Most difficult thing in training.

Gusty cross-wind landings. While I was white knuckled, being blown up and down, left and right, correcting and overcorrecting, my instructor was calm as could be over in the right seat. After flying back home and shutting down I asked her if she was nervous at all with me in the left seat flying in those conditions. She said pretty nonchalantly, "Nope, you were fine". I sure didn't feel fine. I hope I can get that confident and proficient someday.
 
During the ME: Keeping both engines running.
 
murphey said:
Finding an instructor that really understood how to instruct and not just grab the money.
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Yea. What he said.

Second most difficult part was getting a ride to the airport. I got my pilot license before my drivers license.
 
I seemed to have a hangup with slips to landing, not to the left, only to the right. Out the pilot side window the slip adjustment came easily, but in a right TP and slipping down final, it wasn't smooth and took me a while to get it down. I still have to 'think' about them as I practice, where the slips to the left are more natural.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Those have gotten easier for me to make after having made more.
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After driving about 2 hours to the airport, preflighting, then making the final decision to wrap everything back up and drive 2 hours back home? I hate it every time.
 
AuntPeggy said:
After driving about 2 hours to the airport, preflighting, then making the final decision to wrap everything back up and drive 2 hours back home? I hate it every time.
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I didn't say that I ever got to like it. The only time I like a no-go decision is when I didn't want to go anyway (those I actually scrutinize the most to make sure I'm not saying no just because I don't feel like it), but I've found it to get easier after a few times.

Last year taking off out of Oklahoma to head back to Gaston's to pick up Missa and Adam and head home, my passenger was late. I watched this thunderstorm rolling in. It had a defined boundary. She got there andI knew if we hurried we could get off the ground. Engines were running, I was taxiing to the runway, and then turned around and went back because it just came in too fast. Cost us several hours of sitting around (with me wishing I hadn't been woken up so early), inconvenienced Bruce (who was kind enough to take Missa and Adam to his home field), and contributed to me getting home that night around 2 AM. Still, right call.
 
Dudley Henriques said:
Without question, one of the most difficult "things" to master as a student is the concept that the learning never stops. Unless a student grasps this single simple idea, all flight instruction has been wasted and any and all maneuvers learned are simply that, maneuvers.

Dudley Henriques
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Really? I wouldn't think so. At least for me I just wanted to learn more and more and now after 6 years I still want to learn more and get excited everytime something clicks. Especially with things like weather interpretation. That was another hard thing. I take wings buy books ask questions.

I guess that some could care less. ie just give me the ticket and let me go but not me and not most of the folks I fly with.
 
AuntPeggy said:
After driving about 2 hours to the airport, preflighting, then making the final decision to wrap everything back up and drive 2 hours back home? I hate it every time.
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Yeah, that's a drag... but when that happens, I will eventually smile (pleased with my decision-making) after a few repetitions of the old saw:

"Better to be on the ground wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were on the ground." :yesnod:
 
AdamZ said:
Really? I wouldn't think so. At least for me I just wanted to learn more and more and now after 6 years I still want to learn more and get excited everytime something clicks. Especially with things like weather interpretation. That was another hard thing. I take wings buy books ask questions.

I guess that some could care less. ie just give me the ticket and let me go but not me and not most of the folks I fly with.
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The problem isn't that "they could care less". Far from it. A great many pilots who come through the student program simply don't realize the importance of continuing the learning curve after certification. If instructors fail to make this impression and make it strongly, many new pilots will simply accept the certification as the accomplishment being sought and begin a career long involvement with flying at the "enjoyment level".
Trust me. This happens all too often. GOOD instructors make every effort to insure this doesn't happen.
Your experience isn't unique or unusual. You are simply one individual who went through the program and emerged with the right attitude.
Dudley Henriques
 
Dudley is right. I've come across several pilots who, after 30 years of not keeping up the learning process, are probably right where they were 30 years ago (if not behind).

