer to hold the main gear. this can be screwed down to the wooden deck of the trailer. then the main gear can be tied to that.
My trailer is a full 8' wide, and 18' long, some times I extend it by the same method of the "U" channel.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply but if I had access to an 18' trailer I wouldn't have a problem.
 
How long is your backyard?
 
If you have a van, you can haul the wing inside cradled diagonally out the back doors. If you have a receiver hitch set up you can pull the ball and bolt down a U channel for the tailwheel. If you make the channel long enough, you can probably leave the H-stab on, but make sure to see how tight you can turn.

Since it's only 7 miles, I would be making at least 3 trips, one wing at a time, then fuselage behind with tail feathers inside.
 
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roncachamp said:
What do you mean by "double tow"?
I misread the trailer hitch part. some simply place the tail wheel on a trailer and tow the aircraft backwards


Thank you for your reply but if I had access to an 18' trailer I wouldn't have a problem.
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That is what rental trailers are for.

Flat bed car haulers is what I have.
 
I did it with my very first airplane (a 7AC) in the early 70's to get the fuselage home for re-build. Found something the right size to go thru a hole in my pick-up truck bumper and also thru the vertical hole in the tail wheel spring. Drove it probably 15 miles on country roads in the middle of the night.

Being older and hopefully brighter now, I would worry about frying the bearings, etc in the main gear, if I were thinking about doing it again. Being young and stupid then...not so much :)

Jim

PS- Just to be clear, consider that a vote for a trailer...

PPS- A piece of trivia. I paid $300 for the complete airframe and $150 for the A65 :)
 
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Henning said:
Even a rental car dolly will take the tail without removing any feathers.
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I've never tried that. they are too short for the fuselage to set the main gear on.
 
Look at Craig's list for flat bed trailers for sale, call and ask you can rent it for a day.
 
Jim Rosenow said:
I did it with my very first airplane (a 7AC) in the early 70's to get the fuselage home for re-build. Found something the right size to go thru a hole in my pick-up truck bumper and also thru the vertical hole in the tail wheel spring. Drove it probably 15 miles on country roads in the middle of the night.

Being older and hopefully brighter now, I would worry about frying the bearings, etc in the main gear, if I were thinking about doing it again. Being young and stupid then...not so much :)

Jim

PS- Just to be clear, consider that a vote for a trailer...
Click to expand...

The bearing properly installed and serviced will not object to towing down the road any distance. The same bearings support the wheels on cars and road trailers, and the tires are rated above highway speed with a DOT number on them. The gear is not the worry, and they do just fine sitting in a tail wind, so towing them backwards at moderate speeds for relatively short distances does them no harm. The dolly for the tailwheel would certainly make things much easier.
 
Tom-D said:
7 miles is not a short tow. plenty long enough to ruin a set of main tires
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:confused:How? The wheel alignment would have to be 45° of toe to do that. 7 miles is what, 30 take offs and landings in a Champ?
 
Henning said:
The bearing properly installed and serviced will not object to towing down the road any distance. The same bearings support the wheels on cars and road trailers, and the tires are rated above highway speed with a DOT number on them. The gear is not the worry, and they do just fine sitting in a tail wind, so towing them backwards at moderate speeds for relatively short distances does them no harm. The dolly for the tailwheel would certainly make things much easier.
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you must, as always, know the alignment of his gear. your ability to see his aircraft from Florida amazes me. It's not the bearings that are the problem. alignment is. almost every aircraft will rear the tires on the inside or the out side because of the gear alignment. 7 miles the tires will be toast.
 
Henning said:
:confused:How? The wheel alignment would have to be 45° of toe to do that. 7 miles is what, 30 take offs and landings in a Champ?
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your the expert, will you buy him a set to tires if he takes your advice?
 
I'm gone, I'm not going to get into a Pizzing contest. you have my advice.
 
People have been towing tailwheel planes around backwards on their mains since the beginnings. Why do you think wheel alignment wears more one direction than the other?:dunno: It just handles different is all.
 
roncachamp said:
I need to move my 7AC from my hangar to my garage, the distance is about seven miles. I'm looking for advice. My plan was to remove the tail feathers and wings and make a couple of trips with a flatbed trailer. The problem is the availability of a trailer big enough to do the job that I can pull with my van. Probably because there's very little demand for trailers that can carry large but only light loads. In his book, "Piper Cub Era at Nicolet Airport", Bev Butler mentions towing his Cessna 140 by adapting the tailwheel to his trailer hitch. Anybody here have any experience with that?
Click to expand...

I've moved a entire Champ a in a 24' moving van. The challenge is getting the fuselage inside. With the engine removed, it can be done by 3 guys. Might take 5 or 6 guys to get the fuselage up to trailer height if the engine is installed. Or find some ramps.

One day (local) rental on a 24' van isn't much.
 
Henning said:
People have been towing tailwheel planes around backwards on their mains since the beginnings. Why do you think wheel alignment wears more one direction than the other?:dunno: It just handles different is all.
Click to expand...

Like always you failed to answer the question.
 
towing backwards is kind of a sweet spot camber wise for a champ so strap tail-wheel into a tail wheel towbar and have at it .just service the bearings if you have not done so in a while .keep it under 35 mph and stop after a few miles and give the bearings the finger burn test air up the tires to 20 psi . leave the tail on no need to take it off . if you are close to sw fl you can use my towbar . i tow mine to the fuel farm all the time 2 miles round trip x 30 times a year x4 years =240 miles going backwards with no damage at all
 
20141226_134141.jpg

4x8 Harbor Freight trailer - didn't move the fuselage. But if I had, I would have bolted a hitch to the tail spring. I would think that you would need to have a lot of toe out to scrub the tires in 7 miles...
 
