Mooney?

[shyampatel94]

I was wondering what Mooney's fly like? They seem so long and it seems like it would be so likely to tail strike the airplane? Are mooney's a good buy? Why or why not?

 

[Henning]

Ask David White, he's got one for sale.

 

[AggieMike88]

1. They fly very nice. They are known as fuel efficient speedsters and travel machines.

2. That could apply to any aircraft... but why would you pull that much AoA on a normal takeoff? Every Mooney pilot I've flown with just allows it to lift off normally, accelerate as it gains a few more feet of altitude, then gently pull for 5-7 degrees of pitch and Vy and climb out normally. Gear comes up when appropriate (usually positive rate and negative return to runway)

3. Yes or no to good buy has too much grey involved. Please refine the question to specific models and mission requirements. Adding in what your purchase budget is will help.

There is a good following and demand for both the early model short bodies and later long bodies. If I was desiring a low wing retract for traveling distances like DFW to Houston and further for solo or with a single passenger, I would take a look at the later M20J's and budget around $100k, give or take $10k. But I would also include some of the Bo's in my search list to.

What is it you really want? You're asking lots of interesting questions, but I haven't detected a distinct focus.

 

[AggieMike88]

Ask David White, he's got one for sale.

Doh! Forgot about that one. And showing it to the OP would be a good opportunity for DW to make a visit home.

 

[bbchien]

...so does cheesehead (Kent).

 

[rbridges]

they suck. stay away from them.




seriously. go to www.mooneyspace.com and you'll find a lot of info there.

 

[Piloto]

In these days were every drop of fuel counts Mooneys are the most efficient, specially the 201 Model. I can easily get 18nm/gal at 150+ kts. For a car that would be 20+mpg at 170+ mph. Unlike the Cessnas and Pipers the Mooney baggage door is on top. This allow to easily pile up baggage on top, a real nice feature when flying with family. Mine has long range tanks for a total of 100 gals . This allows me direct nonstop flights to San Juan, PR thus skipping the Customs hassle. Mooneys are the best for long cross country flights.

José

 

[FastEddieB]

1. They fly very nice.

I like Mooneys.

Never owned one but a lot of hours in them, mostly instructing.

Solid and reliable and an excellent choice.

Rock solid in turbulence, making the typical Cessna or even Piper offering seem a bit "tinny" by comparison.

But personally I would not say they "fly very nice". The ones I've flown were very heavy on the controls. Gives them a "big airplane feel" I suppose, but coming from a Grumman Tiger I was used to sprightlier controls. Even a Cirrus is lighter on the controls.

Especially bad was an M20C that had full time "Positive Control" - to me it always felt like it was fighting me. The owner actually often used a piece of tape to hold down the override button on the yoke.

Some models had corrosion issues, at the wing root, IIRC. Just something to look our for.

And speed control in the landing phase is critical - they'll float forever if you're fast, and do not take kindly to being forced on too soon.

But overall great planes that have stood the test of time.

 

[FastEddieB]

Here's a friend's:

Its an M20E with an added turbocharger and some other mods.

Photo has him and his wife ready to take off from a private strip in Lake Placid, FL.

As an aside, I think its interesting how far we've come:

And that Cirrus manual is only one of many that you get on delivery.

Sheesh!

 

[poadeleted21]

Here's a friend's:

Its an M20E with an added turbocharger and some other mods.

Photo has him and his wife ready to take off from a private strip in Lake Placid, FL.

As an aside, I think its interesting how far we've come:

And that Cirrus manual is only one of many that you get on delivery.

Sheesh!

My original one is the size of the left one, my post lawsuit one is the size of the one on the right. I prefer the earlier one.

 

[Marauder]

Go over to MooneySpace.com and post you want a ride. Lots of willing pilots. I have owned my F model for 22 years. Great plane, stable IFR platform and economical to run when you look at the NMPG ratio.

Of the metal wing Mooneys the major concern is to see if SB-208 has been complied with. The Mooney has a metal roll cage that can rust if moisture gets in. Fuel tanks also need to be resealed or replaced with bladders.

You will find a number of good planes available since most owners are great stewards of what they own.

 

[yakdriver]

I flew a 201 for several years. They are very stable and a great cross country machine. As for going out and yanking and banking it is way too heavy on the controls and not a fun airplane to just go out and play in but that's why it's such a good IFR platform. And I would doubt you could hit the tail on landing. Don

 

[kgruber]

I owned a 201 for several years, and never even heard of a tail strike. Heavy ailerons and huge springs in the elevators make it not that nice to hand fly. They are very strong, efficient and slightly skittish on the ground.

