More user fees

[flyingcheesehead]

You think the federal DOT doesn't love user fees, think again...

http://www.roadsbridges.com/Oklahoma-transportation-official-supports-toll-roads-newsPiece14642

Assistant U.S. Secretary of Transportation Tyler Duvall believes toll roads are the best option for financing roads.

Though Duvall stopped short of recommending more toll roads in Oklahoma, he told a state House subcommittee on Oct. 11 that it is unrealistic to think that roads can be built on a pay-as-you-go system.

States need to consult the private sector for investors who want to build roads with the promise of being paid back by consumers through the government, Duvall said.

...

He also said using fuel taxes to finance highway construction would not be an effective solution because of moves to reduce fuel consumption.

"I don't think it's wise to set in place a program that will fail because of another," Duvall said.

Now, Pennsylvania is trying to turn I-80 into a toll road. If they succeed, and if money-grubbing New York turns the Southern Tier Expressway into a toll road, there will no longer be a good (ie freeway) route from the midwest to the northeast that doesn't come with a toll. Folks, even if you never drive these roads, you'll be paying the tolls. Every product you buy, got there on a truck. Current truck tolls to cross the PA Turnpike are $122.00, and to run the New York Thruway is $120.50. Add that to the $30.50 to cross Ohio and $19.00 (up twice from $12.80 in the last year) to cross Indiana, and you're talkin' some real money.

Interesting point about reducing fuel consumption and paying for the roads, though...

 

[RotaryWingBob]

You're right, of course, Kent. There seems to be opposition to Rendell's plan (which is really plan B, because he originally wanted to lease or sell the PA Turnpike), so there's still some hope. He's never met a tax he didn't like, that's for sure...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You're right, of course, Kent. There seems to be opposition to Rendell's plan (which is really plan B, because he originally wanted to lease or sell the PA Turnpike)

That's a crappy idea too. Daley started the trend by selling the Chicago Skyway, and Indiana shortly thereafter sold their toll road as well.

Results? Tolls for Indiana went from $12.80 to $15.00 to $19.00 in a period of nine months, wait times at the toll booths increased dramatically (often 2-4 mile backups leading into the tolls during the day, and still 10-15 minute wait to pay the tolls at night), and all of the full-time attendants were offered new part-time jobs for 25 hours a week for less money.

Makes the LockMart deal look good.

 

[mikea]

And trucks and cars pay "highway" taxes on fuel too, just like aircraft.

"Say, I gotta idee! Why don't we make those guys who use the roads pay for the roads?"

Maybe besides tolls and fuel taxes they could mandate a mile meter so we can charge by the mile!

 

[Ghery]

Maybe besides tolls and fuel taxes they could mandate a mile meter so we can charge by the mile!

Shush! Oregon is already talking about that (or did they finally wise up and kill that idea?). Politicians. No original thoughts by any of them, of any political stripe.

 

[mikea]

And trucks and cars pay "highway" taxes on fuel too, just like aircraft.

"Say, I gotta idee! Why don't we make those guys who use the roads pay for the roads?"

Maybe besides tolls and fuel taxes they could mandate a mile meter so we can charge by the mile!

Shush! Oregon is already talking about that (or did they finally wise up and kill that idea?). Politicians. No original thoughts by any of them, of any political stripe.

That would be perfection, pay a toll per mile, pay a tax per gallon of fuel, pay a tax per mile.

Let's be more creative. Maybe a tax per tire revolution?

 

[KennyFlys]

That would be perfection, pay a toll per mile, pay a tax per gallon of fuel, pay a tax per mile.

Let's be more creative. Maybe a tax per tire revolution?

Do you recall the ideas a couple years back for putting GPS equipment in each vehicle to track the miles driven for the express purpose of taxation?

 

[kevin47881]

Just one more reason not to live in the snow/rust belt

 

[astanley]

I heard that VA was debating putting tolls up on I-81... if they did that...

OTOH I read a reasonably reasoned article that the cost savings that JIT and Lean manufacturing delivered to investors have been offset by increased fuel taxation and final product costs due to the increased consumption of trucking services versus rail and ship. I wish I could find it... it was a pretty good study.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Skip Miller]

Just one more reason not to live in the snow/rust belt

Please don't believe that the problem is limited to the snow/rust belt.

The fact is the nation's infrastructure is crumbling away. We need massive re-investment to restore what we have, let alone build more. Estimates are that we need an investment of $800 billion to start working on the problem. This includes rebuilding roads, bridges, airports, water and electric distribution networks, etc. The problem is really huge.

Equally clear is that government can no longer afford to do this. They used to fund this through issuing municipal and state bonds. However, the spending programs now in place have killed the bond ratings so that the governments no longer can borrow enough money to do the job. And we taxpayers would throw the bums out of office if they tried to tax their way back to solvency. Yes, we should get rid of all the entitlements programs and restore fiscal prudence but ... lets not get into that now. Even if we really started down that path the infrastructure would fall apart first. We need $$ now.

We're not the first. Britain hit this wall a few years ago, so did Australia. They have privatized large segments of what used to be governmental operations and all of those privatizations survive because of user fees.

Our corporate and public pension funds are being asked to invest in these infrastructure investments, as they seem to be the only pool of capital big enough to have a go at it. But each of the proposed privatizations funded by the pension funds (Illinois tollways is a good example) is expected to make a decent return for the investor, so user fees, and increased user fees, are inevitable. This is most likely the way of the future.

Here is what bums me out. This is just another way of disguising the problem!
Right now, we are paying taxes that maintain the roads (in some form or fashion). Privatize the road, and you start paying user fees. Do your taxes go down the equivalent amount? OF COURSE NOT. This is just a way of 1) providing the government with a few billion dollars of "found" money (god help us if they waste it - *likely*), and deflecting your irate opinion of this mess away from the politicians that caused this mess, and on to the private owners who are front-line raising the tolls.

-Skip

 

[wsuffa]

US DOT threatened to cut off highway funds to Texas after they chose a local public-based consortium to build a toll-road, instead of a private company (Cintra, I think). The Feds were NOT happy that a government-chartered company could do what the private company would do.

Reference:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1673288,00.html

The dot also drafted model legislation for states considering deals and in at least one case--when Texas backed off a deal with Cintra--threatened to withhold funds.

 

[mikea]

US DOT threatened to cut off highway funds to Texas after they chose a local public-based consortium to build a toll-road, instead of a private company (Cintra, I think). The Feds were NOT happy that a government-chartered company could do what the private company would do.

Remember when the not-missed former Senator Santorum floated a bill to prohibit the NOAA from offering weather products created with the taxpayer funded data if his constituent Accuweather wanted to sell the product based on the NOAA taxpayer-funded data?

 

[KennyFlys]

Remember when the not-missed former Senator Santorum floated a bill to prohibit the NOAA from offering weather products created with the taxpayer funded data if his constituent Accuweather wanted to sell the product based on the NOAA taxpayer-funded data?

I recall that. Although I wouldn't mind paying for a quality service directly from the horse's mouth, I still wouldn't do so when my taxes already pay for it.