Mooney question - what the heck is that?

[Papa Foxtrot]

I will confess that I'm in the early stages of coveting an early manual gear M20C. Perusing the usual for sale sites and came across this specimen. I'm not that interested in this particular aircraft, but I'm often puzzled by the photos that some advertisers use. In particular, this one:

I'm not sure what the advertiser is trying to show me here, but what the heck is that just below the empennage leading edge? It looks like a cover strip where the tail cone connects to the fuselage, but it appears loose at the bottom. (Note that I've hot-linked the photo, so it may disappear at any moment.)

Just curious as I haven't noticed this in any other ads - of course most sellers don't include shots from this perspective...

 

[Sac Arrow]

I'm going to guess it's either a bad repair or a section of sheeting that's worked loose of its rivets, and the seller is just trying to convey that's an issue that might has to be dealt with.

 

[wanttaja]

I believe the trim system for the Mooney moves the entire tail. That is probably the slot/cover that accommodates the motion.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[TMetzinger]

I believe the trim system for the Mooney moves the entire tail. That is probably the slot/cover that accommodates the motion.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron is correct. the mooney trims the entire tail.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DavidWhite]

Keep in mind with the M20C models it is a wooden wing. You'd be better off getting one of the later all metal models.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Keep in mind with the M20C models it is a wooden wing. You'd be better off getting one of the later all metal models.

No it isn't. M20 and M20A are wooden wings. That's it. I've flown an M20B and its a great airplane if it fits your mission.

 

[DavidWhite]

Woops, I am mistaken. KS is correct.

 

[Clark1961]

Keep in mind with the M20C models it is a wooden wing. You'd be better off getting one of the later all metal models.

Are ya sayin' that you'd rather have metal than wood? What does your girlfriend have to say 'bout that?

 

[bbchien]

The M20Bs I think were wood, but the M20C I teach in, is DEFINITELY metal.

 

[poadeleted21]

No it isn't. M20 and M20A are wooden wings. That's it. I've flown an M20B and its a great airplane if it fits your mission.

And it's my understanding the wood wings were/are a thing of beauty and Mooney only quit making them because of the lack of workers with the skill to make them. IIRC the story is they're faster and provide a smoother ride, also IIRC the WING is wood, not the ribs and spars. I also found that there is still one guy, who's name escapes me, I think in Oklahoma who is a master at maintaining and rebuilding the wood wings. Only the first year (1960??) or two were wood. Also IIRC the rudders were wood to and should have been replaced by now.

 

[poadeleted21]

Are ya sayin' that you'd rather have metal than wood? What does your girlfriend have to say 'bout that?

Which one? He's obviously buying a 170 kt Mooney to visit multiple.

 

[DavidWhite]

I think it's pretty cool that I will be able to be anywhere in the lower 48 in 10 hours.

 

[DavidWhite]

Not to mention I won't have to gas up every 3 hours

 

[poadeleted21]

Not to mention I won't have to gas up every 3 hours

Won't have to as long as you stay away from the ummm... bigger.. girls.

 

[DavidWhite]

I'm just waiting to find a supermodel girlfriend to fly around the country with me in my mooney. (Well, maybe not a supermodel)

 

[LDJones]

The item in question is a cover over the gap between the fuselage and the articulating tail. Looks like a screw is is out...no big deal. It's confusing because where it appears loose is new where you see the skid plate hanging down.

Owned a M20C for 12 years....great little airplanes.

 

[DaveA]

Mark Weibe in Halstead KS is probably who you are thinking about regarding wood wings and their care & feeding. I used to hang out there watching Mark and his dad Gus working on a variety of Bellanca wings along with others, including a wood wing M20 once in awhile. I was trying to decide on a slightly fire damaged M20/150 Lyc that was at Lake Afton/Wichita, then on a Bellanca 14-13, so I pestered them on and off for awhile about those airplanes. I'm no stranger to wood wings and airplanes, having had my hands in Monocoupes, a Staggerwing, a Waco, and a couple of Pitts, but I wasn't up to speed on the Mooney. All the M20's and 20A's had completely wood wings/spars/ribs etc and were skinned in plywood with fabric over them. The M20 had a completely wood empennage, (not sure about the 20A's) but many were replaced with the metal version due to a nonsense AD to the vertical fin spar. Mark built an apparatus to test it if somebody had one that hadn't been modified, and the one I was interested in was such. I ended up with a TriPacer to rebuild instead, but would still consider a wood winged Mooney if the planets aligned and all the resident termites could all be convinced to hold hands while I flew it....

 

[Dav8or]

The M20Bs I think were wood, but the M20C I teach in, is DEFINITELY metal.

Nope. M20Bs are all metal as well. Only the M20 and the M20A are wood. As was already pointed out, the piece in question is the fairing piece that covers the gap between the fuselage and the tail section. This one appears to be missing a screw as it should be flush to the fuselage. IMO, the M20C is the best certified bang for the buck in GA right now.

 

[HerrGruyere]

So wait, the whole empennage moves when the plane is being trimmed? That trim wheel must have some resistance to it. That also seems silly. Are you guys saying that maybe it's just the stabilator that moves when the trim wheel is moved?

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

The item in question is a cover over the gap between the fuselage and the articulating tail. Looks like a screw is is out...no big deal. It's confusing because where it appears loose is new where you see the skid plate hanging down.

Thanks LDJ for a definitive answer to my question! You're right, the skid plate did grab my attention, but that part I figured our for myself.

Owned a M20C for 12 years....great little airplanes.

IMO, the M20C is the best certified bang for the buck in GA right now.

That's why they've got my attention. 140-150 kt cruise at around 10gph, reasonable mx costs with prices about the same as a Cherokee 180. There's also this guy out in California that flies his into backcountry strips out west and post videos on youtube...