Even with the poor handling I'd have another in a heartbeat.

 

[bbchien]

1000 hours in each M20F and Turbo M20F. There is no ride like a Mooney! (Unless you have 3 women in your life who have to carry the kitchen sink and clothes for every circumstance).

 

[MooneyDriver78]

In these days were every drop of fuel counts Mooneys are the most efficient, specially the 201 Model. I can easily get 18nm/gal at 150+ kts. For a car that would be 20+mpg at 170+ mph. Unlike the Cessnas and Pipers the Mooney baggage door is on top. This allow to easily pile up baggage on top, a real nice feature when flying with family. Mine has long range tanks for a total of 100 gals . This allows me direct nonstop flights to San Juan, PR thus skipping the Customs hassle. Mooneys are the best for long cross country flights.

Where do they put the extra tanks?? Do they use bladders? What does that leave for useful load? How much surgery is involved?

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Here's a friend's:

I have read that Mooneys have the worst engine access, you need a (preferably electric) screwdriver to remove the cowling to check the oil (a two person job).

 

[TMetzinger]

Several hundred hours in mooneys. Great airplanes for single or couple with no or small kids. Not that great for families compared to some others.

 

[Piloto]

Where do they put the extra tanks?? Do they use bladders? What does that leave for useful load? How much surgery is involved?

The long range tanks are in the wing. They are of the intgral type (wet wing) no bladders. Tanks empty weight is 12 pounds. They add up to 36 gallons. Install labor is about 60 man-hours or about two weeks.

More info at: www.monroyaero.com

José

 

[Marauder]

I have read that Mooneys have the worst engine access, you need a (preferably electric) screwdriver to remove the cowling to check the oil (a two person job).

Where do people get this stuff? All model Mooneys have an oil access door to check the oil.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

I have read that Mooneys have the worst engine access, you need a (preferably electric) screwdriver to remove the cowling to check the oil (a two person job).

Where do people get this stuff? All model Mooneys have an oil access door to check the oil.

I guess they read it on the internet so it must be true?

My M20J not only has an oil access door (wow), but I can take both the upper and lower cowl off in about 5 minutes, using nothing but a phillips screwdriver to remove the camlocks.

Seriously, find someone with a Mooney to spend an afternoon with, or browse around on Mooneyspace.com.

 

[Marauder]

I guess they read it on the internet so it must be true?

My M20J not only has an oil access door (wow), but I can take both the upper and lower cowl off in about 5 minutes, using nothing but a phillips screwdriver to remove the camlocks.

Seriously, find someone with a Mooney to spend an afternoon with, or browse around on Mooneyspace.com.

Amen brother! It always amazing to see folklore firsthand.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I guess they read it on the internet so it must be true?

My M20J not only has an oil access door (wow), but I can take both the upper and lower cowl off in about 5 minutes, using nothing but a phillips screwdriver to remove the camlocks.

Seriously, find someone with a Mooney to spend an afternoon with, or browse around on Mooneyspace.com.

How about mooneypilots.com instead, this guy was a test pilot for mooney:
http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20F Evaluation/M20F_Evaluation_Report.html
quoting:
Up front, we come across another pre-J model cowling to content with. I won’t harp anymore on the difficulty in pre-flighting the engine with the cowling design on early Mooneys. I think I’ve beat that subject to death in the articles on the C and E models. At least our test F model had “quick turn” fasteners installed around the upper cowling half instead of sheet metal screws. Even so, a screwdriver was required to do a basic oil level check. Removing and reinstalling the upper cowling, even with the quick turn fasteners, proved to be a 20 minute job. Looking at your engine and accessories before flying shouldn’t be this difficult. And as our airplanes age, looking underneath the cowling often becomes very important to our well being and safety.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Where do people get this stuff? All model Mooneys have an oil access door to check the oil.

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/m20e.html

Mechanically, this cowling isn't any better. Did Mooney's engineers in the 60's ever hear of the term "preflight check of the engine compartment"? There are more sheet metal screws holding this cowling together than you can count. Just like all the other early Mooneys (and the new ones aren't much better), better come to the airport 30 minutes early if you plan to remove the cowling for a proper engine compartment preflight. Or come out the day before if you don't want to keep your passengers waiting in the cold, heat or rain while you struggle with removing and reinstalling 50 or 60 screws.

