Mooney for sale

Ted DuPuis said:
Is there a reason why you don't like to use them in flight? I wouldn't use them every flight in the 310 (similarly slippery to a Mooney), but I would absolutely use them regularly. Especially in the summer when, like Spike, I want to stay up high for a long while. Also in the case of the 310, the plane goes to the top of the green and into the yellow really easily, and it can make descents more challenging, especially if you like to be nice to your engines.
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Absent another reason, I feel that a pilot that needs to use them often lacks finesse and probably isn't planning their approaches well. Not to mention, having a super-efficient airplane and then always using speed brakes kinda defeats the purpose. ;)

Now, staying high to keep cool is a perfectly valid reason to use them. Luckily, that's not as much of a problem for me in WI as it is for Spike in TX. I prefer to simply plan my descent so that I don't need them whenever possible. That generally means that I need to start my descent 6nm out per 1000 feet I need to descend, pull back to 22" or less 20nm out if I'm not already there, then 20" at 15nm, 17" at 10nm, 14" at 5nm, 2000 RPM in the pattern, and 1500 in the final descent.

If I can't or don't want to follow that profile for any reason, the speed brakes are an excellent tool to have. Even though I prefer not to use them if I can help it, I'm really glad they're there because there are plenty of occasions to use them.
 
I figured that was your reason. I've also heard folks say they don't like speed brakes because they're afraid of forgetting their gear. I had a similar mindset.

After some years of thinking and other flying experiences, I've changed my thought process. It seems to me that they are a useful tool, and for a lot of reasons if I had them I might consider planning to use them in general. It seems the airliners do, and it's not regarded as sloppy flying to need them, just use of all the tools available to best complete the mission. Heat, ice, turbulence, fuel burn, speed, can all be reasons for wanting to stay up high.

Of course, not using them is also not sloppy for the same reasons. :)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Absent another reason, I feel that a pilot that needs to use them often lacks finesse and probably isn't planning their approaches well. Not to mention, having a super-efficient airplane and then always using speed brakes kinda defeats the purpose. ;)

Now, staying high to keep cool is a perfectly valid reason to use them. Luckily, that's not as much of a problem for me in WI as it is for Spike in TX. I prefer to simply plan my descent so that I don't need them whenever possible. That generally means that I need to start my descent 6nm out per 1000 feet I need to descend, pull back to 22" or less 20nm out if I'm not already there, then 20" at 15nm, 17" at 10nm, 14" at 5nm, 2000 RPM in the pattern, and 1500 in the final descent.

If I can't or don't want to follow that profile for any reason, the speed brakes are an excellent tool to have. Even though I prefer not to use them if I can help it, I'm really glad they're there because there are plenty of occasions to use them.
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And for those of us who fly pre-J models with a 100 knot VLo, it changes the game completely...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I figured that was your reason. I've also heard folks say they don't like speed brakes because they're afraid of forgetting their gear. I had a similar mindset.

After some years of thinking and other flying experiences, I've changed my thought process. It seems to me that they are a useful tool,
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They're certainly a useful tool - I'm not too worried about the gear simply because they cause a LOT more drag than the brakes do, and my main use of the brakes in the air is to slow down enough to get the gear out!

The other thing they're nice for is that if you're level and trimmed out and change nothing but putting the brakes out, you get a nice 500 fpm descent. That's handy for short descents when IFR, so you're not messing around with trim and power a lot in a short time frame. So when you're at 3000 feet and ATC tells you to descend and maintain 2700 for the approach, pop the brakes and retract them as you're reaching the desired altitude.
 
Marauder said:
And for those of us who fly pre-J models with a 100 knot VLo, it changes the game completely...
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Wow - Yes! I sometimes have to use them to get down to the 140-knot Vlo(e) in the Ovation! (Flap speed is 110 for me, what's yours?)

I don't think I'd spend the money to put them in if I didn't have them (IIRC it's $7000 for the parts and the STC) but they're certainly a big plus to have, so when buying an airplane, it gets big bonus points if they're already there.
 
Arbiter419 said:
What do you mooniacs think of the LoPresti cowl on the 201? What's it good for? I know of a mooney that's about half primer and half what appears to be army green rattle can paint...the thing looks like hell but he has a lot of money in the panel and one of the Lopresti cowls.
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I think it is a decent product, but radically overpriced for what it is. You get modern appearance and an effective ram air system (the 201 ram air is useless, unlike the pre-201 system) and two big inspection panels on top of the cowl for better pre-flight inspection. You may or may not get more speed than the stock cowl. You also get new nose gear doors and lower windshield fairing.

Installation is reportedly a major PITA as there is a lot of fitting required to get it to turn out nice. I think they look great when installed well, but not all of them have been. I would like to have one on my plane or a future plane I might buy, but I wouldn't pay a large premium to get one.
 
