Mooney Ovation

mrjones30

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jan 15, 2012
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Tampa Bay Area
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Freedom is Flying
Still a little too rich for my blood, but you're right - that seems like a lot of airplane for the money.
 
Nice planes,not In my price range.
 
Great little planes, but they do suffer from being basically two seat airplanes especially in the newer models. Regardless, I still would never turn one down.
 
One just came in to the local shop for a TOH.

Less than 900 hours TTAF.

This will be the 3rd top.
 
One just came in to the local shop for a TOH.

Less than 900 hours TTAF.

This will be the 3rd top.


So the pilot doesn't know how to operate the engine properly or the mechanic isn't aware that continentals suffer from intermittent low compression and a top is rarely necessary but some mechanics falsely believe if one cylinder needs a overhaul all cylinders should be changed.

Not a fault of the plane. Pilot and mechanic most likely to blame here.


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Actually, the owner loves spending money apparently. It had 2 cylinders at 30, one at 45. He said top it.
 
Does anybody know why the sudden decrease in prices? Is there any word on what China is going to do with the Mooney brand? That could give us some insight.
 
Which flavor is Kent's Mooney?
 
Lotta plane for the money. I'd still rather my M20C. Two less cylinders, mechanical gear and flaps, and goes plenty fast. Back seats are overrated anyway.
 
Great little planes, but they do suffer from being basically two seat airplanes especially in the newer models. Regardless, I still would never turn one down.
I disagree with a Mooney being a "real world" 2 person aircraft. Even the Ovation is only burning about 100lbs an hour. So, except in the case where you have 2 @250lb front seaters and the full 550lb of fuel would you hit the 500lb payload. That's 6 hours of flight time, and in the real world that trip happens rarely, if ever. Having said that, that model only takes 400lb to get you 4 hours. So that's another full body in the back + light luggage to get you anywhere in a 650nm ring. That's fantastic.
From the statistics I've seen almost any Mooney is a 3 place aircraft for the majority of missions.

However, I don't care if it fit 6 people and cost $10 an hour to run, if I so much as whispered about spending a quarter of a million on an airplane, my wife would put antifreeze in my morning coffee and laugh. Nicely equipped plane though!

Does anybody know why the sudden decrease in prices? Is there any word on what China is going to do with the Mooney brand? That could give us some insight.
As far as I know, the only thing that was going to be done in China was the Mooney M10 training platform and that deal looks to be headed down the toilet rapidly.
 
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Id rather get a short winged glasair with a turbo IO550, full glass etc.

Or a white lighting, if you're you could find one.

Maybe a decked out lanceair

For a high speed RG single, the experimental market has lapped the certified market a few times over. Unless you need to be able to work the plane for commercial uses, I just don't see the appeal.
 
Does anybody know why the sudden decrease in prices? Is there any word on what China is going to do with the Mooney brand? That could give us some insight.

Could just be that "everything from China is cheaper" syndrome? :confused:

One thing I have always wondered, and maybe someone here can explain, if "everything is bigger in Texas" how come my 6' 4" can't fit into a Mooney?
(Seriously, I have a friend with a gorgeous M20C and after one ride I won't ever get back into that airplane)
 
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Could just be that "everything from China is cheaper" syndrome? :confused:

One thing I have always wondered, and maybe someone here can explain, if "everything is bigger in Texas" how come my 6' 4" can't fit into a Mooney?
(Seriously, I have a friend with a gorgeous M20C and after one ride I won't ever get back into that airplane)

Because everybody's body is different. If your torso is really long, it could be problematic. I know a guy 6'9" who loves his Mooney, says he doesn't fit into Pipers or Bonanzas.
 
Because everybody's body is different. If your torso is really long, it could be problematic. I know a guy 6'9" who loves his Mooney, says he doesn't fit into Pipers or Bonanzas.

This. Some folks fit in them, some don't. It's a real find for those of us who do, Mooneys really hit the sweet spot for speed and efficiency, especially the vintage airframes. I don't think I could have hit the kind of speed I've got for the money I spent in anything else. As far as Mooneys being two seat airplanes, very few experimentals are anything but. And good luck taking much of anything with you in any of those. I wanted n RV, but no what would one of those carry Mrs. Steingar, or more specifically Mrs. Steingar's stuff. My Mooney will, and at 140Kts on an O360. Life is sweet.