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

So wait, the whole empennage moves when the plane is being trimmed? That trim wheel must have some resistance to it. That also seems silly. Are you guys saying that maybe it's just the stabilator that moves when the trim wheel is moved?

Nope. The whole friggin' tail moves with the trim wheel. And it's designed very well with little resistance on the wheel.

Here are photos from the factory assembly line -- you can see the hinge attach point on the empennage below.

http://www.davemorris.com/Photoviewer.cfm?Subdirectory=Mooney Factory Tour

 

[flyingmoose]

Nice pics! Thanks for those.

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

Here are photos from the factory assembly line -- you can see the hinge attach point on the empennage below.

Great photos - thanks for posting! I had been to that site before but didn't remember those pic's.

I always wondered what caused his right gear collapse after the engine overhaul. That link on his site is dead.

 

[steingar]

I've wanted a Mooney for years. Nice ships. Fast.

 

[tonycondon]

i'd love a wood wing mooney. or any other mooney. didn't know the whole tail moved, thats cool.

 

[LDJones]

I have 1200 hours or so in Mooneys (every model from C to S) and they are wonderful flying machines. Just watch for corrosion in tubular steel frame. And I concur that older C models offer a lot of bang for the buck. You can't go faster on fewer $$$ anywhere. But there are maintenance costs. Manual gear will save some annual costs at the expense of a little elbow grease.

 

[denverpilot]

I really enjoyed the C model I flew as a rental long ago. As long as I didn't have to haul a load in it.

As a personal traveling machine, it's hard to beat Mooney numbers for fuel and speed.

That fairing piece/cover is also missing some paint like its been flapping in the breeze for a while. Get it fixed right if you end up buying it. Probably got flexed a whole lot too. Make sure the metal isn't fatigued or I bet that part is relatively hard to find.

Someone let an easy fix go long enough without fixing it to knock all the paint off, looks like to me. Hard to tell from the photo.

 

[Clark1961]

Manual gear will save some annual costs at the expense of a little elbow grease.

And in my case, a little skin. The durn thing bit me. I don't like the C for that reason alone. I shouldn't have to donate skin to fly.

 

[denverpilot]

And in my case, a little skin. The durn thing bit me. I don't like the C for that reason alone. I shouldn't have to donate skin to fly.

ROFL!

Somehow I managed to survive both my Mooney time and my Cessna with Johnson Bar flaps time without needing band-aids around the tips of my right index finger and thumb.

But I have had the Cessna diamond pattern on my forehead.

 

[Clark1961]

ROFL!

Somehow I managed to survive both my Mooney time and my Cessna with Johnson Bar flaps time without needing band-aids around the tips of my right index finger and thumb.

But I have had the Cessna diamond pattern on my forehead.

I lost skin from the back of my hand - something on the passenger seat was sharp and my hand is fat enough that it would scrape the sharp place when I'd lower the gear.

Never had a problem with the flap lever in the Frankenkota.

 

[Dav8or]

There's also this guy out in California that flies his into backcountry strips out west and post videos on youtube...

Oh yes. Bryan is kind of a hero in Mooneyland. I don't have the skills myself, but he does go out there and show people that Mooneys aren't necessarily about what you might think they are. They can do and are strong enough to take it.

 

[Dav8or]

And in my case, a little skin. The durn thing bit me. I don't like the C for that reason alone. I shouldn't have to donate skin to fly.

If you are worried about losing some skin flying a C, rest assured, there are loads of M20Cs available out there with electric gear. Off the top of my head tonight, so other Mooniacs feel free to correct me, but I think electric gear was an option on the C from '64 to '68 and then standard from '69 to '78.

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

Oh yes. Bryan is kind of a hero in Mooneyland. I don't have the skills myself, but he does go out there and show people that Mooneys aren't necessarily about what you might think they are. They can do and are strong enough to take it.

Oops... Light sand good; dark sand bad.

Full thread here. Bryan takes a lot of good natured ribbing from the BCP guys.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

So wait, the whole empennage moves when the plane is being trimmed? That trim wheel must have some resistance to it. That also seems silly. Are you guys saying that maybe it's just the stabilator that moves when the trim wheel is moved?

Nope, it's the entire empennage. If you look at these pics, you can see where it can rotate into the fuselage above and below the horizontal stabilizer (underneath it's very easy to see - Where the lines "break"):

 

[zaitcev]

Somehow I managed to survive both my Mooney time and my Cessna with Johnson Bar flaps time without needing band-aids around the tips of my right index finger and thumb.

That's not where Mooney usually bites. Mine was deep in the palm, on one of the lines.

 

[Henning]

Keep in mind with the M20C models it is a wooden wing. You'd be better off getting one of the later all metal models.

Negative, besides, the wood wing is a speed bonus.

 

[Dead Stick]

Here's the fun fact for today...
Ralph Harmon lead the team that designed the Bonanza back in the late 1940's. Al Mooney designed the wood-winged, wood-tailed Mooney back in the 1950's. Later when it became necessary to rework the Mooney wing, Mr. Mooney had Mr. Harmon do it for him.

 

[rbridges]

I believe the trim system for the Mooney moves the entire tail. That is probably the slot/cover that accommodates the motion.

Ron Wanttaja

yep. there are 4 or 5 screws along the leading edge of that strip IIRC. the trailing edge is just not approximated closely.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Keep in mind with the M20C models it is a wooden wing. You'd be better off getting one of the later all metal models.

Ummm... I don't think so. M20A was wood, M20C is all metal.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Another question that fits quite well in the subject of this thread:

What the heck is this?

I think it's Mooney-related. It was in my uncle's hangar. No idea what it is.