MLB stadium TFR: what can flight service tell us in a briefing?

NoHeat

NoHeat

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Baseball season is here, so I read the Lockheed Martin Flight Services web page announcement. See below. It's as clear as mud. After reading it, I still don't know whether a briefer will tell me about baseball stadium TFRs along my route. Any ideas?

Play Ball! Be Aware of Sporting Event TFRs

March 30, 2016

The Major League Baseball (MLB) season resumes regular season play on Sunday, April 3, 2016, with the official Opening Day scheduled for Monday, April 4, 2016. Pilots are reminded that Sporting event Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFRs) are in effect one hour prior to the event, to one hour after the event, for stadiums with a seating capacity of more than 30,000 people. The pilot is solely responsible for avoiding the areas of restricted airspace associated with published security NOTAMs. Flight service specialists do not have access to specific event times and locations, but are happy to provide details of the FDC NOTAM 4/3621 Sporting Events should you request.
Therefore, when you ask the specialist for TFRs along your route of flight or request an online briefing, you may expect the specialist to provide unpublished TFR information that is not associated with the “blanket” sporting event TFR. Ensure you check your route of flight for the possibility of a Sporting Event TFR or published TFR. Read more.
Pilots may also find helpful the information made available by North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) for successfully navigating TFR, Special Flight Rules Areas (SFRA), and Special Use Airspace. Read more.
Lockheed Martin Flight Service: Better Briefings, Safer Flights with online, phone and radio services. Follow us on Twitter @1800wxbrief.​
 
Seems pretty clear that they will tell you it is there but not when it is active. That being said if you are on flight following or IFR you can get right through it without issue. It is not like a Presidential TFR where it is a no go no matter what.
 
almost as clear as...“ I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” why use a dozen words when several dozen will do?
 
Cykoguy said:
Seems pretty clear that they will tell you it is there but not when it is active. That being said if you are on flight following or IFR you can get right through it without issue. It is not like a Presidential TFR where it is a no go no matter what.
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Explain "...they will tell you it is there..." when LM's website says "Flight service specialists do not have access to specific event times and locations..."?
 
kkoran said:
Explain "...they will tell you it is there..." when LM's website says "Flight service specialists do not have access to specific event times and locations..."?
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They can tell you that there is a published TFR for various types of stadiums around game time. But you already knew that. They will not tell you if said TFR is active at any particular time or when the games are scheduled.
 
May not help in all situations, but Reno Tower keeps track of Mackay Stadium when UNR has it active and let's departing pilot's now. Just stay 3,000 AGL while enroute and these are a none factor since that is the ceiling for a vast majority of these stadium TFR's.

Cheers,
Brian
 
What MLB team is in Reno? ;)

How many MLB stadiums aren't in controlled airspace or so far away from a facility that you aren't going to be talking to ATC?
 
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EdFred said:
What MLB team is in Reno? ;)

How many MLB stadiums aren't in controlled airspace or so far away from a facility that you aren't going to be talking to ATC?
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College stadiums are a problem. They are, at least where I'm familiar, generally in smaller cities, not under a B or C, and usually have at least one uncontrolled airport nearby. And not every D1 (or whatever acronym they use now) game is on ESPN.
 
About a year ago I asked Lockheed Martin for specific times for the Rose Bowl and they did not have them.
As I was heading west I asked ATC at El Monte and she didn’t know what time the game began.
I fly low there to go under Burbank’s airspace near the mountains. I altered my course just in case.
 
I was returning to home airdrome knowing that NASCAR race was that afternoon. Called approach to penetrate the Class B and asked what time the race ended.

They said they did not know and asked why I asked.

Well, the TFR is active until 1hr after the race ends.

And they respond.. What TFR?

Well... If you don't know about the TFR, then I guess I don't need to worry about it.

They said, there is no TFR.

I thanked them, started descent and then suggested they go back and re read the security NOTAM.

They came back about 5 minutes later and said, oh.. That TFR.
 
I flew from KCHD to KGEU today. For that flight I flew through two 'inactive' stadium TFR's. There is one over Phoenix International Raceway, and University of Phoenix Stadium. I called 1-800-WXBRIEF just to double check with them. The answer I got was, "I'm sorry, we can't tell you when it's active." I responded with, "OK, so I checked the website for both facilities, and they don't have any events today, so am I good?" The briefer very politely responded with, "I'm sorry, I can't answer that question, It's up to you to verify compliance with the TFR." These things are such a joke...
 
I think what we take from all of this is, if no one looking at the RADAR screens knows or cares about the TFR then who is going to bust a pilot for zipping through one?
 
kkoran said:
Explain "...they will tell you it is there..." when LM's website says "Flight service specialists do not have access to specific event times and locations..."?
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This is some semantics but a TFR existing is very different from it being active. The
" when LM's website says "Flight service specialists do not have access to specific event times and locations..."? is the CYA for them that goes back to the normal pilots responsibility to adhere to all FARs and operate in a safe fashion. It is nothing more or less. Who the hell knows where the briefer is thus they probably won't care if the Royals or Cubs are playing. However if you are talking with KC Center/Approach or one of the Chicago facilities being local they may have a general idea of if/when a game is that day.

