Mooney down off Atlantic City

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Gsxrpilot

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Gsxrpilot
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N370MM

Debris field 17 miles off shore.

Not good... http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-in-Distress-off-Atlantic-City-326445161.html

This was another site's report: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/single-engine-plane-crashes-ocean-off-jersey-coast-33669789

18:33:55 - KACY Approach tries to reach 370MM
18:34:44 - KACY Approach tries again and asks for an Ident
18:35:55 - Wash Center tries to reach 370MM
18:36:05 - Wash Center tries again
18:37:52 - Descent begins from FL25
18:38:53 - Descent at 1600+ ft/min
18:42:34 - Approach calls again
18:42:37 - Wash Center tries again

Very sad...
 
Yeesh, sad, sounds like what happened over the Pacific a few weeks back. FL 250 is awfully high to be sucking O2 from a bottle IMO. Even with a good mask I was down on my sats by then.
 
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Henning said:
Yeesh, sad, sounds like what happened over the Pacific a few weeks back. FL 250 is awfully high to be sucking O2 from a bottle IMO. Even with a good mask I was down on my sats by then.
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I was thinking hypoxia as well.
 
How long do you have at that altitude approximately?

Well I guess that's not a fair question, because that is if it was a sudden loss. We're talking about a slow desaturation of O2 in the bloodstream.

So I guess the more important question is, approximately how long would it take the body to recover and you to become alert again in the decent?
 
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Archammer said:
How long do you have at that altitude approximately? minutes or seconds?
Click to expand...

It depends on the O2 flow you are getting and your personal physiology, but below 30,000' it won't likely be in the seconds even with no O2.
 
"In fact, FAA sources tell me the airport [of origin] is so small, it doesn't even have its own control tower."
 
I would think if he had expired and the plane was on autopilot, it would have gone a lot further off shore. The track on FlightAware is a straight line over the airport and past it by about 20 miles. The descent started a bit late, but doable with the speed brakes out. But the ground speed slows rapidly as the descent is about 1600 ft/min but then accelerates to 3000 then 5000 ft/min. It is interesting to me that there were comm issues prior to the start of the descent.

Of course the weather was terrible.
 
Gsxrpilot said:
I would think if he had expired and the plane was on autopilot, it would have gone a lot further off shore. The track on FlightAware is a straight line over the airport and past it by about 20 miles. The descent started a bit late, but doable with the speed brakes out. But the ground speed slows rapidly as the descent is about 1600 ft/min but then accelerates to 3000 then 5000 ft/min. It is interesting to me that there were comm issues prior to the start of the descent.

Of course the weather was terrible.
Click to expand...

Might have started to hand fly it.
 
Archammer said:
How long do you have at that altitude approximately?

Well I guess that's not a fair question, because that is if it was a sudden loss. We're talking about a slow desaturation of O2 in the bloodstream.

So I guess the more important question is, approximately how long would it take the body to recover and you to become alert again in the decent?
Click to expand...

Gsxrpilot said:
I would think if he had expired and the plane was on autopilot, it would have gone a lot further off shore. The track on FlightAware is a straight line over the airport and past it by about 20 miles. The descent started a bit late, but doable with the speed brakes out. But the ground speed slows rapidly as the descent is about 1600 ft/min but then accelerates to 3000 then 5000 ft/min. It is interesting to me that there were comm issues prior to the start of the descent.

Of course the weather was terrible.
Click to expand...

It didn't start decending until about 10 minutes before it wen't off radar so my guess is it was not a late decent but fuel exhaustion. We'll have to see if he was on flight following and reported in to other ATC facilities. Very sad situation.
 
Henning said:
Yeesh, sad, sounds like what happened over the Pacific a few weeks back. FL 250 is awfully high to be sucking O2 from a bottle IMO. Even with a good mask I was down on my sats by then.
Click to expand...

Heck, I've even had trouble getting enough o2 with an ok mask down at 15,000. Most masks I've come across are a bit on the leaky side?
 
Or electrical failure? Icing? Health issue? Combination of two:electrical failure disables d-icing. I hope they find out why this happen.
 
Wow! No wonder he was flying at 25K feet. Did you check his ground speeds? Scroll down a bit in Flightaware.

This is sad. RIP.
 
Henning said:
It depends on the O2 flow you are getting and your personal physiology, but below 30,000' it won't likely be in the seconds even with no O2.
Click to expand...