I've towed a couple of Cub fuselages backwards on the mains for distances of >10 miles. In both instances, the tires didn't look any different at the end of the trip than at the beginning.

I didn't remove the h-stab either time, but I was on rural roads with little traffic.

Mark
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
20141226_134141.jpg

4x8 Harbor Freight trailer - didn't move the fuselage. But if I had, I would have bolted a hitch to the tail spring. I would think that you would need to have a lot of toe out to scrub the tires in 7 miles...
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I had a similar setup for wings on the plane hauling trailer. I made 'U's with a 6" tail to go in the post slots at the edge of the deck, and made slings inside from bungee and carpet to suspend the wings in with the fuselage between. That was on a 38' light weight flatbed loboy.
 
Let's say the tires do get messed up towing it. I would think that would not be too bad, a set of tires is cheaper then buying a trailer.
 
Luvrv8 said:
Let's say the tires do get messed up towing it. I would think that would not be too bad, a set of tires is cheaper then buying a trailer.
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You can rent trailers in almost any market in America, they don't cost much.
 
Be sure to strap door closed so it can't blow open. Also be mindful of speeds towing backwards, if a door or window opens, it can put a pretty good outward load on the windshield. I've seen a Cub towed backwards damage the windshield.


Sent from my iPhone
 
N3368K said:
Be sure to strap door closed so it can't blow open. Also be mindful of speeds towing backwards, if a door or window opens, it can put a pretty good outward load on the windshield.) I've seen a Cub towed backwards damage the windshield.


Sent from my iPhone
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Yeah. Both of the times I towed airplanes were because of damage sustained in off airport landings (I just happened to be the lucky guy whose farm was the closest to the scene of the crime incident).:rolleyes:

I kept the speed down to 20-25 mph and didn't have any problems.

Mark
 
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Just about every aircraft owner has at least one pair of old tires laying around that you could use for the purpose of towing if you're concerned about that.
 
I asked a friend if he knew anyone who could haul a 172 for me about 20 miles. North Lakeland to south plant city fl. He asked his son who borrowed a gooseneck from work and moved it for me. Only removed wings. 200$
 
Henning said:
You can rent trailers in almost any market in America, they don't cost much.
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He said in his first post that trailers were not easily available in his area. I really don't need a lesson in trailers, I currently pull one with 6 axels.
 
A friend towed his Taylorcraft fuselage on its gear more than 2000 miles between Ontario and BC, Canada. Bearings were fine, seeing that they're no different from the Timkens found in boat and tent trailers than regularly carry 1200 pounds or more. A 500-pound T-Cart fuselage is nothing for bearings that aren't corroded or dry.

The tires will suffer if the gear is significantly misaligned. Most taildraggers won't take kindly to excessive tow-in or -out, so most are close enough for a seven-mile tow. It's not hard to check the alignment to make sure.

Those wings are fragile and need lots of careful consideration. Can't just set them on a van roof and clamp them down with ratchet straps. Can't rest their leading edges on small areas like blocks or the edge of a van floor. It is actually best, safest, fastest and cheapest (considering the time and money to repair wings damaged in transit) to make some proper cradles for them. Even for seven miles.
 
roncachamp said:
I need to move my 7AC from my hangar to my garage, the distance is about seven miles. I'm looking for advice. My plan was to remove the tail feathers and wings and make a couple of trips with a flatbed trailer. The problem is the availability of a trailer big enough to do the job that I can pull with my van. Probably because there's very little demand for trailers that can carry large but only light loads. In his book, "Piper Cub Era at Nicolet Airport", Bev Butler mentions towing his Cessna 140 by adapting the tailwheel to his trailer hitch. Anybody here have any experience with that?
Click to expand...


You live in Wisconsin ... The land of snowmobiles......

There are hundreds, if not thousands of 4 place snowmobile trailers there... Find one, borrow it... load up the plane, drag it home... Easy Pleasy...:yes:
 
N801BH said:
You live in Wisconsin ... The land of snowmobiles......

There are hundreds, if not thousands of 4 place snowmobile trailers there... Find one, borrow it... load up the plane, drag it home... Easy Pleasy...:yes:
Click to expand...

Can't do that here, ya gotta make it difficult, and risk your aircraft, and possibly get a ticket for towing with out a plate on the towed vehicle.
 
If you used those tailwheel flying skills go tow gliders on occasion, you'd have a bunch of friends with trailers who are well versed in dragging aircraft around.:D
 
Tom-D said:
Can't do that here, ya gotta make it difficult, and risk your aircraft, and possibly get a ticket for towing with out a plate on the towed vehicle.
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:confused::confused::confused::confused:,,

Both of my snowmobile trailers have Wyoming tags and I am 100 % sure Wisconsin sells and requires tags on their trailers too...
 
Tom-D said:
7 miles is a bit far for the tow like you describe. because the main gear is not aligned for that, it will stuff the tires really bad.
I use a "U" channel made from 1 8' 2X6 and 2, 8' 2X4s placed across the trailer to hold the main gear. this can be screwed down to the wooden deck of the trailer. then the main gear can be tied to that.
My trailer is a full 8' wide, and 18' long, some times I extend it by the same method of the "U" channel.
Click to expand...

A gent in an Aeronca group reported he rented an automobile dolly to tow one over a hundred miles. That sounds like it will work fine for me.
 
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