Those of us on PoA are part of the group who keeps up with the learning and are actively engaged in it. I do think, sadly, there are a large number who aren't like that. I've not gotten a large enough sample to figure out which side most are on, but being an optimist I'll say most are good and keep up the learning.
 
I know from a cop stadpoint, the day you stop learning is the day you should retire or quit. I think that could be applied to being a pilot as well.
 
The most difficult thing I did in training was spins.
I had just finished reading an article in Flying magazine about how most fatal spin accidents occur during training.
When I was airborne later that day my instructor advised me that we were going to practice some spins and I almost died of a heartattack.

I now love aerobatics.
 
Dudley Henriques said:
The problem isn't that "they could care less". Far from it. A great many pilots who come through the student program simply don't realize the importance of continuing the learning curve after certification. If instructors fail to make this impression and make it strongly, many new pilots will simply accept the certification as the accomplishment being sought and begin a career long involvement with flying at the "enjoyment level".
Trust me. This happens all too often. GOOD instructors make every effort to insure this doesn't happen.
Your experience isn't unique or unusual. You are simply one individual who went through the program and emerged with the right attitude.
Dudley Henriques
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I think there is also the very reasonable expectation that the money siphon will abate after the ticket is earned. Far too often "learning" and "training" bring up dollar signs in new pilot minds because that works well for the providers.

It wouldn't have sat well with this new Private Pilot if what I heard from my instructor after the checkride was "congratulations" followed immediately by "Call me when you want to start the instrument rating..."
 
dmccormack said:
I think there is also the very reasonable expectation that the money siphon will abate after the ticket is earned. Far too often "learning" and "training" bring up dollar signs in new pilot minds because that works well for the providers.

It wouldn't have sat well with this new Private Pilot if what I heard from my instructor after the checkride was "congratulations" followed immediately by "Call me when you want to start the instrument rating..."
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I agree. The reasons for the phenomenon are complex and not at all restricted to a single factor.

The real danger however doesn't necessarily involve the continuation of "formal" training such as moving immediately into the instrument, but rather in an unchecked attitude allowed to develop over the course of a student's training that establishes the certificate as an ultimate goal as opposed to an intermediate goal.

The danger lies hidden beneath the surface if and when this happens. What's desired is an attitude after certification that defines the pilot to him/herself as still OPEN to learning from ALL sources while enjoying the privileges of the certificate as opposed to total acceptance of the certificate as a right of passage from the learning environment (mindset) on into a post learning mindset.
Dudley Henriques
 
Dudley Henriques said:
Without question, one of the most difficult "things" to master as a student is the concept that the learning never stops. Unless a student grasps this single simple idea, all flight instruction has been wasted and any and all maneuvers learned are simply that, maneuvers.

Dudley Henriques
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Dudley, I don't know if you look at the AOPA board, but here's my depressing string of the month: http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=1160286#post1160286

as in "wee don't steenkin need to learn....."..about the SCREW-ME plots, and I can take passengers into ice anytime and see I'm still okay.... "We be done learnin.....!"
 
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bbchien said:
Dudley, I don't know if you look at the AOPA board, but here's my depressing string of the month: http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=1160286#post1160286

as in "wee don't steenkin need to learn....."..about the SCREW-ME plots, and I can take passengers into ice anytime and see I'm still okay.... "We be done learnin.....!"
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Wow..just wow....

Is the AOPA board like that consistenly? Seems like re.aviation all over again..

:mad:
 
AuntPeggy said:
After driving about 2 hours to the airport, preflighting, then making the final decision to wrap everything back up and drive 2 hours back home? I hate it every time.
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I have to say I've never regretted a no-go decision.

The only time I really enjoy one is when it gives me the chance to watch a good loud thunderstorm with a nice lightning display from on the ground indoors with a glass of cognac. We don't get many of those in Los Angeles.

Joe
 
FOI was the hardest thing for me to learn in aviation. That nonsense just will NOT stay in my brain for more than a few hours. It's the one thing I've done on pure rote, because understanding completely eludes me.