 

[Marauder]

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/m20e.html

Mechanically, this cowling isn't any better. Did Mooney's engineers in the 60's ever hear of the term "preflight check of the engine compartment"? There are more sheet metal screws holding this cowling together than you can count. Just like all the other early Mooneys (and the new ones aren't much better), better come to the airport 30 minutes early if you plan to remove the cowling for a proper engine compartment preflight. Or come out the day before if you don't want to keep your passengers waiting in the cold, heat or rain while you struggle with removing and reinstalling 50 or 60 screws.

Why don't you come over to MooneySpace.com and talk to some owners instead of quoting an article from someone who had to find a "nearly stock" Mooney to evaluate? Most of the fleet has been updated and what the article talks about are the original design shortcomings.

Here is a picture of my F model that has the original dysfunctional instrument panel they describe:

And by the way, my cowl has screws, 6 of them to be exact. The rest are camlocks...

 

[mondtster]

My M20J not only has an oil access door (wow), but I can take both the upper and lower cowl off in about 5 minutes, using nothing but a phillips screwdriver to remove the camlocks.

Some of the earlier cowls are a little more work to remove, but every one of them I have seen has an access door to check the oil. Clearance between the firewall and the accessories on the back of the engines is tight on these planes though so hopefully your mechanic doesn't have big hands.


Overall, Mooneys fly ok but I can't seem to get too excited about them. If I had the choice to fly either a Bonanza or a Mooney, I'd pick the Bonanza, I think they fly and handle nicer. (I own both a Mooney and a Bonanza right now)

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Why don't you come over to MooneySpace.com and talk to some owners instead of quoting an article from someone who had to find a "nearly stock" Mooney to evaluate? Most of the fleet has been updated and what the article talks about are the original design shortcomings.

Here is a picture of my F model that has the original dysfunctional instrument panel they describe:

And by the way, my cowl has screws, 6 of them to be exact. The rest are camlocks...

This is what they are talking about ( from 67), they probably changed somewhere to standard 6-pack:

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Why don't you come over to MooneySpace.com and talk to some owners instead of quoting an article from someone who had to find a "nearly stock" Mooney to evaluate? Most of the fleet has been updated and what the article talks about are the original design shortcomings.

Thanks for the invite, I will. But the problem with sites like mooneyspace is that the opinions may not be ... unbiased

Your panel is nicer than most, you upgraded to newer yokes, what year is your M20F??

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Overall, Mooneys fly ok but I can't seem to get too excited about them. If I had the choice to fly either a Bonanza or a Mooney, I'd pick the Bonanza, I think they fly and handle nicer. (I own both a Mooney and a Bonanza right now)

Since the devil is in the details, which models do you own?

 

[Marauder]

Thanks for the invite, I will. But the problem with sites like mooneyspace is that the opinions may not be ... unbiased

Your panel is nicer than most, you upgraded to newer yokes, what year is your M20F??

Mine is a 1975. Most Mooney owners are loyal to their plane and will make investments (investments you have no chance of getting all your money back out again). So, that is why I always get a kick out of articles that talk about the plane in generalities. Planes, like people, change over time.

BTW -- the picture I posted was what my plane looked like in the 90s. Attached is what it looks like today.

(Thanks for noticing the yokes. Another change I made to make it easier to add switch updates)

 

[Marauder]

And here is a picture of a buddy's 66E. Nice ones are out there...

 

[Ken Ibold]

I have read that Mooneys have the worst engine access, you need a (preferably electric) screwdriver to remove the cowling to check the oil (a two person job).

Wow, really? I must be a pretty inattentive pilot. In the 3 years I owned a 201 I never noticed that.

 

[mondtster]

Since the devil is in the details, which models do you own?

M20C and an F35.

I've flown M20Cs and Js, 35 series Bonanzas and 55 series Barons. The Beeches just fly nicer.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

In the 80's when I flew a 201, a lot to do about trying to land one, putting spoilers on them on and on. Like all other aircraft, if you fly a mooney by the numbers it's a sweetheart. It reminds me of a porsche I once owned. I had a lot of tail wheel time when I checked out in the mooney and I thought it was easy to fly and lots of fun. I flew out of 2200 ft paved most of the time. Always had run way to spare. There was a flip up door to check the oil. Mechanics did say they were a pain in the ass to work on due to close quarters. I never worked on one.the super 21 had the manual gear which I liked also. Great airplane.