MOA airspace

Peter Ha

Peter Ha

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Hey folks,
Planning a long cross-county between several states and there's several MOA I must cross (Shirley, Sheppard, Westover, Bronco).
It will be VFR; are there any special considerations for MOA (like live artillery or heat-seeking missiles :eek:)?
 
Understand the difference between a MOA and a restricted area. You are not going to find artillery in a MOA. What you may find is fast movers low that do not have to comply with speed restrictions.

The purpose of a MOA is to separate IFR traffic from participating traffic. No protection afforded to VFR traffic. See and Be seen.

With that being said, get on flight following for advisories,find out if the MOA is hot, and keep your head on a swivel. I’ve flown VFR through lots of them.


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Try to avoid as much as possible as to not create a training interruption, but if you really must penetrate, utilize ATC FF to maximize safety.

No hazardous activity such as artillery or missiles. A few in Florida/ Cali have Tomahawk cooridors thru them but none in your case. Mostly jets but some transport / helos to look out for as well.
 
Velocity173 said:
Try to avoid as much as possible as to not create a training interruption, but if you really must penetrate, utilize ATC FF to maximize safety.

No hazardous activity such as artillery or missiles. A few in Florida/ Cali have Tomahawk cooridors thru them but none in your case. Mostly jets but some transport / helos to look out for as well.
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What's the deal with the alert area NE of PIckens County? Who uses that for low level fixed and rotary wing training?
 
Bill Jennings said:
What's the deal with the alert area NE of PIckens County? Who uses that for low level fixed and rotary wing training?
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I believe that's used for Army Ranger training with helicopters. There are also some MTRs through/near that area. I frequently see jets blasting through there below the mountain peaks.
 
Bill Jennings said:
What's the deal with the alert area NE of PIckens County? Who uses that for low level fixed and rotary wing training?
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Army Ranger Mountain Training School. UH-60s / UH-72s come up from Benning and work with the Ranger students. It’s rarely active and only goes to like 700 ft.
 
Bill Jennings said:
What's the deal with the alert area NE of PIckens County? Who uses that for low level fixed and rotary wing training?
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It is there as there is some low level rotary wing traffic supporting the US Army Ranger School at camp Merrill near Dalonaga. Also, be on the lookout for UH-60s going into Pickens county to refuel.


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EdFred said:
Not always necessary. They may not be using the entire MOA, or may be at altitudes that don't affect you. And in some cases, avoiding them is not possible.
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Hence flight following.

Back when I arced around MOAs we often split the area between the section to do some independent work then got back together for formation stuff. We wouldn’t be working the whole area all the time but it was declared hot for us. The areas with multiple areas (A B etc) are usually small enough you won’t find fast movers restricted to a single one except for some big areas out west.

As well, FF isn’t perfect. On one of my first low level training events in the T-47 we were on a VR route through a MOA and went beak to beak with a section of F-15s both of us @500’ and us at 360 kts. They were faster and not a word from ATC. Right to right at about 200’ feet laterally.

Flying safely is about risk management. Work all the tools.
 
Just keep your eyes out, which you should be doing anyways, aside from that carry on.
 
If there's an emergency and I landed in MOA, will the MP hull me to brig? :rolleyes:
 
write-stuff said:
I believe that's used for Army Ranger training with helicopters. There are also some MTRs through/near that area. I frequently see jets blasting through there below the mountain peaks.
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Velocity173 said:
Army Ranger Mountain Training School. UH-60s / UH-72s come up from Benning and work with the Ranger students. It’s rarely active and only goes to like 700 ft.
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Nsconductor said:
It is there as there is some low level rotary wing traffic supporting the US Army Ranger School at camp Merrill near Dalonaga. Also, be on the lookout for UH-60s going into Pickens county to refuel.


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Thanks, y'all! I've cross that area a good number of times and not seen any activity.
 
Peter Ha said:
If there's an emergency and I landed in MOA, will the MP hull me to brig? :rolleyes:
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Only if a) you land on a military base, b) you're in the military, AND c) you're doing something illegal. Forced landings aren't illegal.


EDIT: You don't have to be in the military to be arrested by MPs if you do something illegal on a military base.
 
Lots of civil airports in (or under) MOAs. Lots of military fields around that aren't in MOAs or restricted areas. You don't want to land a military-only airport without authorization.

You may have difficulty taking off again if you do this. I used to be based at a military field. We'd get an occasional lost student pilot or other errant pilot.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Thanks, y'all! I've cross that area a good number of times and not seen any activity.
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A few times I’ve looked down and seen Black Hawks going in and out of their mountain LZs. You might see a MEDEVAC UH-72 on their pad also. But yeah, it’s not very active considering it’s an Alert Area.

 
Read and memorize the key points of Chapter 3 of the AIM and Chapter 15 of the PHAK

@Peter Ha ... gotta nudge you in the ribs to try to answer these questions for yourself by looking at the FAA publications before going to Internet forums.
 
Examples of activities conducted in MOAs include, but are not limited to: air combat tactics, air intercepts, aerobatics, formation training, and low-altitude tactics. Military pilots flying in an active MOA are exempted from the provisions of 14 CFR Section 91.303(c) and (d) which prohibits aerobatic flight within Class D and Class E surface areas, and within Federal airways. Additionally, the Department of Defense has been issued an authorization to operate aircraft at indicated airspeeds in excess of 250 knots below 10,000 feet MSL within active MOA.

It is very unlikely to get ATC traffic advisories in an active MOA. Normally ATC terminates radar service prior to entry.
 
