More window shopping, which PA-28-180?

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poadeleted3

Pattern Altitude
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A quick glance in ASO shows 6 Mooney 201's at those price points or under and several M20Fs at that price point or lower, there is also an M20G listed at under $50K...all have the larger cabin then my C. Note that I think most of the planes at ASO have higher asking prices then the planes advertised by indivduals in TaP.

Len
 
And soon Anthony will chime in singing the praises of Grummans :D I can't have a Mooney. Didn't Sean tell you? The tails are backwards :rofl:
 
Len Lanetti said:
A quick glance in ASO shows 6 Mooney 201's at those price points or under and several M20Fs at that price point or lower, there is also an M20G listed at under $50K...all have the larger cabin then my C. Note that I think most of the planes at ASO have higher asking prices then the planes advertised by indivduals in TaP.

Len
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Actually, on a serious note, most of the Mooney's in that price range that are listed either need radios and/or engines, or have damage history. Damage history isn't necessarily a deal killer for me, but you can't really do an apples to apples price comparison to a no damage airplane.

Subjectively, there's something about the Mooney's that seems crowded to me. They are nice planes, and certainly effieciency kings, but I think how close the panel is puts me off. I've not flown them, though, just sat in them. Maybe in the air I wouldn't mind so much. Don't know about the passengers, though.

And the head passenger, also known as wife, isn't a huge fan of buying older planes. It's purely a mental thing with her, and with a wife so supportive of flying, why fuss about something that doesn't require a fight? About mid-70s is about as far back as I think I could talk her into adn still have her be happy if/when we ever actually get to buy. Not that I'll be spending $90k when that time comes :)

Besides, both the Skylane and the Mooney, while not exactly the Space Shuttle, have extra gadgets to maintain and pay for. I don't think you can get much simpler and bulletproof in the three/four seat aviation world than a fixed gear, fixed pitch prop, O-360 powered airplane.
 
AdamZ said:
OK so what makes a PA28-180 a "Challanger"?
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1973 was the only year they used that name... IIRC another company selling jets took exception to it. The Challenger has a stretched fuselage, almost all the space going to rear seat leg room which makes them quite nice, a longer wingspan than earlier Cherokee 180s, and a longer span horizontal stabilizer. Still uses the older Hershey Bar wings instead of the tapered wings of the '75 and later Archers. The '74 Archer is the same plane, different name.
 
Joe Williams said:
I like them both. I really liked the Challenger I used to fly, the newer Archer is prettier. The Challenger has a much lower time reman engine, a Garmin 530 and a KX170. The Archer has a mid-time overhauled engine, dual KX-155s, DME, and a KLN-89. And a great useful load for a 180 hp plane. Kinda wondering if both aren't a tad pricey.

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=100017


http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=100783
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I'd agree that they're pricey. At the price I like the 180 better I think.

Small point - the Archer is an Archer II which makes it a PA28-181, not -180.
 
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Joe Williams said:
And soon Anthony will chime in singing the praises of Grummans :D I can't have a Mooney. Didn't Sean tell you? The tails are backwards :rofl:
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I would take a Mooney M20J/201 in a heartbeat. Yeah I'd miss the sporty handling, sliding canopy, owner group etc of the Grummans. but for getting somewhere its hard to beat 160 KTAS on 11 GPH.
 
Anthony said:
I would take a Mooney M20J/201 in a heartbeat. Yeah I'd miss the sporty handling, sliding canopy, owner group etc of the Grummans. but for getting somewhere its hard to beat 160 KTAS on 11 GPH.
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Concur. Lance F did a very bad thing flying me to Gastons...thanks, Lance!
 
Joe Williams said:
Actually, on a serious note, most of the Mooney's in that price range that are listed either need radios and/or engines, or have damage history.
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With a little searching and 80 to 85 large in your pocket I think a person could find a very, very nice M20F. I would say the aircraft would have servicable radios (something like KX155s, perhaps a KNS80, certainly a DME). I think one with a low time engine could be found. As to damage history, something like a properly repaired gear up landing would not botter me if the airplane flew well.

