Mooney down, Watertown WI

Registered aircraft owner appears to not have an instrument rating. There is another pilot who lives at the same physical address with nearly the same name (probably his son) that does have an instrument rating. Not sure if either were involved in the crash.
 
23103a said:
Nearest airport (Dodge County Airport) showed OVC003-OVC005 in the timeframe. ADSB track looks like spatial D with a -6800FPM dive at the end. :(
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METAR from Dodge County (15nm to the north)

KUNU 141355Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM BR OVC003 14/14 A2970 RMK AO2 T01420142

KUNU 141415Z AUTO 00000KT 7SM OVC005 15/15 A2970 RMK AO2 T01450145
 
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Yuck. I flew to kunu ( dodge county Juneau, WI) yesterday. At 141355z I was sitting on the ground waiting for vfr conditions.
 
Yeah, I hate it when I find out about accidents because people start texting to see if I'm OK. I also have a Mooney Ovation, based at the next airport to the east.

Weather-wise... I don't know why KRYV doesn't have a METAR any more, it used to. This is the first I've noticed that it doesn't have one any more. :dunno:

KUNU is to the north and a hair east of KRYV, not the south. KUES is east, KMSN is west, KJVL is SSW:

KUES 141345Z 32007KT 10SM OVC007 15/13 A2970
KMSN 141353Z 34003KT 8SM BKN250 20/13 A2968 RMK AO2 SLP048 T02000133
KJVL 141345Z VRB03KT 4SM HZ CLR 19/15 A2970

So, it may not have been as bad as KUNU. :dunno: I listened to the LiveATC archive for MSN Approach, and at one point the controller says "25C, you up?" and then a couple minutes later asks a C172 off of Blackhawk (87Y) to fly over to the east and see if they can spot anything because "I had an IFR departure from Watertown pop up momentarily, but we're not in contact." So, the turns weren't a result of ATC instructions.

One other thing to note: Watertown is very odd in that they have their FBO staff trained/certified to be able to relay IFR clearances via the CTAF. So, you can get a clearance on the ground there despite the lack of direct radio contact with ATC. The accident airplane was filed and squawking a code.

A C185, N185PG, flew over Watertown at 4,000 feet about 5 minutes before the accident. They're probably the ones who have the best idea what the conditions were there!

jesse said:
Registered aircraft owner appears to not have an instrument rating. There is another pilot who lives at the same physical address with nearly the same name (probably his son) that does have an instrument rating. Not sure if either were involved in the crash.
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After further digging: Registered owner (middle initial A) is the father and has the instrument rating. The other one (middle initial J) is the son and does not have the IR. It's very easy to confuse them because it appears that they are both dentists and work(ed) at the same practice - Dad founded it in 1975, Son joined in 2013 fresh out of Marquette dental school (which was Dad's alma mater as well), Dad appears to have retired in 2016.
 
I agree @flyingcheesehead, getting those texts is never fun. I guess the flip side is if you're getting them, the involved aircraft probably WASN'T you. I've flown into and out of KUNU and my sister went to college in Watertown, just about a half mile from the accident site and said she went to that park often. Sad result, but this ought to be a reminder to all of us that 1) just because you can doesn't necessarily mean you should, and 2) currency ≠ proficiency.
 
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

The pilot’s loss of control due to spatial disorientation while operating in instrument meteorological conditions. Contributing to the accident was the pilot’s impairment from the prohibited substance; however, the extent of impairment could not be determined.

NTSB Final Report N1025C
 
AquaLand said:
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

The pilot’s loss of control due to spatial disorientation while operating in instrument meteorological conditions. Contributing to the accident was the pilot’s impairment from the prohibited substance; however, the extent of impairment could not be determined.

NTSB Final Report N1025C
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Probable alcohol, plus gabapentin, codeine, and THC? Yikes. What was he thinking flying at all, especially into a 300 foot overcast with his grandson on board?
 
Rick A said:
Another example of the long lasting overbuilt Mooney being an amazingly strong design. Always, (with one exception) the Mooney hits the ground in one piece.
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Lots of airplanes hit the ground in one piece.
 
3393RP said:
Lots of airplanes hit the ground in one piece.
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Didn't imply it was only Mooneys that don't break... only that they have a long history of not breaking up under conditions that cause other popular designs to come back to earth in multiple pieces.
 