Ravioli said:
Did you miss a smiley on this? How can a civilian airport be off limits to civilian pilots?
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I’m lazy when it comes to adding smilies these days. I thought it was obvious with his “eye roll” that he was kidding, as was I in my reply. :)
 
Peter Ha said:
Hey folks,
Planning a long cross-county between several states and there's several MOA I must cross (Shirley, Sheppard, Westover, Bronco).
It will be VFR; are there any special considerations for MOA (like live artillery or heat-seeking missiles :eek:)?
Click to expand...

Get a briefing before you go to determine active status of MOA's. Get FF once in the air, they are usually aware of military training in area. If the MOA has a tower, FF will transfer you to that tower. If it's inconvenient to do so, no need to divert around a MOA as VFR traffic. Engage your autopilot or hand fly a straight course and you'll be fine. Any military pilots in the area will know you are there.
 
Ravioli said:
Only if a) you land on a military base, b) you're in the military, AND c) you're doing something illegal. Forced landings aren't illegal.


EDIT: You don't have to be in the military to be arrested by MPs if you do something illegal on a military base.
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You don't have to be in the military to be arrested by the MPs regardless.....BTDT. Took a wrong turn at Edwards AFB one day and ended up on the runway. Looked just like the road to me. Didn't get arrested, fortunately.

And then there was the time I was doing 20 mph on base at Ft Huachuca, AZ....speeding ticket for going 20!!!!
 
Peter Ha said:
MOA I must cross (Shirley, Sheppard, Westover, Bronco).
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Check the floors for these MOA. Unless you like to fly high, you're likely to just fly right under them, no big deal. That's what I do.
  • Sheppard one and two are 8000+ MSL
  • Westover one is 9000+ MSL
  • Westover two is 10000+ MSL
  • Shirley is 11000+ MSL
  • Bronco one is 8000+ MSL,
  • Bronco two three and four are 10000+ MSL
 
If flying near MOA's don't overlook the MTR's. We are close to two MOA's and the VR route gets flown regularly and they are typically hauling the mail at low level heading to the MOA. Helicopters too.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yes. All civilian airports located in MOAs are off limits to civilian pilots.
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I'm sure you're being facetious, but some readers might not realize that.

It can be very attractive, actually, to land at airports under MOAs. I refuel all the time at KWWR Woodward in western Oklahoma, which is under the Vance One MOA (which has an 8000' floor). Full-serve gas that's cheaper than almost all self-serves.
 
flyingron said:
I'm only at 10,000' and don't call me Shirley.
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Good one!

I actually had never heard of the Shirley MOA. Had to look it up. It's near Little Rock. I can imagine controllers and pilots who live around there make lots of jokes about it.

The others listed by the OP are in the West Texas vicinity, and I've encountered them, without thinking of any jokes.
 
It looks like you’re headed into The Roswell, NM area. The real hazard out there is the UFO traffic... good thing there’s plenty of military aircraft around
 
Clip4 said:
It is very unlikely to get ATC traffic advisories in an active MOA. Normally ATC terminates radar service prior to entry.
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In what century? Controlling agencies can and do give advisories in MOAs all the time. In fact, going VFR with FF can often save you a bunch of time through a hot MOA, as they will vector IFR traffic outside it. With FF, the controlling facility will give advisories and they actually prefer to be talking to you. Lemoore is a MOA that is often hot and VFR flight through there can save a bunch of time.
 
N1120A said:
In what century? Controlling agencies can and do give advisories in MOAs all the time. In fact, going VFR with FF can often save you a bunch of time through a hot MOA, as they will vector IFR traffic outside it. With FF, the controlling facility will give advisories and they actually prefer to be talking to you. Lemoore is a MOA that is often hot and VFR flight through there can save a bunch of time.
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All depends on the controller and what’s going on inside the MOA. I’ve been terminated a couple of times due to the MOA (Bulldog) activity. I know a couple years back @simtech was terminated by ATL center and was told that they don’t provide FF thru MOAs. I confirmed that on the phone with them.

is it against policy to not provide FF especially when the AIM says to contact ATC for traffic advisories in a MOA? I’d say yes, unless they use a weak excuse of workload or equipment limitations.

We had MOAs at our facility and I never once denied service. I figured they were going to go thru anyway. Be a heck of a lot safer if they at least knew the general location of the “sharks” around them.
 
Velocity173 said:
All depends on the controller and what’s going on inside the MOA. I’ve been terminated a couple of times due to the MOA (Bulldog) activity. I know a couple years back @simtech was terminated by ATL center and was told that they don’t provide FF thru MOAs. I confirmed that on the phone with them.

is it against policy to not provide FF especially when the AIM says to contact ATC for traffic advisories in a MOA? I’d say yes, unless they use a weak excuse of workload or equipment limitations.

We had MOAs at our facility and I never once denied service. I figured they were going to go thru anyway. Be a heck of a lot safer if they at least knew the general location of the “sharks” around them.
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I was responding to a post that said it is very unlikely to get advisories through a MOA. In my experience, it is very likely that you get said advisories, with the exceptions that you mentioned.
 
A good amount of the time the MOA will be cold. The ‘controlling’ ATC facility has the latest info, ask them. The simple way is with FF. I try to go around or below any active MOA, maybe clip the corner at times.
 
N1120A said:
I was responding to a post that said it is very unlikely to get advisories through a MOA. In my experience, it is very likely that you get said advisories, with the exceptions that you mentioned.
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I’d agree. In my experience, more times that not, they’ll work me thru.
 
I’ve had a controller tell me in a MOA “MOA is hot, multiple primary radar targets 9-12 o’clock, altitude unknown” kinda gives you a warm and fuzzy. I was just on the corner and at the bottom but nonetheless...
 
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