More filing IFR

[mattaxelrod]

This past week I went on my IR x/c. It was a great experience, and even got my first little bit of actual. Had a question about filing though:

On each of the three legs that I filed, the clearance that I got was a different routing. Obviously, that's quite common, but begs the question--why bother filing with a route when clearance delivery is just gonna give you what they want anyway?

Matt

 

[grattonja]

This past week I went on my IR x/c. It was a great experience, and even got my first little bit of actual. Had a question about filing though:

On each of the three legs that I filed, the clearance that I got was a different routing. Obviously, that's quite common, but begs the question--why bother filing with a route when clearance delivery is just gonna give you what they want anyway?

Matt

If you followed my thread below on IFR lite I finally got a clearance basically as filed, on a route where that has not happened before. Sometimes you DO get what you file for. And, sometimes when you have made a trip before and learn what they file, you file for and get what you put in.

I find that the clearance is a lot easier for me to nail down if I do get what I filed for. I am not a big fan of searching for VORs off the chart I am using, when ATC gets whacky. So trying to figure out what they will actually give you is useful in speeding up the process.

Jim G

 

[sere]

This past week I went on my IR x/c. It was a great experience, and even got my first little bit of actual. Had a question about filing though:

On each of the three legs that I filed, the clearance that I got was a different routing. Obviously, that's quite common, but begs the question--why bother filing with a route when clearance delivery is just gonna give you what they want anyway?

Matt

Because that is the rules and sometimes clearance delivery is not able to give you what you want is the only answer I have.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

This past week I went on my IR x/c. It was a great experience, and even got my first little bit of actual. Had a question about filing though:

On each of the three legs that I filed, the clearance that I got was a different routing. Obviously, that's quite common, but begs the question--why bother filing with a route when clearance delivery is just gonna give you what they want anyway?

Many times there are standard routes between airport pairs or regions. These are usually published in the AF/D. Other times there are letters of agreement between various ATC facilities which dictate a certain route. Sometimes those two actually are one and the same, but other times the standard route isn't published anywhere and you either just know the area from past experience, or you take the surprise when the clearance is handed to you. An example of this situation is the west side of the Baltimore-Washington airspace. You can file whatever IFR route you want through or around the west side of Balt.-Wash. airspace, but the clearance you will receive is SCAPE-HGR-MRB around the northwest side. Period.

Many folks advocate looking in the AF/D for the standard route and then filing that route. Personally, my philosophy is that I will never get the route I want unless I ask for it. I prefer to file for the route I want but I also try to find the preferred route in advance so that I know what might be offered.

 

[bstratt]

It also depends on area. Coming back to Chicago from Norfolk a few weeks ago, I received what I had filed until I was in the air when ATC would ask if I preferred to go Direct to Destination (I'm /G). On the other hand you never get what you want around Chicago unless you file for a 100 mile circle to the south - then you may have a chance! I always expect vectors. This time was no different. My flight plan was OXI - JOT - KDPA, on my way to OXI I was given instructions direct JOT - no problem, on my way to JOT I was told to go direct to a position I never heard of - I acknowledged and hauled out my IFR charts - still couldn't find it - back to Center and ask him to spell it phonetically - put it into the GPS and go for it - continue checking maps and then found it - it was an AF for the ILS02 at KDPA, on my way there I'm told go direct DPA and expect visual.

Probably the biggest difficulty I have is when flying IFR in an unfamiliar area (and sometimes familiar) and I get a clearance in the air to a location I can't find on the map. It's always embarrassing to go back and ask for phonetics or "where is that?".

 

[wsuffa]

To add to Ed's comments,

If your traveling near Class Bravo airspace, you can generally expect to be routed around - rather than through - the airspace. There are exceptions, but ATC in many of those areas has the attitude "not in our airspace". That's true even where there are V-routes into the airspace. Houston, for example, will let you go over at 17,000 on the Victor airway that goes east-west... below that, you go to Scholes. Dallas, you need to be in the flight levels to cross the Class B unless you're landing in or under the airspace, in which case you go through it. Some will even keep you outside the airspace and send you on 50-mile detours if you're landing in or under the Class B. Just expect it.

In other cases, routing also can be dictated by flow-control.

Coming out of the West side of the Washington, DC area, I know I can get direct routings beyond a certain point, so that's what I file. Sometimes I get a full-airway clearance from Potomac, yet as soon as I'm handed off, the routing is changed to what I filed.

What scares me are the times I am handed off to another facility, and that facility asks me to give them both my filed and assigned routing because they never received the info from the prior controller. That happened to me on the way back from Missouri this last trip.

As Ed points out, if you fly the route often enough, you'll learn the route to anticipate.

 

[poadeleted20]

Many folks advocate looking in the AF/D for the standard route and then filing that route. Personally, my philosophy is that I will never get the route I want unless I ask for it. I prefer to file for the route I want but I also try to find the preferred route in advance so that I know what might be offered.