I've become a Mooniac. Dear me.
 
From what I have seen the J's are the Mooney sweat-spot. Can fly three easily, relatively fast, and very efficient for the speed. As for the pilot fitting issue, it is not one for me. Flying and traveling is one of the few times I am glad to be on the small side. But my CFI is over 6 feet tall and about 220 lbs, and Mooney's are his favorite GA plane.
 
One thing I have always wondered, and maybe someone here can explain, if "everything is bigger in Texas" how come my 6' 4" can't fit into a Mooney?
Kent (@flyingcheesehead ) is a tall fellow with a linebacker size and is comfortable in his Mooney....
 
Some of you have met my buddy China. A small guy he isn't, and he fits so well he's going to partner up with me in the aircraft once he gets some cash.
 
I use to believe that I couldn't fit into a Mooney until I actually got into one of the J models and the newer ones at Sun and Fun. I fit into them perfectly. I also sat in the back seat in both and it was comfortable there as well. I am 6 foot 2 245 LBS.
 
Because everybody's body is different. If your torso is really long, it could be problematic. I know a guy 6'9" who loves his Mooney, says he doesn't fit into Pipers or Bonanzas.

I am 6' 4" and about 240 lbs with 36" leg inseam. In the M20C both are a problem - I have to tilt my head considerably (to the point of discomfort in flight) to accommodate the curve in the fuselage and splay my legs to avoid interfering with the yoke movement. It's the only Mooney I have ever tried on for size, and from the posts here sounds like some of the newer ones are perhaps more commodious.

I have the same problem in the short body Bonanzas.

Your friend won't have any problem fitting into my Piper...
 
Has anybody noticed the depreciation of Mooney Ovations recently?

About 1 year ago, (When I was looking) you couldn't touch a Mooney Ovation for under 300k but now they seem to be getting a bit cheaper. These are AMAZING airplanes for a good price.

I wouldn't say there's been a ton of depreciation on the older models. The newer G1000 ones were still new enough that yes, they're still in the fast part of the depreciation curve.

One just came in to the local shop for a TOH.

Less than 900 hours TTAF.

This will be the 3rd top.

That, is a bad pilot and/or shop. I've got over 1700 TTAF/E, it's never been topped. I've had two cylinders worked on, but never even had a cylinder overhauled. I'm a big fan of the IO-550-G, it's turbine-smooth above 1K RPM and the balanced intake makes it very easy to run LOP.

The TSIO-550 in the Acclaim, however, has had some problems. Is that maybe what's going on in this case, Tim? I've heard of those being difficult to get past 400 hours at first, though I think they've found and fixed the problems now.

Which flavor is Kent's Mooney?

Ovation "1" (Just an Ovation, not a 2 or 3 or GX or DX...). And it's a sweet airplane. Flies like it's on rails, only smoother! I plan on 170 KTAS on 12 gph, and on longer trips at optimum altitude can see up to 175 KTAS at that burn. Higher up (13,000), I've seen 172 KTAS on 10.1 gph. Climbs like mad, too, I plan on averaging 1000 FPM to 10,000 at 120 KIAS in the climb.

Great little planes, but they do suffer from being basically two seat airplanes especially in the newer models. Regardless, I still would never turn one down.

If I had a brand-new one with every option, I couldn't even fly it solo with full fuel (I'm about 1.6 FAA standard people :rofl:). But, full fuel with the long range tanks on a new one would go well past 10 hours to dry tanks... And it's a very rare person who feels the need for both FIKI and A/C.

I disagree with a Mooney being a "real world" 2 person aircraft. Even the Ovation is only burning about 100lbs an hour. So, except in the case where you have 2 @250lb front seaters and the full 550lb of fuel would you hit the 500lb payload. That's 6 hours of flight time, and in the real world that trip happens rarely, if ever. Having said that, that model only takes 400lb to get you 4 hours. So that's another full body in the back + light luggage to get you anywhere in a 650nm ring. That's fantastic.

