Mooney M20E/F or Debonair?

N2124v

N2124v

Line Up and Wait
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N2124V
I'm starting to look for a new airplane. I've owned an M20E before so I am very familiar with the care and feeding of a Mooney. What about a Debonair? In you opinion which will be more expensive to maintain? I know the Deb will drink more. Thanks!

FYI. Typical flight will be 350-400nm, 2-3 people, normal baggage for a girl. :) Non IFR currently, but want to finish it.
 
Deb and M20E will go about the same speed I think. You will probably have a touch more useful load in the deb, and more space. With 3 people, that is the airplane I would want.
 
Back in the day I sold a 20F and bought a S-35. I liked the Bo much better, the pax were ecstatic, especially when they learned that they could actually take their luggage on trips. MX costs and dependability on the Bo were favorable as well.

If I were considering such a trade these days, I'd probably look for a Deb with an engine conversion.
 
N2124v said:
I'm starting to look for a new airplane. I've owned an M20E before so I am very familiar with the care and feeding of a Mooney. What about a Debonair? In you opinion which will be more expensive to maintain? I know the Deb will drink more. Thanks!

FYI. Typical flight will be 350-400nm, 2-3 people, normal baggage for a girl. :) Non IFR currently, but want to finish it.
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Sounds like you're in the same boat I was in a year ago, I wound up with a V-Tail Bo (N35). A Deb with an IO520/IO550 would be sweet. The earlier ones were/are underpowered IMHO. Not sure if the Debs suffer the same aft CG issues as the V-Tail but run some W&B Scenarios before you load up 2 pax in the back and all their junk in the luggage compartment.
 
Ok, what is the added cost at an annual for a retract? Assuming nothing wrong, just the inspection.
 
wabower said:
About a half-day.
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I think that might depend on the system. Both Mooneys and Bonanzas use a single electric actuator which is pretty simple and reliable. Hydraulic retraction systems seem to require more maintenance and I suspect they also take a bit longer to inspect properly.

The maintenance required annually for a Bonanza gear involves lubing a dozen or so zerks, checking the downlock tension and checking for excess wear. A half day is probably a little generous but close enough.
 
N2124v said:
I'm starting to look for a new airplane. I've owned an M20E before so I am very familiar with the care and feeding of a Mooney. What about a Debonair? In you opinion which will be more expensive to maintain? I know the Deb will drink more. Thanks!

FYI. Typical flight will be 350-400nm, 2-3 people, normal baggage for a girl. :) Non IFR currently, but want to finish it.
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I love the Deb. That is what I would pick if nothing more than the extra room.

N2124v said:
Ok, what is the added cost at an annual for a retract? Assuming nothing wrong, just the inspection.
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A few hours shop time to lube retract and check just like some others have said. The Deb is actually cheaper for the inspections.
 
So budgeting around $2k for the inspection, not fixing any squaks, would be safe? I remember Mooney inspections being around $1500. Also, money's had wet wings which were a pain. What do Debs have?
 
Anything is better than a Mooney if you need to get access to stuff in the engine compartment.
flyingmoose said:
I love the Deb. That is what I would pick if nothing more than the extra room.


A few hours shop time to lube retract and check just like some others have said. The Deb is actually cheaper for the inspections.
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Just wrote a check for a debby annual $1500 for the cost of the inspection itself.(owned by my biz partner )

debs have fuel bladders by the way
..stick with the b or c models the a models have some weirdisms with the fuel system. Love the mechanical nose gear indicator on the debs....if you get a 3 bladed prop they look just like a F33 minus the 600-6 tires on the mains vs the 700-6
 
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That was the one thing I hated about my Mooney, all the stinking screws to get the cowl off and inspection plates off.

Thanks! There is a Deb for sale near me that I am going to go look at soon.
 
N2124v said:
That was the one thing I hated about my Mooney, all the stinking screws to get the cowl off and inspection plates off.

Thanks! There is a Deb for sale near me that I am going to go look at soon.
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highly recommend a prebuy with Paul McKracken , he is THE dude to prebuy a bonanza BT royalty and he's in Dallas I believe
 
I'm different than most. Avionics don't sell me a plane, the plane sells me the plane. Avionics are nice, but they can be fixed for a check. You can put the same basic stack in a Deb as you would in the Mooney.

Frankly, your pax will thank you if you get the Deb. I might consider an M20F in comparison, but I'd still get the Deb.
 
Deb hands down. More comfortable in front. Much more comfortable in back. Better gear especially for rough surfaces. Potential to use autofuel.
 
I've sat in a M20E (noooo thanks). I've never sat in a Deb. How does the backseat on a Deb compare to the backseats of the post-'74 (5 inch stretch fuselage) PA-28 series? How's the shoulder room on the Debs?

I presume the cessnas still win in the backseat cabin department..
 
Whatever blows your skirt, but the value of the boxes can often be more than any other value component (TTAF, SMOH, etc.) insofar as FMV is concerned. If you don't want the stuff, there's no reason to pay for it, but many buyers are highly desirous of the panel goodies.

docmirror said:
I'm different than most. Avionics don't sell me a plane, the plane sells me the plane. Avionics are nice, but they can be fixed for a check. You can put the same basic stack in a Deb as you would in the Mooney.