Thus, based on theavailable information, it is possible that the pilot was impaired by the use of gabapentin,codeine, and delta-8 THC contributed to the accident. However, notably, the FAA prohibits anindividual who uses gabapentin and/or delta-8 THC from acting as pilot-in-command of an aircraft
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Alcohol, an anticonvulsant, an opioid, and a cannabinoid all at once? It sounds like he was already having a good time on the ground...no need to take this party in the air. Sad.
 
Based on what I saw doing IPCs over the years w/ owners who fit a similar profile (i've never met this guy), the odds of the average Mooney owner/operator surviving IMC if their autopilot hiccupped was basically zero. I'd put my money on training/proficiency/equipment failures more than anything else.

I met a dude once who had been flying back-and-forth regardless of the weather in his Mooney between Nebraska and Ohio for like 30+ years, couple times a month (I study their logbook at the beginning of a flight review/ipc). If you disabled his autopilot, he was unable to control the airplane, even in VMC. Dude always had the thing on in wing-leveler mode w/ an override (CWS) button on the yoke he would hold whenever he wanted to turn. He wasn't thrilled when I wouldn't sign off a flight review or IPC.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah... And that sort of event always leaves me wondering about the person in the middle who lost both a parent and a child at the same time. Unimaginable.
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The psychological term is "complicated grief". In this case, dealing with loss, anger, and guilt at the same time. I doubt you come back from something like this.
 
jesse said:
Based on what I saw doing IPCs over the years w/ owners who fit a similar profile (i've never met this guy), the odds of the average Mooney owner/operator surviving IMC if their autopilot hiccupped was basically zero. I'd put my money on training/proficiency/equipment failures more than anything else.

I met a dude once who had been flying back-and-forth regardless of the weather in his Mooney between Nebraska and Ohio for like 30+ years, couple times a month (I study their logbook at the beginning of a flight review/ipc). If you disabled his autopilot, he was unable to control the airplane, even in VMC. Dude always had the thing on in wing-leveler mode w/ an override (CWS) button on the yoke he would hold whenever he wanted to turn. He wasn't thrilled when I wouldn't sign off a flight review or IPC.
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So how the hell he landed this thing … it certainly can be more difficult than flying it in VMC …
 
Warmi said:
So how the hell he landed this thing … it certainly can be more difficult than flying it in VMC …
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Truck loads of spare tires and luck, one hell of a two handed death grip, two legs shaking away at the rudder, and perhaps an angel in the other seat.
 
AquaLand said:
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

The pilot’s loss of control due to spatial disorientation while operating in instrument meteorological conditions. Contributing to the accident was the pilot’s impairment from the prohibited substance; however, the extent of impairment could not be determined.

NTSB Final Report N1025C
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Low cloud cover is common in that area. I got my PPL at KUNU, and have a hangar at KETB.

A couple of weeks ago I flew my Bonanza from KETB to Texas. After takeoff we were in hard IMC from less than 1,000AGL to the tops at ~4,000 MSL. Once we got up top it was no issue, but I can certainly see how it could catch a pilot out who is not proficient.
 
jesse said:
Based on what I saw doing IPCs over the years w/ owners who fit a similar profile (i've never met this guy), the odds of the average Mooney owner/operator surviving IMC if their autopilot hiccupped was basically zero. I'd put my money on training/proficiency/equipment failures more than anything else.

I met a dude once who had been flying back-and-forth regardless of the weather in his Mooney between Nebraska and Ohio for like 30+ years, couple times a month (I study their logbook at the beginning of a flight review/ipc). If you disabled his autopilot, he was unable to control the airplane, even in VMC. Dude always had the thing on in wing-leveler mode w/ an override (CWS) button on the yoke he would hold whenever he wanted to turn. He wasn't thrilled when I wouldn't sign off a flight review or IPC.
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Uuh, some years of Mooney have an always on wing leveler system. It was called PC or Positive Control. You had to push the button to bank. Some people used a rubber band to hold the button in.

 
Pinecone said:
Uuh, some years of Mooney have an always on wing leveler system. It was called PC or Positive Control. You had to push the button to bank. Some people used a rubber band to hold the button in.

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The older Mooney's vacuum powered Positive Control full time wing leveler was IMO a fantastic safety device, and at times I miss it (especially when paying big modern autopilot repair bills). An empty 35mm plastic film can would fit over the top of the pilot's yoke and hold the button down for the times a pilot wanted it disconnected to lighten up roll forces when not wanted, like doing air work.

Flying an ILS was made easy by the PC. Just applying light pressure onto the very top of either side of the yoke made it easy to track the localizer. The yoke would center itself automatically. The system was super simple, and very reliable.
 
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