Yes. With full tanks, I have enough to start, taxi, take off, climb to 10,000 feet, and after that fly an additional 7 hours to dry tanks. I've gone from the west coast to Wisconsin with one stop, and from Wisconsin I could go anywhere in the CONUS east of the Rockies without refueling (and beat the airlines easily, too).

I do not need full fuel! :no:

So, allowing for an hour reserve, it's a four-person aircraft for a 600+ nm trip or a three-person aircraft for a 900-nm trip, or a two-people-plus-bags aircraft for the max 1,040nm range. And who the heck wants to go that far without stopping?

FWIW, about a year ago I went from Milwaukee, WI to Houston, TX with four people plus bags for the weekend with one stop in about 5.5 flight time. Left around 8:30 AM, stopped in northern AR for lunch and fuel, and had dinner and went to a concert that night with my sister and her family.

For a high speed RG single, the experimental market has lapped the certified market a few times over. Unless you need to be able to work the plane for commercial uses, I just don't see the appeal.

I don't see the appeal of spending 10 years of my life building an airplane either, and I damn sure don't trust the plane anyone else built and gave up on. To each their own. If I was into experimentals, I'd probably have a Ravin 500 for this mission... But I don't think there's a ton of 4-seat experimentals in this class either.

One thing I have always wondered, and maybe someone here can explain, if "everything is bigger in Texas" how come my 6' 4" can't fit into a Mooney?
(Seriously, I have a friend with a gorgeous M20C and after one ride I won't ever get back into that airplane)

Al Mooney was 6'5", and he built an airplane to fit himself.

I've never flown a C model or any of the short-body Mooneys, for that matter - Only the mid body and long body. However, I know I would have headroom problems if I didn't lower the seat - Was there a potential adjustment that you missed, and maybe your friend didn't know about if they're not as tall?
 
Yep most people forget that the same weight in fuel in a ovation will take the plane 35-40% further than other brands so less fuel can be carried allowing more weight for butts and bags. Especially in the J model.


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We have a search page???!!!?? Will wonders never cease.

LOL. And here you're the guru of part searches in your own database! ;)

Kent (@flyingcheesehead ) is a tall fellow with a linebacker size and is comfortable in his Mooney....

Kent is larger than most linebackers I have met. Haha. He's one of the only people I get a neck ache looking up to listen to him talk. Haha.

Some of you have met my buddy China. A small guy he isn't, and he fits so well he's going to partner up with me in the aircraft once he gets some cash.

Dude! That's who you suckered... Cough... Got to partner up with you? You two are gonna have a ball! Seriously. Good guy.

Ovation "1" (Just an Ovation, not a 2 or 3 or GX or DX...). And it's a sweet airplane. Flies like it's on rails, only smoother! I plan on 170 KTAS on 12 gph, and on longer trips at optimum altitude can see up to 175 KTAS at that burn. Higher up (13,000), I've seen 172 KTAS on 10.1 gph. Climbs like mad, too, I plan on averaging 1000 FPM to 10,000 at 120 KIAS in the climb.

Have I mentioned lately that I hate you? Hahaha. Okay you know not really, but it does bear repeating from time to time when I see your speeds. :) I still want a ride in that thing.

I've never flown a C model or any of the short-body Mooneys, for that matter - Only the mid body and long body. However, I know I would have headroom problems if I didn't lower the seat - Was there a potential adjustment that you missed, and maybe your friend didn't know about if they're not as tall?

I've got time in a C and used it for some long XCs. I don't remember there being any adjustment on the seat, as I recall it was bolted right to the floor for the most part.

You'd find it cramped I think. I found it "cozy". It wasn't the headroom. The seat was very low and the cabin roof high. It was the shoulders. You know about how wide I am, and you're wider. I found myself "comfortable but not really able to move much" with my left shoulder always up against the sidewall. If I needed a break from that I had to lean right and kinda bend to move the vertebrae once in a while. I was also a lot younger then. Comfortable yes. Extra room of any sort? No.

And I had to make sure my butt was centered in the seat to be out of the way but also able to reach and operate the gear and flaps in the center.

The cool part of the C, like yours, is that silly good efficiency in speed and fuel burn of pretty much any Mooney. I started using it back then for Denver to Houston trips to see family because it knocked an hour or more off of the time and used less fuel doing so.