Re: Payne Stewart accident, etc. According to my pal who has many hours in a lear, it can happen very quickly as the lear climbed quickly and they all passed out......quickly. He went on to say that in the morning sun the pilot probably did not see the lights in the console between the seats and forgot to make the correct settings for the oxy. Pure speculation but a decent one I think. A mooney is a decent glider. If he'd been in control, it seems likely he could have made the airport from that height or at lest made it to the beach.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Re: Payne Stewart accident, etc. According to my pal who has many hours in a lear, it can happen very quickly as the lear climbed quickly and they all passed out......quickly. He went on to say that in the morning sun the pilot probably did not see the lights in the console between the seats and forgot to make the correct settings for the oxy. Pure speculation but a decent one I think. A mooney is a decent glider. If he'd been in control, it seems likely he could have made the airport from that height or at lest made it to the beach.
Click to expand...

Yeah, once you get above 30,000' things speed up, the thing is you really don't notice until you actually have to do something you need to think about, then you realize you can't think. If you're cruising along on AP watching a panel do what it's supposed to and the world going by nice and smoothly, you don't even notice yourself going down.
 
I lasted 5 minutes (max allowed at CAMI) @ 24k feet.
Everything was so subtle, I would never know it.

Only thing I really noticed was time started to pass by much faster.
I think the brain's sampling rate slows and makes it seem like time is moving faster.

That and mild dizziness on par with standing up too fast.
I'd be a gonner for sure.

Some people had major signs like tremors, purple finger tips, etc after just a minute or two.

Honestly, sounds like a great way to go out.
 
RIP

As a pilot and a paramedic, flying all O2 altitudes should be monitored with a PulseOximeter. They are inexpensive these days and they will help you continuously monitor your oxyhemoglobin level (SpO2). In fact, you can buy adjustable regulated nasal cannula and masks and use the reading of the PulseOx to adjust the amount of oxygen you need to maintain an adequate saturation level. Buy doing this you can save a lot of oxygen and stretch your supply very safely.

Normal levels for healthy non-smokers are between 95-99% SpO2, you’re normally just fine at >90, and you should become concerned at <90. Below 85-88 hypoxia will begin with subtle signs such as a relaxed and hideous sensation of “all's good in the world”, from there it gets worse as you don’t realize that you are slowly loosing consciousness and coordination - eventually passing out and staying that way - unless and until you descend low enough for the regular atmospheric pressures to bring your sats up.

At FL200 and above, the loss of O2, such as running out, will have an affect on you almost immediately. I did a few tests on a flight a year ago at FL190 in a C182T with another pilot. I stopped the O2 flow with a pulseOx of 97%. Within 2 minutes I was at 87% and at 5 min I was at 81% and totally “comical” according to my friend. I was unable to answer questions and I don’t remember him asking me anything. He turned the O2 back on and in less than 1 minute I was back up to 90% and then up to 97 shortly thereafter. I didn’t remember much and never realized that I was out of it completely. Scary.

I would never fly without a PulseOx when using O2.

As for the this pilot, hypoxia is a real probability, so is a medical event. The freezing was from 15000’ to FL270 and the tops were nearly that high in the area. If he started a decent, he would have likely encountered some ice on the way down.

Very sad.
 
AdamZ said:
It didn't start decending until about 10 minutes before it wen't off radar so my guess is it was not a late decent but fuel exhaustion. We'll have to see if he was on flight following and reported in to other ATC facilities. Very sad situation.
Click to expand...

Sounds like pilot incapacitation, most likely hypoxia. He stopped talking to ATC two hours prior to descending.
http://www.fox5ny.com/news/19185345-story
 
AdamZ said:
It didn't start decending until about 10 minutes before it wen't off radar so my guess is it was not a late decent but fuel exhaustion. We'll have to see if he was on flight following and reported in to other ATC facilities. Very sad situation.
Click to expand...

He would have been IFR since he was above FL180.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I lasted 5 minutes (max allowed at CAMI) @ 24k feet.
Everything was so subtle, I would never know it.

Only thing I really noticed was time started to pass by much faster.
I think the brain's sampling rate slows and makes it seem like time is moving faster.

That and mild dizziness on par with standing up too fast.
I'd be a gonner for sure.

Some people had major signs like tremors, purple finger tips, etc after just a minute or two.

Honestly, sounds like a great way to go out.
Click to expand...

SOP for me....above 10K pulse oximeter is ON MY FINGER....in a pressurized aircraft!!!!!!!! (Exclamation points emphasized)

YMMV.....
 
Plane and body recovered, pilot ID'd as Michael Moir.
FAA data shows "Commercial Pilot, Airplane Single and Multi Engine Land, Instrument Airplane" with a current class 3 medical.
 
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