More thoughts on instructing

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ronnieh

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Ronnie
I have read all seven pages of the thread started by Greg. For the most part I understand where he is coming from. He got a lot of advice and comments. Everything from encouragement to a kick in the azz.
Though this is mostly addressed to Greg I am sure many will have a comment.
Greg, it MAY help to understand what instructing is and is not. You have already discovered it is a stepping stone for many to be able to build hours at somebody's elses expense. Also, it requires very little knowledge or experience to be an instructor. (Settle down guys, this is not all instructors and many instructors are very experienced and very knowledgeable). An instructor could easily have less than 300 hours TOTAL time with maybe less than than 30 cross country and close to 100 of the 300 could be dual received. Point is don't expect too much from your instructor. Some would argue that the requirements for the instructor ratings should be much higher. But, that is another thread for which I have already been accused of bashing instructors.
Some have said learning to fly is hard. That is takes a lot of didication, skills and so on. At the PP level I respectfully disagree. Let's think about the difference in what is hard to learn and what is not. Minimum standards for the PP is 20 hours of instruction and 20 hours of practice and pass a multiple choice written. Yes some take longer and I will address that in a minute. Would you guys really say that something that the governing agency says takes 20 hours of instruction is hard? Really? Now heart surgery is hard, learning to fly a small simple plane to PP standards is not hard. As far as actual hours needed, I know life happens. Training gets interupted, family emergencies, loss of job, and many other things can extend the hours needed but, that does not change the basic premise that only a few hours of training are needed to get your private. I looked up my original log book. I had 5.6 hours when I soloed, when I took my check ride I had 21.3 hours total of dual and 43.1 total. That was a long time ago and I suspect there is more to learn today. I have not instructed any in 15 years so I know things are different but, not that different. I will concede another 30% in hours needed today compared to when I got my private. A side note when I soloed I was paying $13 / hour for a C150...wet and $8/hour for the instructor who only charged hobbs time for instructing.
So, Greg, you may be running into instructors who are instructing to build hours and do not care how long it takes you to learn. You do need to try and avoid those. But remember it is not rocket science and you are not training to be a heart surgeon. Heck, I bet it takes more than 20 hours to teach a person who has never been in a car how to drive.
My personal oppinion and one that will get me flamed on this forum is that you should set down with any potential instructor, ask him point blank about the required hours. If he does not expect to solo you in less than 10 hours and expect to have you ready for a check ride with no more than 33 hours dual I would move on. Of course, some schools build more time into the program for economic reasons and you can not fly once a month and expect this either. I am talking about the individual instructor perhaps with his own airplane and you commit to lessons twice a week. Expectations will have to be modified to fit your particular situation.
As I said above, this is not rocket science, you will know very little about flying when you finish. You will or should meet the minimum standards set forth by the FAA to get a little piece of plastic saying you are a private pilot.
I know watching the money being burnt and not getting the instruction you think you should get is hard. I don't remember if you are wanting to fly as a profession or not. If not, you need to accept that a private certificate has no practical purpose and is very expensive to not only get but to maintain. And if you should actually want to use it for recreation then it gets obscenely expensive. I am not saying to not get your private, it can and should be a lot of fun.
Being so young you have not experienced the dissapointments in life that many here have. I think this explains some of the negative comments you have gotten. In the grand scheme many of us know you are experiencing a minor set back. Remember on any forum, you are getting advice from everybody from experienced pilots (perhaps with an instructor rating) to student pilots who know no more than you do. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is who.
I would urge you to contact a couple of the instructors on POA by PM, email, or perhaps a phone call. I think there are some here that actually are dedicated to teaching and their advice could be quite useful.
The best of luck!!
 
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Good thoughts.

CFIs are people -- we all struggle with adapting to people, conditions, expectations. Sometimes we get it right. But not always.
 
Measuring time to solo has become a meaningless number in many schools, simply because their syllabi include many more elements prior to solo. If a student asked me to estimate the time required, I'd tell him the best I've seen so far was 40.1 hours, the worst had several hundred. If he can tell me up-front which category he will fall within, I'll be able to narrow the range of estimated time.
 
wabower said:
Measuring time to solo has become a meaningless number in many schools, simply because their syllabi include many more elements prior to solo. If a student asked me to estimate the time required, I'd tell him the best I've seen so far was 40.1 hours, the worst had several hundred. If he can tell me up-front which category he will fall within, I'll be able to narrow the range of estimated time.
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The best student took 40 hours to solo?
 