If I needed a traveling machine today, I wouldn't hesitate to look at older Mooneys. Karen and I would fit in one fine. Cozy. Ha. We'd probably both need knee replacements in a few years from getting in and out of it, though. ;) That was entertaining back then, and my knees didn't pop as loud back then as they do today. Grin!
 
I've found the Mooney easier to get in and out of than my Cherokee. Then again, that isn't saying much.
 
I've got time in a C and used it for some long XCs. I don't remember there being any adjustment on the seat, as I recall it was bolted right to the floor for the most part.

You'd find it cramped I think. I found it "cozy". It wasn't the headroom. The seat was very low and the cabin roof high. It was the shoulders. You know about how wide I am, and you're wider. I found myself "comfortable but not really able to move much" with my left shoulder always up against the sidewall. If I needed a break from that I had to lean right and kinda bend to move the vertebrae once in a while. I was also a lot younger then. Comfortable yes. Extra room of any sort? No.

And I had to make sure my butt was centered in the seat to be out of the way but also able to reach and operate the gear and flaps in the center.

The cool part of the C, like yours, is that silly good efficiency in speed and fuel burn of pretty much any Mooney. I started using it back then for Denver to Houston trips to see family because it knocked an hour or more off of the time and used less fuel doing so.

If I needed a traveling machine today, I wouldn't hesitate to look at older Mooneys. Karen and I would fit in one fine. Cozy. Ha. We'd probably both need knee replacements in a few years from getting in and out of it, though. ;) That was entertaining back then, and my knees didn't pop as loud back then as they do today. Grin!

Describes my limited experience in a "C". Seats had fore/aft adjustment only. Sitting low so technically enough headroom vertically, but the curve of the cabin wall into the roofline resulted in the side of my headset and my left shoulder right up against the cabin wall with head tilted. The discussion here interesting and I am going to have to check out a later gen Mooney. I am just waiting for someone to start an Ovation vs SR22 thread :D
 
Kent, this was a twin turbo.

Yeah, that's the Acclaim, and that's the one that they've had a lot of engine problems with. I do think Conti came up with something to fix it though, that owner should look into it a bit more unless he just likes throwing money.
 
If I needed a traveling machine today, I wouldn't hesitate to look at older Mooneys. Karen and I would fit in one fine. Cozy. Ha. We'd probably both need knee replacements in a few years from getting in and out of it, though. ;) That was entertaining back then, and my knees didn't pop as loud back then as they do today. Grin!

The trick is how you get in and out. My knees suck (from carrying that linebacker body). I get on the wing, face the back, and basically stick my knee on the right seat and roll into the left seat. It's a lot faster and more graceful than it sounds. ;) For me, getting in the right seat was difficult and knee-popping until I started doing the same thing only putting my right knee on the wingwalk and rolling into the seat. Do the reverse to exit. Not too difficult.

If you do the foot-in-squat-other-foot-in-slide method it is WAY more awkward and difficult.
 
The trick is how you get in and out. My knees suck (from carrying that linebacker body). I get on the wing, face the back, and basically stick my knee on the right seat and roll into the left seat. It's a lot faster and more graceful than it sounds. ;) For me, getting in the right seat was difficult and knee-popping until I started doing the same thing only putting my right knee on the wingwalk and rolling into the seat. Do the reverse to exit. Not too difficult.

If you do the foot-in-squat-other-foot-in-slide method it is WAY more awkward and difficult.

Do you put your hands in the air after the roll or any sort of post-roll flourish?
 
I wouldn't say there's been a ton of depreciation on the older models. The newer G1000 ones were still new enough that yes, they're still in the fast part of the depreciation curve.



That, is a bad pilot and/or shop. I've got over 1700 TTAF/E, it's never been topped. I've had two cylinders worked on, but never even had a cylinder overhauled. I'm a big fan of the IO-550-G, it's turbine-smooth above 1K RPM and the balanced intake makes it very easy to run LOP.

The TSIO-550 in the Acclaim, however, has had some problems. Is that maybe what's going on in this case, Tim? I've heard of those being difficult to get past 400 hours at first, though I think they've found and fixed the problems now.