The Comm rating was a heck of a lot of fun until we did those accuracy 180s. Argh. :)
 
schmookeeg said:
FOI was the hardest thing for me to learn in aviation. That nonsense just will NOT stay in my brain for more than a few hours. It's the one thing I've done on pure rote, because understanding completely eludes me.
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Okay, I'm sure I've just got a mental block and I'll be going "doh!" when someone clues me in, but FOI? My brain keeps wanting to say "freedom of information".

For me the hardest thing to learn was not to overcontrol. I was getting ready for the PPL checkride and still fighting the plane every time the winds gusted up on final. And judging my descent rate those last few feet above the runway is still a problem for me, especially on long wide runways.

But closing in on my IR, the hardest thing is knowing that I'll have a ticket that will let me legally fly into conditions that could easily get me (and my pax) killed, and my only protection is to know what I don't know about weather, since I'll never know everything there is to know about it, and it's what I think I know but don't that's likely to get me killed.
 
azure said:
Okay, I'm sure I've just got a mental block and I'll be going "doh!" when someone clues me in, but FOI? My brain keeps wanting to say "freedom of information".

For me the hardest thing to learn was not to overcontrol. I was getting ready for the PPL checkride and still fighting the plane every time the winds gusted up on final. And judging my descent rate those last few feet above the runway is still a problem for me, especially on long wide runways.

But closing in on my IR, the hardest thing is knowing that I'll have a ticket that will let me legally fly into conditions that could easily get me (and my pax) killed, and my only protection is to know what I don't know about weather, since I'll never know everything there is to know about it, and it's what I think I know but don't that's likely to get me killed.
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FOI = Fundamentals of Instruction, an FAA publication that collects a smattering of educational theories and presents them as definitive. :D

As far as the IR -- every newly minted IR pilot should most certainly tread lightly until experience provides a risk cushion.

I had a CFII friend fly a long a few times not long after I earned the IR -- and about 1/2 my IR training hours were in IMC. I needed a real-world, you're doing fine upcheck before I felt confident flying pax in the clouds.
 
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bbchien said:
Dudley, I don't know if you look at the AOPA board, but here's my depressing string of the month: http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=1160286#post1160286

as in "wee don't steenkin need to learn....."..about the SCREW-ME plots, and I can take passengers into ice anytime and see I'm still okay.... "We be done learnin.....!"
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I'll tell you the honest truth. I've avoided AOPA for over 50 years and never bother with them. Just WAY too much hassle going on there for me anyway.
Every time I turn around there's some controversy going on about something not even remotely involved with flight safety which is my main and ONLY concern.
Dudley Henriques
 
I have left that board twice. This most recent time I only returned on condition of having moderation authority in the Medical string(s). As in my conduct of the discussion of the new SSRI special pathway for three very limited conditions (which four of us at AOPA wrote and petitioned for, in 2006).

Otherwise, it's one huge frustration. Unfortunately c310flyr is here too. Same attitude.
 
The most difficult thing for me was always weather. METARS? Fugedaboutit! I managed to pass the written but I couldn't read one of those things now for anything.
Second was dealing with a difficult instructor. I just wish I had woken up and switched instructors earlier. But what the hey. I have the coveted license and there's no crying over spilled milk.
 
Landing. Man, I just couldn't figure it out, and my 18yr old instructor was no help. An instructor change fixed it, but it still took many hours for the physics of it all to sink in.
 
bbchien said:
Dudley, I don't know if you look at the AOPA board, but here's my depressing string of the month: http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=1160286#post1160286

as in "wee don't steenkin need to learn....."..about the SCREW-ME plots, and I can take passengers into ice anytime and see I'm still okay.... "We be done learnin.....!"
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Wow.

I haven't been over there in ages. Like, maybe 2 yrs. I guess I'm not missing anything if that's representative. :yikes:
 
flyersfan31 said:
Landing. Man, I just couldn't figure it out, and my 18yr old instructor was no help. An instructor change fixed it, but it still took many hours for the physics of it all to sink in.
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I think for most people learning to land is not a cumulative as much as a moment -- one moment they can't find the ground with both hands and feet, next the light goes on and the basic principle is revealed.