Let me add a couple things. Wayne, I said some schools add elements for economic reasons. Mostly to enhance revenue. But, JMO, I would not keep a student that took 40 hours to solo. In fact at about 12 to 15 I would suggest I was not capable of teaching him and suggest he move on. The solo may be meaningless to you and perhaps others. But, to most PP students it is a mile stone and can be rewarding as a sign that he is doing well. To each his own.
A person wanting a private for recreational use I think is better served by the free lance instructor. However, if you want to fly as a profession then the school may be quicker in the long run.
I do need to clarify one thing. An instructor that is building time for a career is not necessarily a bad instructor. There must be a path for professional pilot wannabes to get time. Some of these guys really enjoy instructing, take it seriously and can be quite good. But, they may leave you in the middle of training. It is what it is.
I thought for Greg it might be better to get a free lance, not depending on instructing to eat nor build hours. I simply thought the continuity might be better. I will defer that to instructors currently teaching.
 
Is this classic internet communications issues? I'm sure some of those "40 hour" comments were tongue in cheek (at least I sure hope so) but I'm not sure about all of them - not a single smilie anywhere.
 
ronnieh said:
But, JMO, I would not keep a student that took 40 hours to solo. In fact at about 12 to 15 I would suggest I was not capable of teaching him and suggest he move on..
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Wow, seriously?* I took 27 hours to solo because I soloed in Indiana in the spring and we deal with crosswinds, particularly that time of year.* I was of course ready earlier but the winds didn’t cooperate so I’d fly with my instructor…better than skipping a chance to fly just because I couldn’t go alone, right?* Pushing a student onto another instructor because they can’t solo in 15 hours is narrow-minded…there are usually other factors at play.* No instructor could have soloed me any earlier because of constant 10 knot or whatever crosswinds.

Also, to the OP of the other thread, take the comments about young CFI’s with a grain of salt.* I got my CFI at 21, and had no interest in flying for the airlines or building time.* All the instructing I did was because I loved to fly and loved to teach.* All you have to do is ask why they’re instructing…don’t like the answer, move on.* But don’t discount young CFI’s because you think they are time builders.
 
ronnieh said:
I had 5.6 hours when I soloed, when I took my check ride I had 21.3 hours total of dual and 43.1 total. // My personal oppinion and one that will get me flamed on this forum is that you should set down with any potential instructor, ask him point blank about the required hours. If he does not expect to solo you in less than 10 hours and expect to have you ready for a check ride with no more than 33 hours dual I would move on.
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The above is a fabulous example of so-called "Curse of the Gifted". Also! The addressee already jumped 10 instructors and the suggestions is to keep changing them? Really?

P.S. I soloed at 30 and passed at 76.
 
Due to the controversy from the other thread, I sent Greg my thoughts on CFIs in a PM. Thank you for starting a new thread and taking the time to write all this.
 
Sunlight, you missed my point completely. If you were ready to solo but weather prevented it, I am not talking about you. You could have been in a car accident, got sick and needed surgery, any number of things. I covered that in the original thread. I stand by what I said. If you are not ready in 10-12 hours you need another instructor or another hobby.
Pete, the OP never had a conversation liike I suggested. He just moved on. He should have interviewed his potential instructor. Not sure what is meant by curse of the gifted. But, there were three of us, good friends that took our check ride the same morning (a DPE could give as many check rides as he wanted to back then in a day). DPE flew to Guntersville, AL, gave all three check rides then went with him and our instructor for lunch. We were all three with in a couple of hours of each other in both dual received and TT at the check ride. Just a different time.
Seems to me the rage now is to drag it out as many hours as possible. More revenue I guess:dunno:
 
ronnieh said:
Sunlight, you missed my point completely. If you were ready to solo but weather prevented it, I am not talking about you. You could have been in a car accident, got sick and needed surgery, any number of things. I covered that in the original thread. I stand by what I said. If you are not ready in 10-12 hours you need another instructor or another hobby.
Pete, the OP never had a conversation liike I suggested. He just moved on. He should have interviewed his potential instructor. Not sure what is meant by curse of the gifted. But, there were three of us, good friends that took our check ride the same morning (a DPE could give as many check rides as he wanted to back then in a day). DPE flew to Guntersville, AL, gave all three check rides then went with him and our instructor for lunch. We were all three with in a couple of hours of each other in both dual received and TT at the check ride. Just a different time.
Seems to me the rage now is to drag it out as many hours as possible. More revenue I guess:dunno:
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Strongly disagree about "solo in 10-12 hours" That varies widely based on the airport location (airspace, TFRs, towered or not, etc).

