More "can I log it" questions

dell30rb

dell30rb

Final Approach
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A friend of a friend may give me the opportunity to ride on a few of his trips as a charter pilot. I'm an instrument student and I think this will be a great way to get extra practical experience. I know they transport passengers and sometimes time-sensitive cargo. I'm not sure what types his company flies but I know they operate barons.

I'm really looking forward to this... but my question is how can I log whatever time I may spend in the right seat? I know he is an instructor and probably a multi-instructor as well, if that makes any difference.
 
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If he's a multi-instructor and is willing to give you instruction, you'll be able to log it as multi dual with his signature. You will not be able to log it as PIC, because you aren't rated for multi. You also won't be allowed to operate the controls while he is operating it as a Part 135 charter, only on the part 91 repositioning legs. That said, I think you'll find the time valuable even if all you can do is sit in the back and watch him operate.
 
does anything change if we fly an aircraft I am rated in?

can I log the right seat time during the 135 legs as any type of flight time even if I do not touch the controls?

Thanks!
 
dell30rb said:
can I log the right seat time during the 135 legs as any type of flight time even if I do not touch the controls?
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No, you are a passenger for those legs. If you think about it, how would you justify it? You're not manipulating the controls if you are not touching them, and you are not the PIC. A Baron does not require an SIC and even if it did you wouldn't be qualified to touch the controls on a 135 leg unless you had gone through the operator's 135 training.
 
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dell30rb said:
does anything change if we fly an aircraft I am rated in?

can I log the right seat time during the 135 legs as any type of flight time even if I do not touch the controls?

Thanks!
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Yes and No respectively. If you go get a quick weekend multi rating, any of the time you are sole manipulator of the controls (this is only on the pt 91 legs since you need more qualification to manipulate the controls when under Pt 135) you can log that as PIC.

You cannot log any time as a pilot under Pt 135 operations. Even if it was a 2 pilot aircraft/operation, you would need to do a Pt 135 SIC line check first.
 
I did exactly what you are talking about.
In a Barron also. I am not multi rated.
We always did it on cargo flights only. On the ride out to deliver it, I sat back, enjoyed the view and watched/listened to what was going on.

On the way back, the CFII was an MEI so I got to fly it etc..

The experience will be great. Enjoy what ever time you can get in the plane whether you are flying or not.
 
Thanks for all the clarification. I'm sure he knows the answers to these questions, however I want to look like I have a clue!
 
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markb5900 said:
I did exactly what you are talking about.
In a Barron also. I am not multi rated.
We always did it on cargo flights only. On the ride out to deliver it, I sat back, enjoyed the view and watched/listened to what was going on.

On the way back, the CFII was an MEI so I got to fly it etc..

The experience will be great. Enjoy what ever time you can get in the plane whether you are flying or not.
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Thats cool, exactly what I am expecting / hoping will happen.
 
dell30rb said:
does anything change if we fly an aircraft I am rated in?

can I log the right seat time during the 135 legs as any type of flight time even if I do not touch the controls?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Gotta ask - what 61.51 box do you think you fit in that justifies logging anything?
 
Just so we're clear -- unless you're a qualified SIC on the operator's 135 certificate, you cannot so much as hit the IDENT button for the pilot on a revenue leg. See 14 CFR 135.115:
Manipulation of controls.

No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is--
(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the aircraft; or
(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator who has the permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the aircraft, and is checking flight operations.
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Thus, there is nothing you can do or log on the revenue legs other than observe and learn.
 
Thanks for looking this up.

I appreciate all of you taking your time and answering my questions.
 
BTW, be careful about riding along on "pick up" flights. If the customer shows up with an extra passenger or another 150 lb of freight (and believe me, it happens), you could end up walking home (which has also happened, but fortunately, not to me).
 
Well, does not look like I will be doing any of these flights as I thought! They used to have a baron but not anymore. The smallest aircraft they operate is a king air. He does not fly regular "missions", his primary role is an instructor and check pilot for the jets they operate. My girlfriend told me he was a charter pilot, would love to go flying with me sometime and I guess I jumped the gun!

I spoke with him on the phone last night and he offered to help me in any way he could. I said i'd appreciate a safety pilot/instructor to fly with me to an airport 50+mi away under the hood and shoot some approaches so I could log some hood and x/c at the same time. He laughed and said "been there done that!"

My girlfriend and his wife (they are co-workers) are trying to get us to plan a flying trip to florida or the mountains sometime soon. They won't have a hard time convincing me.
 
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Ron Levy said:
BTW, be careful about riding along on "pick up" flights. If the customer shows up with an extra passenger or another 150 lb of freight (and believe me, it happens), you could end up walking home (which has also happened, but fortunately, not to me).
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You know, that has happened to me. Had to wait for someone else to pick me up.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just so we're clear -- unless you're a qualified SIC on the operator's 135 certificate, you cannot so much as hit the IDENT button for the pilot on a revenue leg. See 14 CFR 135.115:
Thus, there is nothing you can do or log on the revenue legs other than observe and learn.
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Actually, The flight controls may not be manipulated, the radios are not USUALLY considered flight controls. Although I suppose some zealous bureaucrat could see things a little differently.

This is how I earned about 2-300 hours of multi time over the years. Flying the empty legs of many many charters. Allowed it to be an easy transition for insurance when it came time to do the charters myself.
 
Aztec Driver said:
Actually, The flight controls may not be manipulated, the radios are not USUALLY considered flight controls.
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They are around here -- anything in the panel is verboten. Absent an emergency, about the only things a noncrewmember can touch are the seat belts, reading lights, and ventilation controls.
 
Yep... I flew a Cape Air flight recently and the pilot turned out to be one of my former CFIs. He put me in the right seat but said "Sorry, but unless I keel over, you can't touch anything, not even tune a radio".
 
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