KSMooniac said:
I think it is a decent product, but radically overpriced for what it is. You get modern appearance and an effective ram air system (the 201 ram air is useless, unlike the pre-201 system) and two big inspection panels on top of the cowl for better pre-flight inspection. You may or may not get more speed than the stock cowl. You also get new nose gear doors and lower windshield fairing.

Installation is reportedly a major PITA as there is a lot of fitting required to get it to turn out nice. I think they look great when installed well, but not all of them have been. I would like to have one on my plane or a future plane I might buy, but I wouldn't pay a large premium to get one.
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The RAM air is useless in the J model because the intake system is designed much better - pre J the intake was very inefficient and the RAM air bypassed it.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Wow - Yes! I sometimes have to use them to get down to the 140-knot Vlo(e) in the Ovation! (Flap speed is 110 for me, what's yours?)

I don't think I'd spend the money to put them in if I didn't have them (IIRC it's $7000 for the parts and the STC) but they're certainly a big plus to have, so when buying an airplane, it gets big bonus points if they're already there.
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109 knots on VFe. I can't tell you the number of times I am coming down the pipe wishing I had your VLo... As you know, a Mooney just wants to fly fast. :)
 
DavidWhite said:
The RAM air is useless in the J model because the intake system is designed much better - pre J the intake was very inefficient and the RAM air bypassed it.
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On my F, I can get an full inch MP if not a tad more.
 
DavidWhite said:
The RAM air is useless in the J model because the intake system is designed much better - pre J the intake was very inefficient and the RAM air bypassed it.
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That's part of it, but in addition, the ram air in the J is also not all that it could be and so in the case of the original vintage intake, the ram air was a fix and in the case of the J cowling the ram air in an improvement. By all accounts, the Lo Presti ram air is a boost to even the J and the main reason to get it.
 
Arbiter419 said:
What do you mooniacs think of the LoPresti cowl on the 201? What's it good for? I know of a mooney that's about half primer and half what appears to be army green rattle can paint...the thing looks like hell but he has a lot of money in the panel and one of the Lopresti cowls.
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Basically it's great mod at a great (meaning huge) price. If this is the last airplane you'll ever own and you have the money, then go for it. Otherwise, it is most effective on the vintage planes and may make some sense to some people. For those with J's, it makes less sense given the cost.

Put it this way...

Nearly everyone in the Mooney community wishes the thing was about half the price it is. Anybody at Lo Presti listening??!

Fantasy over now. Basically if you can buy a Mooney with one on it already, I personally would add significant value to that plane given a good installation.
 
Do you have a list of aviation-related costs to which your bolded question does not apply?

Dav8or said:
Basically it's great mod at a great (meaning huge) price. If this is the last airplane you'll ever own and you have the money, then go for it. Otherwise, it is most effective on the vintage planes and may make some sense to some people. For those with J's, it makes less sense given the cost.

Put it this way...

Nearly everyone in the Mooney community wishes the thing was about half the price it is. Anybody at Lo Presti listening??!

Fantasy over now. Basically if you can buy a Mooney with one on it already, I personally would add significant value to that plane given a good installation.
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wabower said:
Do you have a list of aviation-related costs to which your bolded question does not apply?
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Good point, however in the case of the Lo Presti cowl, we would like to get it down from crazy, insane, stupid expensive to just the regular stupid expensive.
 
Dav8or said:
Good point, however in the case of the Lo Presti cowl, we would like to get it down from crazy, insane, stupid expensive to just the regular stupid expensive.
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All speed mods are like that, lots of $$ per knot!:dunno: I like the aft body strakes for the 400 series Cessnas, better climb, a little more speed, but the are $13-15K installed for 5-7 knots? I don't think I will live long enough them to make economic sense, but they look cool!:yes:
 
N747JB said:
All speed mods are like that, lots of $$ per knot!:dunno: I like the aft body strakes for the 400 series Cessnas, better climb, a little more speed, but the are $13-15K installed for 5-7 knots? I don't think I will live long enough them to make economic sense, but they look cool!:yes:
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I doubt if they would make much economic sense at any point, but my recollection is those (and the 421C trailing link hubcaps) also make a noticeable improvement in climb rate. The theory is that there's also an OEI performance benefit.

If I bought a Twin Cessna that could take them, I'd want them.
 
N747JB said:
All speed mods are like that, lots of $$ per knot!:dunno: I like the aft body strakes for the 400 series Cessnas, better climb, a little more speed, but the are $13-15K installed for 5-7 knots? I don't think I will live long enough them to make economic sense, but they look cool!:yes:
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That's less than than the LoPresti cowl for the Mooney.
 
David, send me a PDF file of a flier for selling your airplane and I will post it in the local FBO's.
 
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