You know what they call the guy who took 33 hours to solo and stuck with it?
.
.
.
.
.
"Captain", years later when he walks up to the 747-400 he's taking on a Transpacific flight. I know a guy who meets that description.
 
Tim, we will just have to agree to disagree:)
 
I'm going to agree with Ronnie, as you can go SP and get your ticket in 20 hours!
 
jmp470 said:
I'm going to agree with Ronnie, as you can go SP and get your ticket in 20 hours!
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The FAA has a rather long list of solo requirements in section 61.87 that a CFI is required to teach to a point the student is safe and proficient at. I suspect, but maybe I'm wrong, that you and Ronnie are not up to date on the latest requirements.
 
Well Jim I drug my old logbook back out. I had to have been taught the applicable parts of part 61 and 91. I had passed my written before solo. Will that count? You must know the airspace rules and proceedures where you will solo. That is logged in my log book. Also I allowed an additional 30% in a previous post for solo at a controlled airport. That should be enough. There are 15 items listed in 61.87 and all of those are listed in my log book. I admitted I had not instructerd in many years but it appears the requirements have changed little. Most of those requirements are covered in normal lessons in the first 4-5 hours.
Look, if it takes a person 20 hours to solo, so be it. All I said was I could not as an instructor drag it out that long. When I did instruct a little I did not do joy riding. The student would be tired, not exhausted, but tired after a lesson. He got his money's worth.
If it is taking 30 hours to solo and 60 hours of dual it is no wonder that the pilot population is shrinking. $15K+ for a freaking PPL is enough to scare anybody away.
 
ronnieh said:
Well
Look, if it takes a person 20 hours to solo, so be it. All I said was I could not as an instructor drag it out that long. When I did instruct a little I did not do joy riding. The student would be tired, not exhausted, but tired after a lesson. He got his money's worth.
If it is taking 30 hours to solo and 60 hours of dual it is no wonder that the pilot population is shrinking. $15K+ for a freaking PPL is enough to scare anybody away.
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You've been reading too many conspiracy theory books. The reason for solo at 16-18 hours is that the schools have redesigned their programs to teach a lot of stuff as pre-solo rather than post-solo. The instructor doesn't spend any more time in the airplane, the student is simply taught more stuff prior to solo. It's not a rip-off, in fact it's arguably a better system than turning some guy loose with less than 10 hours. Most students can't process all of the information necessary to handle radio communications and all the other demands of flying at a busy big-city airport in a few hours anyway.
 
ronnieh said:
...But, JMO, I would not keep a student that took 40 hours to solo. In fact at about 12 to 15 I would suggest I was not capable of teaching him and suggest he move on....
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That's ok. I would not keep an instructor who expected me to solo in less than 12 to 15 hours or else.
Good thing there are all kinds out there.
 
Don't read conspiracy books. You posted your best student took 40.1 hours to solo. I just assumed there were a few things left to learn after the solo. Maybe I need to quit reading the posts on this site.:dunno:
 
Joe, that would have worked out good for both of us.
 
