More TSA Mission Creep - Searching Cars Parked at Airports

I use airport parking all the time. No more, off airport now.
 
more procedures that won't provide any security
 
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
 
TSA doesn't have nearly the track record of the IDF.

A friend suggested it was just getting too tough for TSA to steal iPads from inside the airport so they moved their commercial supply operations to the outer perimeter.
 
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Art VanDelay said:
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
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Why bother blowing up an airport parking lot? A mall or football game would be far more effective. And do you really think a valet on direction of the TSA is going to find anything? If it saves one child's life it is still fascism.
 
Art VanDelay said:
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
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Been there. Rented a car, used it and drove it right up to the entry to the terminal. Besides, making the US more like Israel is not my plan. I want to make the US more like, well - the US.
 
John McCaffery, TSA, said, “No, those vehicles that are in the garage, short term long term parking, even if they carry pretty large amounts of explosives, they would not cause damage to the front of the airport. But for those who use the valet, the car could be there for a half hour or an hour so there is a vulnerability.”
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What a stupid statement...

So I guess it doesn't matter if a bomb collapses a parking structure, killing dozens...just as long as it doesn't damage the front of the airport building...eh?
 
Art VanDelay said:
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
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All of the parking ramps nearest the airport terminals I've been to are non-valet parking. The vehicles are parked and locked by the owners so they couldn't be examined without breaking and entering. The parking ramp operators would have to change the contractual rules and operations to allow any sort of legal searching - not going to happen.
 
timwinters said:
What a stupid statement...

So I guess it doesn't matter if a bomb collapses a parking structure, killing dozens...just as long as it doesn't damage the front of the airport building...eh?
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At White Plains KHPN right after 9/11 the airport security hung heavy wire mesh blankets on the parking structure "windows" facing the terminal building. Ugly as sin. So there are alternative ways to protecting the airport building.

What a bunch of maroons... -Skip
 
Art VanDelay said:
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
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Ever been to CVG? You can drive right underneath the screening area from the interstate.


-VanDy
 
A sign that says your car may be searched -- that sounds like a pathetic workaround for the Fourth Amendment.
 
docmirror said:
Been there. Rented a car, used it and drove it right up to the entry to the terminal. Besides, making the US more like Israel is not my plan. I want to make the US more like, well - the US.
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Yeah, you left out the part about the toll both structure where you would have stopped and opened your trunk while four plain clothes security guards with M-16s stared intently at you.

It's fine if you don't want extra security but in that wish you give up ANY right to ***** and moan when something bad happens "Oh, how could we have let this happen".
 
Art VanDelay said:
Yeah, you left out the part about the toll both structure where you would have stopped and opened your trunk while four plain clothes security guards with M-16s stared intently at you.

It's fine if you don't want extra security but in that wish you give up ANY right to ***** and moan when something bad happens "Oh, how could we have let this happen".
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You fly?
 
DJTorrente said:
TSA doesn't have nearly the track record of the IDF.

A friend suggested it was just getting too tough for TSA to steal iPads from inside the airport so they moved their commercial supply operations to the outer perimeter.
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The IDF is not the agency that conducts the security.
 
So now TSA is deputizing 19 year-old high-school dropout car jockeys to search for bombs,explosives or other such nefarious devices??? Presumably they are being put through very intensive courses to enable them to identify such devices and materials (huge sarcasm hat on)?...:loco::loco:
 
What happens if you give them the valet key that doesn't open the trunk? Have you implicitly given them permission to pop that lock?

What if you have a sealed box in the car? Can they open it?

Do the valets have to split the loot with TSA?

This whole thing smells wrong.
 
genetk44 said:
So now TSA is deputizing 19 year-old high-school dropout car jockeys to search for bombs,explosives or other such nefarious devices??? Presumably they are being put through very intensive courses to enable them to identify such devices and materials (huge sarcasm hat on)?...:loco::loco:
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So, what you're saying is that TSA is increasing their personnel standards?
 
VanDy said:
Ever been to CVG? You can drive right underneath the screening area from the interstate.