Ovation "1" (Just an Ovation, not a 2 or 3 or GX or DX...). And it's a sweet airplane. Flies like it's on rails, only smoother! I plan on 170 KTAS on 12 gph, and on longer trips at optimum altitude can see up to 175 KTAS at that burn. Higher up (13,000), I've seen 172 KTAS on 10.1 gph. Climbs like mad, too, I plan on averaging 1000 FPM to 10,000 at 120 KIAS in the climb.



If I had a brand-new one with every option, I couldn't even fly it solo with full fuel (I'm about 1.6 FAA standard people :rofl:). But, full fuel with the long range tanks on a new one would go well past 10 hours to dry tanks... And it's a very rare person who feels the need for both FIKI and A/C.



Yes. With full tanks, I have enough to start, taxi, take off, climb to 10,000 feet, and after that fly an additional 7 hours to dry tanks. I've gone from the west coast to Wisconsin with one stop, and from Wisconsin I could go anywhere in the CONUS east of the Rockies without refueling (and beat the airlines easily, too).

I do not need full fuel! :no:

So, allowing for an hour reserve, it's a four-person aircraft for a 600+ nm trip or a three-person aircraft for a 900-nm trip, or a two-people-plus-bags aircraft for the max 1,040nm range. And who the heck wants to go that far without stopping?

FWIW, about a year ago I went from Milwaukee, WI to Houston, TX with four people plus bags for the weekend with one stop in about 5.5 flight time. Left around 8:30 AM, stopped in northern AR for lunch and fuel, and had dinner and went to a concert that night with my sister and her family.



I don't see the appeal of spending 10 years of my life building an airplane either, and I damn sure don't trust the plane anyone else built and gave up on. To each their own. If I was into experimentals, I'd probably have a Ravin 500 for this mission... But I don't think there's a ton of 4-seat experimentals in this class either.



Al Mooney was 6'5", and he built an airplane to fit himself.

I've never flown a C model or any of the short-body Mooneys, for that matter - Only the mid body and long body. However, I know I would have headroom problems if I didn't lower the seat - Was there a potential adjustment that you missed, and maybe your friend didn't know about if they're not as tall?

But you trust a mooney made in China by a dude who you don't know and who has little vested interest in it as he's never going to fly in it?

Or buying used with no idea who or how it was flown or wrenched on?

It's all prebuy, and with exp planes I'd just buy one with a few hundred hours on it, plenty for sale.
 
But you trust a mooney made in China by a dude who you don't know and who has little vested interest in it as he's never going to fly in it?

Mooneys are made in Kerrville, TX by people whose vested interest is that they're going to have to move all the way to Wichita to get another job if they make crappy airplanes, and who are being watched by the FAA.

Or buying used with no idea who or how it was flown or wrenched on?

The exact same thing is true of used experimentals.

It's all prebuy, and with exp planes I'd just buy one with a few hundred hours on it, plenty for sale.

I don't trust prebuys. Still do them, but I've had one bad experience out of two purchases - Not a good track record.

So, I still prefer certified airplanes. And I love the Mooney. Few 4-seat experimentals out there, especially with retracts in this speed class. Love the Ravin but I think there's still only one (the demonstrator) in the US and less than a dozen worldwide. Not like there's a big owners group to glean knowledge from. RV-10 would be awesome with retracts, and it's still pretty good without but somewhat slower than the Mooney.
 
The who's been flying it being the same between certified and exp was my point.

As for maintaining your job vs self preservation, one can always get another job, even if the FAA comes down on someone, life goes on, wing comes off, fade to black and it's a wrap.

Prebuys are just about the APIA you use, I've had good experiences with them, it's just due diligence, being aggressive, using good and vetted people and getting your hands dirty
 
The who's been flying it being the same between certified and exp was my point.

As for maintaining your job vs self preservation, one can always get another job, even if the FAA comes down on someone, life goes on, wing comes off, fade to black and it's a wrap.

Prebuys are just about the APIA you use, I've had good experiences with them, it's just due diligence, being aggressive, using good and vetted people and getting your hands dirty

If that were true, our Country's standard of living wouldn't be sliding down to the abyss of second world. That's such an apathetic platitude, and a falsehood.
 
I think we have more of a cultural issue.
 
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