I agree Greg. As I stated if I had a student that was not ABLE to solo in what I consider a reasonable time I would quit wasting his money. If I thought it was me I would suggest another instructor. If it was the student I might suggest he take up knitting as a hobby. (just kidding, sort of).
Look, I did not intend for this thread to take this turn. It was intended for Greg. He stated a large percentage of students do not finish their private training. One reason MIGHT be shear frustration. We are a results orientated people. I used the solo to give a sense of achieving results for the student. My limited experience is that the solo gives students a source of pride and accomplishment. The solo cross country is the same thing. Can the solo be put off untill 15 hours, of course. My question is why. Some on here say their students are not smart enough to solo quicker than 15 hours. Wabower's can't do it in less than 40 hours. I simply do not agree. Week after week and thousands of dollars and what do you have to show or brag about? "I have 20 hours of instruction and I can still ride around the pattern with my instructor". Where I got my private the shirttails were hung up on display at the FBO with the date, aircraft N number and instructor's name. Later the date of the first solo cross country.
I am not telling you how to instruct. Maybe, just maybe if there was a little more excitement, milestones to look forward to, students might not get bored and frustrated so quickly. There needs to be an element of fun. For many this is a hobby. I think the LSA was an attempt to recapture some of this. Never compromising safety, recognizing that some airports will require another hour or two for the solo. Come on guys, you trying to tell me to use up 3/4 of the required dual to solo a student? If you don't figure something out, there will be no students to worry about soloing. Again we will just have to agree to disagree.:dunno:
While on a roll let me add by way of edit: I have followed Kimberly's saga. If I remember correctly she had a lot of hours when she took her checkride. I don't know how many total dual she had nor how many she had at solo. I have admired her attitude. She loves anything concerning airplanes. She is excited, and eager to learn all she can. She likes to hang around the airport. It is refreshing to see that in a person. I will admit I do not see how she has been able to keep such a positive attitude. As much as I loved aviation when I started flying I could have never made it going through what she has been through. I had no thoughts of being a corporate pilot when I began, like Kimberly I just loved it. To see her struggle, skimp and save to get an hour or two of flying is inspirational. There are not many students left that will do what she has done. Most are like I was, things get tough, just throw in the towel and move on. You instructors out there that want to drag the training out for 80 hours, are not going to be able to find enough Kimberlys to keep instructing. Sopmething to think about. And Kimberly, GOOD FOR YOU!
I have stored my soapbox away.
 
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Hmm... I understand that learning to fly can be frustrating. Pretty much every student goes through a learning plateau (often before solo) where they're ALMOST ready and make very little improvement, often over multiple lessons. We can encourage them, and tell them to stick with it.

But if a student is not able to deal with frustration and persevere, and keep a reasonably cool head while doing it, they may not be suited for the responsibilities of being a pilot. Flying is full of frustration. Weather issues, mechanical issues, medical issues, all have to be dealt with in a safe way. Get-home-itis is a frustration issue, as is flying with a known deficiency on the airplane or a medical problem.

The new wave of flight instruction, scenario based training, tends to de-emphasize the solo, and puts it even later in the syllabus. On the other hand, it emphasizes practical and fun uses for airplanes, substituting trips for drill, and getting aeronautical decision making and other stuff into the student early. So far, it seems to create ready pilots in the same amount of time as the "old" way, and to me at least they are a bit more well-rounded.

While flying may be a hobby, it's a hobby that can kill you or others, so unlike Tennis or Golf, there's a certain amount of rigor required, and a minimum bar to pass before you are trusted to "play" without supervision.

I've asked some folks who gave up their reason for quitting, and in most cases it wasn't the CFI, or even the training environment. Sometimes they ran out of money, but often they just didn't have the level of passion for it to do the work to cross that bar.

Lowering the bar isn't really the solution. Whatever can be done to nurture and grow that passion is really the only thing. You need to want this, really want it, as opposed to "wouldn't it be nice if I was a pilot?" I'm often envious of folks when I see them do their "thing" but at heart I know I'm not willing to make the sacrifices they made to do it. And I'm sure that they aren't willing to make the sacrifices I've made to get really good at the things I'm really good at.

So there's a time to fire your CFI, and there's a time to fire your student.

For the student. you fire your CFI when you feel he's not working to help you reach your goals or that you don't have confidence in him/her.
For the CFI, you fire your student when you are convinced they're unsafe, or a danger, or when you can't figure out how to help them - though in the last case a good CFI will reach out to his mentors for help, either for a new technique or for a reference to a CFI that can help this student.
 
I have been a pilot for more than 30 years and have never heard a more succinct or better explanation for difficulties the student and instructor share when ultimately the student fails to grasp rudimentary training.

I teach motorcycle riding and to a point the CFI and the Ridercoach are faced with telling the student they feel the student may be more suited to another endeavor. Of course, learning to fly is a much more difficult and substantially longer process than one weekend on the range where the novice motorcyclist can learn to ride and if he/she passes a rather easy test they are awarded the motorcycle safety certificate which at least in Texas qualifies them to receive the motorcycle "M" endorsement on their drivers license.
 