-VanDy
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Oh man............ The NSA will read this and you won't be able to sleep at night with noise from all the drones over your house..:eek:;):D
 
Here's the thing: KROC passenger screening is done by private contractor, not TSA. The story says the orders came from TSA. Could this be some ploy to oust the contractors and get fed gov't screeners in there?
 
Art VanDelay said:
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
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Apparently you have not been to Rochester. We're not talking about Tel Aviv here, that's a war zone and an entirely different situation. We're talking about the United States, where there has never been an incidence of an airport being bombed from a vehicle. And it ain't because the crack TSA operatives have prevented them all.
 
So a person who is probably being paid minimum wage as a parking attendant is now not only forced into very dangerous servitude for the U.S. Government, but is also an expert at identifying explosive devices.

C-4 explosives can be concealed in so many different ways that even trained bomb disposal experts can have trouble spotting it. Triggering devices can also be concealed so that an unsuspecting searcher will set it of by making even the most benign of movements.

This so called program is beyond stupidity, therefore it must be a true story. Only a government bureaucrat could dream up such nonsense.

-John
 
VanDy said:
Ever been to CVG? You can drive right underneath the screening area from the interstate.
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When I visited in the 1970s, I was surprised to learn that the West Berlin Subway went underneath East Berlin.
 
bullwinkle said:
Apparently you have not been to Rochester. We're not talking about Tel Aviv here, that's a war zone and an entirely different situation. We're talking about the United States, where there has never been an incidence of an airport being bombed from a vehicle. And it ain't because the crack TSA operatives have prevented them all.
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No, just a federal building in Oklahoma City and a Marathon in Boston. You guys are right lets not have any security at all it's just a big waste of time and money. :rolleyes:
 
Art VanDelay said:
No, just a federal building in Oklahoma City and a Marathon in Boston. You guys are right lets not have any security at all it's just a big waste of time and money. :rolleyes:
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Would searching of valet-parked cars have prevented either of those two explosions?

In the first one, either searches would have needed to be made of every vehicle parked near the building or no parking should have been allowed within a certain distance.

In the second one, either searches would have needed to be made of anything carried by anyone where crowds were likely to gather, or no crowds should have been allowed within sight of the runners. Or crowds not allowed anywhere.

I do not know what level of security and limitations of freedom of movements is used in Iraq and Afghanistan to prevent or minimize bombings, but the news seems to indicate that it is either insufficient or somewhat futile.

There is also the question of what the TSA could have done to the company if it had not complied with the TSA's alleged order.
 
Art VanDelay said:
No, just a federal building in Oklahoma City and a Marathon in Boston. You guys are right lets not have any security at all it's just a big waste of time and money. :rolleyes:
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Both false flag operations.:lol: Israel security works because profiling is a big part of it, we are too faggy to profile in america. So we get nonsafety producing fascism, yeah, please can wehave some more?
 
Art VanDelay said:
No, just a federal building in Oklahoma City and a Marathon in Boston. You guys are right lets not have any security at all it's just a big waste of time and money. :rolleyes:
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You are missing the point.

If you want security, do actual security procedures appropriate to the risk.

TSA doesn't know s**t about security.
 
.Suicide detonation.
.Remote detonation (cell phone).
.Timed detonation (clock or acid fuse)
.Movement of trigger detonation.

Only one of those options could prevent a explosive from being triggered, the timed detonation, if whoever was inspecting the vehicle caught it in time.

Does the TSA honestly believe that searching valet parked cars will stop a car bomb?

Is it possible that terrorists using such a method would consider the type of trigger in their planning?

This is nothing more than TSA theatrics.

-John
 
Tomorrow's news: The TSA has set up check points on freeways NEAR airport to completely search all trucks passing by.

Beirut, ya know. OKC.
 
It Wasn't Us, TSA Says :rolleyes:

the official statement is essentially innocuous: "Each airport authority, along with their state and local law enforcement partners, is responsible for securing airport property, including the outer perimeter.” The rest of the response, such as it is, is on-background and off-the-record — two categories for disseminating information that annoy the hell out of me. Often, information is given out that way in order to lob untraceable spitballs at somebody else.
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A spare tire could be packed with explosives, would a valet car parker be able to spot that in a quick search?