At least that's the way it was for me and for several others I've either taught or discussed.

:dunno:
 
dmccormack said:
I think for most people learning to land is not a cumulative as much as a moment -- one moment they can't find the ground with both hands and feet, next the light goes on and the basic principle is revealed.

At least that's the way it was for me and for several others I've either taught or discussed.

:dunno:
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I'll buy that. Certainly fits my situation.
 
dmccormack said:
I think for most people learning to land is not a cumulative as much as a moment -- one moment they can't find the ground with both hands and feet, next the light goes on and the basic principle is revealed.

:dunno:
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I think you are right.
Let me tell you about my "moment". I had originally learned to fly in a Cessna 150 when I was younger. No trouble landing. In fact I was quite good at it. Ran out of money and never got the license...But I never forgot what I had learned. It all stayed fresh in my head for many years.
Skip ahead a bunch of years and start over in my friend's Tomahawk. Well, I couldn't land that thing to save my life...and I was getting ****ed at myself! After thinking about it for quite a while I met with another instructor I knew who had access to a Cessna 150. We took it out for an hour and I made four decent landings in a row in that plane!
BINGO! The MOMENT! The light bulb above the head!
I'd been trying to land a 150 but I was flying a Tomahawk!
The very next day I went back to the Tomahawk and landed it with no problem and I've been doing it ever since. I just had to separate the two planes in my head!
Just curious if anyone else has had that type of experience.
 
OffCenter said:
I'd been trying to land a 150 but I was flying a Tomahawk!
The very next day I went back to the Tomahawk and landed it with no problem and I've been doing it ever since. I just had to separate the two planes in my head!
Just curious if anyone else has had that type of experience.
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Yep -- after a 3 year layoff I needed some polish and a BFR.

Started out in C172 even though most of my previous 60 hours ((PP and then 20 hours solo) was in a C152, what's the difference?

Also, my BFR CFI kept yelling "Flare! Flare!" about 200' AGL (or so it seemed to me).

Went up with a different CFI in a C152 two years later. We logged 5 hours together and then I was free.

It also proved another rule of thumb -- about an hour dual for every year layoff.
 
I'm a student with only 11 hours. I'm only very close to 1st solo so I don't have much to base my opinion on. Yesterday we worked on Crosswind landings and for me that was the most difficult thing yet. I was trying to keep the right wing down and point the nose with the rudder but ended up dropping the plane (seemed that way to me) on the rwy almost every time. Instructor said that most of the landings were fine.

RWY heading is 32. METAR KLVJ 082153Z AUTO 01010G16KT 10SM CLR 22/M01 A3002
 
dmccormack said:
It also proved another rule of thumb -- about an hour dual for every year layoff.
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Good rule of thumb.

I'd been out of the cockpit for 13 years and it definitely took about 13 hours of dual to get back into it. Mostly just to get the muscle memory back.
 
dmccormack said:
It also proved another rule of thumb -- about an hour dual for every year layoff.
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The held pretty much true for me. I was off 12 years and it took 14 hours for both me and my CFI to be comfortable with my abilities to sign me off.
 
Toughest things for me then and now:
* Wind Awareness
* Fear of Concrete
* Patience
 
dmccormack said:
I think for most people learning to land is not a cumulative as much as a moment -- one moment they can't find the ground with both hands and feet, next the light goes on and the basic principle is revealed.
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I agree...

And then later, after many good landings, you make a real stinker, and realize it's not a knowledge thing in the usual sense... landing well takes a certain kind of attitude. A little lassitude or distraction, and you'll mess it up.
I always say "my worst landing is one I haven't made yet", mostly to remind myself that I'll never "know it all".
 
Private: At first landings, then learning the atc environment.

Instrument: everything. But, i managed to pass...barely. Learning the KLN 94 GPS was hard, only cause there is no simulator for it. It can only be learned in the plane as low low price of $100/hour plus $40/ hour for the instructor.
 
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