As it turns out, since I am now an instructor at a university, I am suddenly an expert. I wouldn't even have to take the FOI exam.:rofl:

We have to ask - why is the student spending the time and money to go through the training? What do they expect to do when they get the ticket? I think that the answers will vary quite a bit. Someone who dreams of being an airline pilot so they can strut around wearing shirts with dork bars has different motivation than some doof like me who is happy putzing around in a little taildragger.

The goal of the training may be to get the student their ticket (final "milestone") but when it is a long drawn out process, you need intermediate goals and milestones to keep the student motivated and keep moral up. Exactly what things a student might think of as an accomplishment can be a function of what the students longer term objectives are. For an ATP wanabe first solo may be no big deal. A "wings" pin that they can put on their uniform may be more important than getting the shirt tail cut off. Keep it professional. A sport pilot guy would probably have a lot more fun with the shirt tail thing and an early solo would mean a lot.

But there needs to be many little markers for progress for many students. Something that they can look at as tangible evidence of progress. Here at school - they can count off the credit hours completed and their grade point average. (Interestingly enough, everyone becomes an engineer with about the same number of hours - eh?). And because they want a good grade to help them get a good job, I can use fear to motivate them to study and do the homework (I tell them that if they don't get it, don't worry - they will do better when they take the class from me again next semester). For someone looking for a career the same fear of a bad grade would work as a motivator. But for the recreational pilot - probably not. For them, if it's not fun, why do it? (Ok, for the record, I do try to inject fun into the class as best I can - I don't JUST threaten them with exams and stuff.)

What could be done to give the student a sense of progress? A feeling of "I'm xx% of the way to my goal". Is the goal in site? I don't have good answers to those (Oh, I guess I'm not such an expert after all). But, I think these are things that could help keep the student motivated and engaged.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What could be done to give the student a sense of progress? A feeling of "I'm xx% of the way to my goal". Is the goal in site? I don't have good answers to those (Oh, I guess I'm not such an expert after all). But, I think these are things that could help keep the student motivated and engaged.
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It all varies with the student. For some, grades help. For others, just a sense that the instructor is satisfied is all it takes.

Thinking more about this, I feel pretty strongly that in many many flight schools a student gets shortchanged on quality instructor interaction AFTER the flight. Usually there's a rush to get the log filled out and get the student out the door and get ready for the next one. To me that's a shame, because the debrief-review is the time for the instructor to ensure that the student leaves on a positive note, no matter how the flying actually went. The airplane is a lousy learning environment for all but the psychomotor stuff, so making sure the mental things are really getting learned and "stuck" is best done on the ground before and after the flight.
 
Thank you Capt. Geoff. At least there is one other out there. It was getting a little lonely.
 
ronnieh said:
<snip>I had 5.6 hours when I soloed, when I took my check ride I had 21.3 hours total of dual and 43.1 total. </snip>
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Sorry, you are not the average. It's like the TV commercial, "I lost 100# in 60 days!!" Well, actually, nobody is average. We are all individuals in one way or another. I am not average, either. It took me over a year to lose 35#. It took me 200 hours to solo. The day I earned my PPL, I brought my total logged hours to 300. Neither figure counts the flights where I had just given up and didn't log hours. Believe me, no one was trying to build time on my dollar. At least, not after the first few lessons.

Hubby, who is a flight instructor has told me that he considers me the hardest nut to crack. When he questions how a student is seeing the problems differently from how he sees them, he asks me and I tell him. Thank God, none of the 13 instructors who came and went during my primary training ever told me that I would not make it. It was bad enough when they disappeared without a word. At least you say you would have the courtesy to call it quits to my face. Thank you.

I tried over and over again to land exactly the way various instructors said it had to be done before finally finding one who evaluated my ability to feel the airplane and see what was happening and accepted that I couldn't just "follow instructions." He sat back and let me unload all those imperatives and get to know how to fly the plane. When I asked what happens if I do this, he always responded with, try it. Now, I can land the plane with finesse. (usually) :yesnod: But, not the way Hubby does it and not the way my instructor does it.

I feel the frustration of the student who is having a bad time with poor instructors. The problem is, as implied above, no two of us are the same. You have to find the instructor who can teach you well and who will stick with you if you stick with him/her.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Sorry, you are not the average. It's like the TV commercial, "I lost 100# in 60 days!!" Well, actually, nobody is average. We are all individuals in one way or another. I am not average, either. It took me over a year to lose 35#. It took me 200 hours to solo. The day I earned my PPL, I brought my total logged hours to 300. Neither figure counts the flights where I had just given up and didn't log hours. Believe me, no one was trying to build time on my dollar. At least, not after the first few lessons.