Right -- the key is to file what you want, but be prepared for what they are likely to give you.

And when you look in the A/FD, be sure to look for Tower Enroute Control routes in the back (lots of them in the Northeast) as well as the Low Altitude Preferred Routes. Also, just because the airports you are going to/from aren't listed, check other routings going the same way, as the controllers tend to use the LAPR's and TEC's as interstate highways that they'll have you join and get off as required -- they really don't like back roads.

 

[Ryan Ferguson]

In pistons, I simply file direct almost everywhere. Don Brown's angst notwithstanding, I simply don't see the point in trying to outguess ATC. In turbine equipment, it seems to be more helpful to all involved (including the pilot when he calls for the clearance and want to get going right away w/ pax) to attempt to actually file some semblance of a common or preferred route. STARs are assigned much more frequently in jets and it's best to ferret out the correct procedure before blasting off. Fltplan.com is great for this - it will show commonly filed routes for many destination pairs. This is generally how I pick departures, STARs, and routes these days in the busy northeast corridor (and most everywhere else.)

 

[mattaxelrod]

Right--that was sort of the intent of my original posting--why bother trying to outguess ATC? I'll gladly take whatever they give me, but why go through all the hassle of planning a route that I'm not going to need. Why doesn't it work such that people say, I need to depart X for Y at such and such a time, then call for a clearance and have ATC tell them how to get there?

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Right--that was sort of the intent of my original posting--why bother trying to outguess ATC? I'll gladly take whatever they give me, but why go through all the hassle of planning a route that I'm not going to need. Why doesn't it work such that people say, I need to depart X for Y at such and such a time, then call for a clearance and have ATC tell them how to get there?

Real flight example demonstrating why simply taking pot luck from ATC can be a really bad idea.

I fairly regularly fly between S37 (Smoketown, PA, near Lancaster) and either W91 (Smith Mountain Lake, VA, near Roanoke) or IXG (Chapel Hill, NC, near Raleigh). The direct route to either destination is directly through the Washington ADIZ and FRZ--no can do. Regardless of what I file, ATC will normally route me around the west side (SCAPE-HGR-MTN) along a route where the MEA's are 6000'+ and much of the flight is over the mountains. Winter time that is a formula for airframe icing. OTOH, the slightly longer east side routing (DQO-ENO-PXT) can be flown at much lower MEA (~3000'), which most winter days is a formula to stay below freezing levels and/or out of the clouds or icing conditions.

If you follow your strategy of letting ATC assign the route, one day you may find yourself boxed into a really bad spot. For example, on a winter day if I let ATC force me around the Washington west side, when I hit the ice there will be no wiggle room short of declaring an emergency, and if I do that I can expect ATC to extract vengence. However, if I take the time to actually plan the route then I know what I need/want and why. In that case, when ATC overrides my preferred (filed) plan and sends me around the west side I know to negotiate/argue/refuse, and I know specficially what route to request and can explain why I need it.

 

[bbchien]

Real flight example demonstrating why simply taking pot luck from ATC can be a really bad idea.

Potomac Approach simply said, that's not the route and I don't have time to give it to you. Get the AFD or depart VFR, contact me on XXY.YZ and I'll vector you....

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Matt:

In addition to all that's been said above, when I recently flew around the ADIZ and was not highly familiar with the area, I checked with Center for routing. If they have time they will give you an idea of what to expect. Normally, I just file what I want and familiarized myself enough with the area to be able to go to the logical alternatives. Of course, this does not preclude rerouting in the air! (Which they did three times to me) A/FD has provided preferred routes to me several times that were great when going between points covered. When flying, try to look ahead at the next VOR or two--also logical intersections for them to amend your route.

Here in the Dallas area, direct is the norm. Fly the DP going out, then direct. Return direct and be prepared for the STAR when turned over to approach.

Best,

Dave
Baron 322KS

 

[wsuffa]

Potomac Approach simply said, that's not the route and I don't have time to give it to you. Get the AFD or depart VFR, contact me on XXY.YZ and I'll vector you....

Potomac's still better than Chicago....

 

[Alan]

Potomac's still better than Chicago....

Last time is was at MDW, I file direct instead of trying to gues the routing of the day. On callup to C/D, the first thing I heard was "No one gets direct out of Chicago." I replied, "I assumed as much. What is my clearance tonight."

I think he may have got it, but I'm not sure. Then, while sitting at the hold short line I was cleared for takeoff without my giving the tower a call. Fortunately, I was ready to go. They can get pushy.

 

[Ryan Ferguson]

I think he may have got it, but I'm not sure. Then, while sitting at the hold short line I was cleared for takeoff without my giving the tower a call. Fortunately, I was ready to go. They can get pushy.

Let 'em. It's your time, and if you don't want to bother filing something you won't get anyway, don't.

Taxpayers still pay for ATC services in this country!