The nice thing is it is only 3K AGL and a 3 mile radius so it is easy to avoid if you are unsure.
 
Even calling the contollers at KC Center directly and asking about the TFR for a Royals game is no guarantee.

"Is the stadium TFR active?"

"Hmm... I think they are in town tonight, playing the Blue Jays, maybe? Let me check my iPhone for you...oh, yeah...cell phones aren't allowed in here...oh, and my scope won't tune in ESPN. How about looking out the window? See that stadium at about your 2 o'clock? Are the lights on? Are the seats full?"

That might work differently if Center had someone who paid attention to the stadiums inside the ZKC jurisdiction. I don't know how many that would be.

I'm not sure controllers really care about a TFR they purposely don't know about.
 
Matthew said:
I'm not sure controllers really care about a TFR they purposely don't know about.
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Interesting. Maybe it varies by location and controller.

In St. Louis, Busch Stadium is under the shelf of Class B, where normally you can fly at 2500'. I once heard an approach controller who clearly knew about the TFR and a game that was underway. He was providing flight following for a VFR sightseer over the nearby river, and told the pilot it's okay to sightsee near the game as long as they were talking to each other.
 
Over here under the DFW class B we have stadium TFR's for MLB, NFL, NBA, College... I think Frisco, TX even has one for the Soccer stadium.

I think I've gotten complacent about them because when I have asked they've always said "you're with me, no worries". Kind of like the permanent Disnelyland/Knott's Berry Farm TFR in SoCal... Never been steered around them.
 
rolivi said:
Over here under the DFW class B we have stadium TFR's for MLB, NFL, NBA, College... I think Frisco, TX even has one for the Soccer stadium.

I think I've gotten complacent about them because when I have asked they've always said "you're with me, no worries". Kind of like the permanent Disnelyland/Knott's Berry Farm TFR in SoCal... Never been steered around them.
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No TFR for basketball, they play indoors so they aren't worried about banners.
 
I thought the TFRs were for the large number of humans that were accumulated. (AKA Target rich) But yes, they are Stadium TFR's not Arena TFR's.

Is the actual reason to prohibit "Vote for _____" banner towing?
 
Just an extension of "safe spaces". No micro or macro-aggressions allowed. Haha.
 
rolivi said:
I thought the TFRs were for the large number of humans that were accumulated. (AKA Target rich) But yes, they are Stadium TFR's not Arena TFR's.

Is the actual reason to prohibit "Vote for _____" banner towing?
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It protects against advertising that the stadium owners don't get a cut of. If it was for security, it would have to apply to a lot more events.
 
I'm not following these "save us from banner towers" ideas.

There's banner towers up around Coors Field every summer, and have been since MLB TFRs came out.

Seems like they apparently have a waiver of some sort.

Usually promoting strip clubs at least once during the game. Or at least a bar, encouraging everybody to stop by and get hammered and then drive home.

(Which doesn't bother me at all, but I mention it to point out that the things advertised aren't exactly PC mini van soccer mom approved.)

Being that it's the stadium where a family who's two boys had never seen a baseball game was recently ejected for tossing an opposing team's home run ball back onto the field, I'm sure it's not for a lack of trying to be over-controlling ass-hats.
 
rolivi said:
I thought the TFRs were for the large number of humans that were accumulated. (AKA Target rich) But yes, they are Stadium TFR's not Arena TFR's.

Is the actual reason to prohibit "Vote for _____" banner towing?
Click to expand...

Large groups only at specific sports - not large groups in general. Just those who lobbied to shoo non-revenue sharing banner tows.

SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, COMMENCING ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED TIME OF THE EVENT UNTIL ONE HOUR AFTER THE END OF THE EVENT. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS; INCLUDING PARACHUTE JUMPING, UNMANNED AIRCRAFT AND REMOTE CONTROLLED AIRCRAFT, ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN A 1410271420-PERM END PART 1 OF 3 FDC 4/3621 FDC PART 2 OF 3 SPECIAL 3NMR UP TO AND INCLUDING 3000FT AGL OF ANY STADIUM HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 30,000 OR MORE PEOPLE WHERE EITHER A REGULAR OR POST SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE, OR NCAA DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL GAME IS OCCURRING. THIS NOTAM ALSO APPLIES TO NASCAR SPRINT CUP, INDY CAR, AND CHAMP SERIES RACES EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS. FLIGHTS CONDUCTED FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES OF ANY EVENT, STADIUM OR VENUE AND BROADCAST COVERAGE FOR THE BROADCAST RIGHTS HOLDER ARE AUTHORIZED WITH AN APPROVED AIRSPACE WAIVER. AN FAA AIRSPACE WAIVER DOES NOT RELIEVE OPERATORS FROM OBTAINING ALL OTHER NECESSARY AUTHORIZATIONS AND COMPLYING WITH ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATIONS. THE RESTRICTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS
 
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