Hubby, who is a flight instructor has told me that he considers me the hardest nut to crack. When he questions how a student is seeing the problems differently from how he sees them, he asks me and I tell him. Thank God, none of the 13 instructors who came and went during my primary training ever told me that I would not make it. It was bad enough when they disappeared without a word. At least you say you would have the courtesy to call it quits to my face. Thank you.

I tried over and over again to land exactly the way various instructors said it had to be done before finally finding one who evaluated my ability to feel the airplane and see what was happening and accepted that I couldn't just "follow instructions." He sat back and let me unload all those imperatives and get to know how to fly the plane. When I asked what happens if I do this, he always responded with, try it. Now, I can land the plane with finesse. (usually) :yesnod: But, not the way Hubby does it and not the way my instructor does it.

I feel the frustration of the student who is having a bad time with poor instructors. The problem is, as implied above, no two of us are the same. You have to find the instructor who can teach you well and who will stick with you if you stick with him/her.
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Aunt Peggy, you rock! Thanks for that most inspirational post! It's just what I needed today.:)
 
AuntPeggy said:
I tried over and over again to land exactly the way various instructors said it had to be done before finally finding one who evaluated my ability to feel the airplane and see what was happening and accepted that I couldn't just "follow instructions." He sat back and let me unload all those imperatives and get to know how to fly the plane. When I asked what happens if I do this, he always responded with, try it. Now, I can land the plane with finesse. (usually) :yesnod: But, not the way Hubby does it and not the way my instructor does it.
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While my primary instructor taught his way of landing, one of the most important things he taught me was something he said over and over again: "Make that airplane do what YOU want it to." Your post reminded me of that, because the implications of that oft-repeated statement are that we have to do whatever it takes (within the limitations of the airplane) to get the needed results of landing safely and under control. Later on, as I had occasion to fly with other instructors, once in a while I would learn a new way of approaching it that helped me achieve a more complete repertoire of tools for achieving the desired results.

As for the controversies in this thread, they remind me of something I have noticed from flying with different instructors over the years: Many of them are certain that their way is THE right way, and that all the other instructors are wrong!
 
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ronnieh said:
you are not ready in 10-12 hours you need another instructor or another hobby.
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That has got to be one of the dumbest comments I have seen posted on this board in a long time.

And I say that as someone who soloed at 8 or 9 (don't have my logbook in front of me right now) and got my ticket just over 40.
 
Fearless, you have your oppinion. The only difference is I am not calling it dumb. My statement may be dumb but, it is true. If you were my student I would in the most diplomatic way I could, offer to find you another instructor. I did not say it was true for all instructors, it is for me. I might go 15 hours if I was seeing solid progress. Some people are not cut out to be a pilot.
 
Pulled out my logbook.

1. Intro flight for over an hour in January 2011 (he only logged one hour) - instructor promised I'd be his student, I had a blast (best time of my life flying over downtown SF and sticking my hand out the open canopy of the LSA), bought all the books, ready to fly and get my certs. Weeks of promises, phone calls, and texts "yes we're gonna fly" despite the winter weather. One day, I am so tired of waiting for my first lesson I just show up at his flight school. He is with another in my plane, the gas guy sees me wait for TWO HOURS, they put away the plane, my instructor leaves WITHOUT SAYING WHY. The gas guy even told him I was there. I never saw / talked to him but emailed him that night asking why we didn't fly and why he ignored me. To this day I've never EVER heard from him and their plane is gone / their school out of business. In fact, my $99 check never got cashed so I guess this one was "free". Very shady operation.

2. Started looking for another instructor / airport / school. The three flight schools / CFI's I'd contacted at the close by airport where I took my intro flight were either too busy for me or never even returned my calls.

3. Found another untowered airport to the North and called the first flight school listed (via google-ing Petaluma Airport Flight Schools). Found my CFI and was impressed. He picked up the phone instead of the receptionist, he wanted to interview ME before he made a commitment to being my instructor (for free) and wanted to discuss my goals. I drove up there within an hour of hanging up the phone with him. He was professional and had 20,000 hours as a CFI. I got excited again and on the path for buying materials and taking lessons per his guidelines.