The major differences mechanically between an M20F and a PA28 would be the fuel injection, landing gear and constant speed prop. Additionally, while both the F and the PA28 have flaps most would probably figure the F to have more of a maintenance need.

I'm pretty sure Mooney made F's with the manual landing gear which appears to me to be in need of the least maintenance of any RG aircraft.

While the compairson F might be older as compared to the Piper you get a one piece wing that runs under the cabin as opposed to wings that bolt onto the sides. You also get a lot more speed for the same fuel burn and faster climbs to altitude.

As for sitting close to the panel, for me it was a short adjustment period. Note that there is a rudder extension kit available which I may look into at some point. Also, in the handful of Mooney aircraft I've sat in it appears that the condition of the seat cushion plays a significant role in pilot to panel relationship.

As for Grumman aircraft that same money would buy an excellent example of a 70's era Tiger. It would have digital radios, an autopilot, a modern GPS, probably an HSI and a low time engine. The paint and interior would both be recent. If my only choice was flying around in a Tiger or an Archer I'd pick the Tiger every time.

Len
 
Having owned and done substantial restoration to a PA28, I would venture that is among the easiest to service and most inexpensive to own and operate airframes around. There is a reason that the PA28 has been in continuous production (or nearly continuous) for well over 4 decades. I've got a pretty good number of hours in AA5(x) variants and I like them, but I've never found myself wanting in my PA28-180 by comparison.

If you go shopping in the 75-90K price range with engines <1000hrs, there are a LOT of pretty good aircraft to choose from, everything from late model Maules and American Champions and Huskies to Debonairs and Centurions from the mid 1960's. There are M20F's, Arrows and Turbo Arrows, Vikings, Commanders, Comanches and a pretty good variety of PA28-235's, a few PA32's,

There are some good Tigers in that price range, but not as well equipped as one might hope. I did a run down tradeaplane and found some pretty good Tigers, but a lot of mechanical radios, non-GPS or vfr-only GPS, etc. Not many "dreamboats" in that price range. If your criteria includes a modern IFR GPS and autopilot, the field gets a lot slimmer. I only found one 79 Tiger with a GNS430 listed at $89,000.
 
Joe Williams said:
I like them both. Kinda wondering if both aren't a tad pricey.
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They are. It's funny, I almost posted this yesterday... when I saw it, I thought of you.

For less than $30K, it's not a bad deal. Most Cherokees of this vintage are shotgun panels. If compressions and engine check out, you might have several more years in this before an overhaul is necessary.

http://tinyurl.com/rlekb

The only reason I didn't post it was... oh, never mind. We're supposed to refrain from vendor comments, and it was only hearsay anyway. I'm sure this vendor does good deals, too.
 
larrysb said:
There are some good Tigers in that price range, but not as well equipped as one might hope. I did a run down tradeaplane and found some pretty good Tigers, but a lot of mechanical radios, non-GPS or vfr-only GPS, etc. Not many "dreamboats" in that price range. If your criteria includes a modern IFR GPS and autopilot, the field gets a lot slimmer. I only found one 79 Tiger with a GNS430 listed at $89,000.
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WOW! The prices keep rising on those Tigers. All the more reason to look at the M20Fs & Js.

Len
 
Just my couple pennies, I like the Archer more than the Challenger.:yes:

With fuel prices going up, the prices should go down.

Get the family a plane for Christmas. We all know you won't stop flying anytime soon!
 
Troy Whistman said:
They are. It's funny, I almost posted this yesterday... when I saw it, I thought of you.

For less than $30K, it's not a bad deal. Most Cherokees of this vintage are shotgun panels. If compressions and engine check out, you might have several more years in this before an overhaul is necessary.

http://tinyurl.com/rlekb

The only reason I didn't post it was... oh, never mind. We're supposed to refrain from vendor comments, and it was only hearsay anyway. I'm sure this vendor does good deals, too.
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Troy, to quote Monty Hall, always go with your first impression.
 
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