This would make sense if the cars were being inspected by trained dogs able to sniff out explosives, along with experienced handlers.

-John
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
It Wasn't Us, TSA Says :rolleyes:
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huh - the original new report said TSA DID admit to at least KNOWING about it. They didn't say they DID it, but they didn't say they didn't - just that the only cars being searched were the valet parked cars.

>>
That's what News10NBC wanted to ask the TSA director about. We reached him by phone.

Berkeley Brean asked, “Are the cars in the short term lots and long term lots getting searched as well?”

John McCaffery, TSA, said, “No, those vehicles that are in the garage, short term long term parking, even if they carry pretty large amounts of explosives, they would not cause damage to the front of the airport. But for those who use the valet, the car could be there for a half hour or an hour so there is a vulnerability.”
<<
 
Art VanDelay said:
If I were a bad guy that seems like a pretty logical place to get a lot of explosives reasonably close to the airport. Apparently none of you have ever been to Tel Aviv.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the fact that I could drive a whole van full of explosives right up to the front door... :nonod::crazy:
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
It Wasn't Us, TSA Says :rolleyes:
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That is not what I read. This is a non-denial denial. The TSA did not unequivocally say that they did not search cars in the valet lot. What they said was, that it was not their responsibility to secure those areas. It is carefully crafted to be a non-denial of the accusation. Made famous in the Watergate era by agents of the fedgov.
 
This is my observation on the entire subject - the vast majority of you reject the notion of having someone telling you what to do. And no, I'm not talking about the stupid valet issue either I'm talking about the TSA in general. You feel that having someone that was working at McDonalds a week ago talking surly to you is not acceptable because you are clearly better then them. Additionally you're frustrated that they can't seem to clearly see that you're a good guy - the nerve of them !

As an airline pilot I probably have had to deal with them far more than ANY of you up until very recently when they FINALLY came out with the Known Crew Member program. Much like getting pulled over for a speeding ticket - I don't like dealing with them at all. But does that mean that we should disband the Highway Patrol ?

Yes, they are a bunch of retards and misfits but you're NEVER gonna get Delta Force or Seal Team Six to do that job - it just ain't ever gonna happen. You guys and rant and rave all you want about this and it doesn't change anything. What's worse is when one of you throw a little hissy-fit and act like a little ****y little ***** - you just ain't gonna win but keep it up cuz it is very entertaining. And trust me, I know exactly how you feel I am a sworn Federal Officer as one of the guys that get to carry a gun on board but when I'm not on mission status I was subject to the same stupid crap as all of you (until KCM). There have been times when I got so ****ed at their Mickey Mouse BS I wanted to take off my entire uniform and walk thru buck-ass naked. A move which would have gotten me instantly fired so I'm glad I didn't but I recognize the frustration.

Now here's the part YOU don't know - we find stuff a couple times a month on our aircraft that YOU never hear about. Most recently a bunch of big hunting knives rapped in a towel behind the last row of First Class. Nobody knows how they got there or how long they had been sitting there. There are other examples as well but I'm not going to go into more detail.

Go ahead rant and rave all you want about them but just like the highway patrol I for one am not ready to cut the freaking knuckle heads loose unless you guys have something viably better.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Both false flag operations.:lol: Israel security works because profiling is a big part of it, we are too faggy to profile in america. So we get nonsafety producing fascism, yeah, please can wehave some more?
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FALSE FLAG !!! Oh, so I guess that means no children REALLY died in the OKC bombing. False Flag - you really didn't just lose your legs ! I don't care if the perpetrators are Al Queda or John Birtchers - your just as freaking dead.
 
Now here's the part YOU don't know - we find stuff a couple times a month on our aircraft that YOU never hear about. Most recently a bunch of big hunting knives rapped in a towel behind the last row of First Class. Nobody knows how they got there or how long they had been sitting there. There are other examples as well but I'm not going to go into more detail.
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But, doesn't that prove their point?
 
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