4. It is now February 2011. After starting my lessons in earnest, regretfully, I joined websites such as StudentPilot (no I didn't join POA for a long time after that). The mixed messages helped yet confused me since I saw how quickly everyone had solo'd and I was not solo'ing. My instructor didn't let me takeoff (unknown to me) until SEVERAL lessons in - the reason I know this is because my takeoff was horrid that day and during our debrief I asked him why my takeoff was so bad. He said matter of factly that it was actually my very first takeoff. I did not LAND the plane (all by myself) until my THIRTEENTH lesson. It is now almost April so you can imagine my frustration. I had TWENTY-FOUR landings leading up to that day. This day was a "milestone" and I had 15.4 hours logged already just to land a plane for the first time.

5. The satisfaction of landing the plane carried me through many more lessons, making me think I would solo soon. We'd gone through the entire PTS (except cross country and instrument and night) and I was performing to standards or close and he was on the controls less and less if at all. Remember, the first landing was on March 26. I went to 1-3 lessons per week when able and my solo wasn't until May 7th - TWENTY-ONE LESSONS LATER. During these 21 lessons I had done the following:

Cried
Threatened to quit
Looked for other flight schools
Gone to other flight schools (big mistake, I hated it) for pre solo landing practice only
Upset my CFI to the point that he wanted to fire me
Etc etc etc.
It was HORRIBLE.

By the time I was at wit's end he had said I was too frustrated so he moved to the post solo stuff like XC and instrument to get my mind off solo. When I solo'd I had 42.1 hours DUAL. My solo lasted .3 hobbs. I had logged (may not be accurate) ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIVE LANDINGS before then. My CFI had been OFF THE CONTROLS for months. I was safe LONG AGO.

You get the idea. Checkride at exactly 90 hours, passed, never hired CFI again (except for the checkout of the other plane so I could fly both).


I didn't mean to "inspire" anyone and there were plenty of times I asked my CFI if I should take piano lessons instead. I felt awful all the time knowing how "easy" it was for other people.

I knew I was stubborn and determined but I had NO IDEA I would stick through something like this. It cost more than double (I had to use a credit card) and I will be paying that off for decades if all I pay is the minimums. I'm trying to do more than that, of course, but it was never my intention to spend (I'm estimating here) over $15,000 - 20,000 on this.


Kimberly
 
This had me curious... I started 3/31/1996 (6 months after getting married).

Solo was two months later on the 18th lesson at 20 hours.

PPL was in December at 70 hours, including my only failed test.

Busy, non towered field. Visits to and through class B Airspace.

I never cried, but I sure got frustrated at times.
 
Kim, thanks for taking the time to write all of that out. Your numbers 4 and 5 are my exact experience. (In the interim of taking lessons, I moved to a different state, and then changed flight schools a few times after I moved due to an assortment of things and all of that set me WAY back with regard to hours).

But! I had the exact same issues... & the further I get with regard to my learning, the more clearly I can see things and I know where I'm headed. When I first started I was just bumbling along without a clear picture of what needed to happen to get me where I wanted to go. I really feel like I'm (finally) making progress now.

Anyway, thanks for all of that! It's definitely helpful to hear how others have fared during this process!
 
Oh and more bad things I just remembered:

After my first solo I wasn't allowed to do a second solo. He had a "policy" that all his students couldn't solo a second time unless they passed the written test to show they were serious about getting their cert. I solo'd on May 7 and by the end of May I'd made an appointment, studied (Kings videos), and passed the written with something like 97% (or maybe it was 95 or something but I know it was "high" and in the nineties).

Still no second solo. We were doing a large amount of cross countries, instrument, cross countries with diversions, etc. I asked why I couldn't solo and he said my landings were not good in the flare.

Between my first solo on May 7 my next solo wasn't until JULY 3. In between there were FIFTEEN MORE DUAL LESSONS.

Part of me thinks he was angry for me going and interviewing even MORE instructors during this time. I thought "solo" meant I could go whenever I wanted. Not to him, I couldn't even solo the second time for 2 months.

After my second solo, things went fast and I knocked out all my cross countries (it was a surprise) in one weekend. That was a lot of flying and I was on a roll.

More obstacles etc to the checkride but things came together and I passed.

What an experience!
 
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