Frankly, your pax will thank you if you get the Deb. I might consider an M20F in comparison, but I'd still get the Deb.
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hindsight2020 said:
I've sat in a M20E (noooo thanks). I've never sat in a Deb. How does the backseat on a Deb compare to the backseats of the post-'74 (5 inch stretch fuselage) PA-28 series? How's the shoulder room on the Debs? .
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I haven't been in the back of a Deb specifically, but I would imagine it would b very similar to the Bo's, Barons and Travel Airs which are Soooooo much more roomy and comfortable for the back seat folks than any PA28.
hindsight2020 said:
I presume the cessnas still win in the backseat cabin department..
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What model Cessna?

I'd take the back seat of a Beech over any single engine Cessna. Only advantage of the Cessna singles for the Pax is ease of entry/egress. Cessna is easier in that category, but once inside, the Beech wins for comfort and legroom.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I've sat in a M20E (noooo thanks). I've never sat in a Deb. How does the backseat on a Deb compare to the backseats of the post-'74 (5 inch stretch fuselage) PA-28 series? How's the shoulder room on the Debs?

I presume the cessnas still win in the backseat cabin department..
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its much nicer..captain chairs and no shoulder rubbing..I can fall asleep in the back of the Debonair far faster than anything else..

When I flew for a Radiology group with a Cirrus..We would lease a debonair during the maintenance events....the docs immediately fell in love with the comfort of the debonair vs the Cirrus..and that drove the decision to sell the Cirrus for a turbo Bo...
 
wabower said:
Whatever blows your skirt, but the value of the boxes can often be more than any other value component (TTAF, SMOH, etc.) insofar as FMV is concerned. If you don't want the stuff, there's no reason to pay for it, but many buyers are highly desirous of the panel goodies.
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The first four words of my post explain it. I can fix an avionics problem with a check. I can't make a Mooney into a Deb unless I see and buy what I wanted the first time.

Everythings relative. If the plane is a rabid dog with the best radios in the world(unlikely), maybe I'd buy it to strip out the radios then sell the plane, and buy what I really want.

Or, I could buy what I really want, and have the right radios put in. That's what Barnstormers.com is for.
 
Have you ever ridden in the second row of a 210? It's the best ride in the fleet.

Fearless Tower said:
I haven't been in the back of a Deb specifically, but I would imagine it would b very similar to the Bo's, Barons and Travel Airs which are Soooooo much more roomy and comfortable for the back seat folks than any PA28.

What model Cessna?

I'd take the back seat of a Beech over any single engine Cessna. Only advantage of the Cessna singles for the Pax is ease of entry/egress. Cessna is easier in that category, but once inside, the Beech wins for comfort and legroom.
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wabower said:
Have you ever ridden in the second row of a 210? It's the best ride in the fleet.
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I did sit in the second row of one on the ground. It is not bad, but I still think the back of the Baron is more comfy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Sitting in the shade will always beat sitting in the sun.

Fearless Tower said:
I did sit in the second row of one on the ground. It is not bad, but I still think the back of the Baron is more comfy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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hindsight2020 said:
I've sat in a M20E (noooo thanks). I've never sat in a Deb. How does the backseat on a Deb compare to the backseats of the post-'74 (5 inch stretch fuselage) PA-28 series? How's the shoulder room on the Debs?

I presume the cessnas still win in the backseat cabin department..
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Night and day difference. Beech designers seem to be the only ones who figured out that back seat passengers mostly have feet and need a place to put them. For double amputees, all brands are equal.
 
Not exactly. 210 has at least as much foot well and no spar in the way.

JHW said:
Night and day difference. Beech designers seem to be the only ones who figured out that back seat passengers mostly have feet and need a place to put them. For double amputees, all brands are equal.
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wabower said:
Not exactly. 210 has at least as much foot well and no spar in the way.
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True, the cessnas arent bad. But i think we can agree the pa28 back seat is barely a notch above the cessna 150 kiddie back seat.
 
I don't think I ever considered putting a real person back there. The seat cushion was simply a raised shelf to hold the flight bag.

JHW said:
True, the cessnas arent bad. But i think we can agree the pa28 back seat is barely a notch above the cessna 150 kiddie back seat.
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wabower said:
It says 75" on the plastic but that's if i stand up straight and hold my stomach in.
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That's at least 3" taller than me....and you still like the legroom of the middle row of the 210 better than the Beech?
 
Yep, and the 6-5 salesman I travel with likes it even better. Big picture window on each side, fully articulating fore-aft-travel seats, more legroom for tall folks. We're both pilots but we always ride in the middle row while the pilot sits by himself in front.

But I agree that an A-36 with the middle row oriented for forward seating is also a good ride. The front row seats in Bo-Baron cabins isn't comfortable for tall people who need more room between the seat-cushion and the ceiling.

Fearless Tower said:
That's at least 3" taller than me....and you still like the legroom of the middle row of the 210 better than the Beech?
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wabower said:
Yep, and the 6-5 salesman I travel with likes it even better. Big picture window on each side, fully articulating fore-aft-travel seats, more legroom for tall folks. We're both pilots but we always ride in the middle row while the pilot sits by himself in front.

But I agree that an A-36 with the middle row oriented for forward seating is also a good ride. The front row seats in Bo-Baron cabins isn't comfortable for tall people who need more room between the seat-cushion and the ceiling.
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6'4" here and I find the back of a 182 very comfortable, sure my feet are under the front seat but so what? 172s and pa28s, well I "fit." Back of the V35 I sat in was not as nice a place to be unless I could stick my legs across the footwell. I also couldn't stand to fly it in anything other than the smoothest air as my head was on the ceiling. Every bump, no matter how small hurt.

However the middle row of a non club seating Seneca takes the cake for "WTF were they thinking?!"
 
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