Misdemeanor charge question

[denverpilot]

Dang. Now worried some one I have never met, will never meet, and have nothing in common with thinks I am shallow.

Oh my.

Keep digging. You got caught in your usual intolerant ASSumptions about people.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

How does not hiring racists make me a bigot?

By Assuming that someone in a picture with any "controversial" flag (confederate, black lives matter, la raza etc) is a bigot. You're judging them based solely on your perception of their beliefs based on a picture. That's the definition of bigotry.

 

[overdrive148]

Them Duke boys are at it again...

 

[James331]

How does not hiring racists make me a bigot?

I wouldn't call you a bigot, just poorly educated.

Lol, you appear to have no idea why that war was fought, probably because you were the product of our crappy public school system, spoiler alert, no one cared enough about black rights to wage a war one way or the other, not the south, not the north

And this is exactly the reason I don't divulge information, not on Facebook, as I'm not even on Facebook, and not from some random non work/aviation event from my past that they won't even be able to find anyways, that's not even going to come up on a FBI background check that I could run on myself for $20, you get HR types who function on a low level who don't have a knowledge base to actually have a understanding of the issue, better not to open yourself up to getting judged by someone who isn't qualified to make said judgement.

 

[flyingron]

Black rights, perhaps not (remember we didn't even consider giving women the right to vote until later, we didn't even consistently have universal WHITE MALE sufferage at the time of the war). Slavery as an institution, most certainly. It's only the later apologist movement starting with the immediate post war "lost causes" movement that distorted the reason for southern secession. The war was a combination of issues including the secession and Lincoln's actions.

 

[wsuffa]

Making the hiring decision based on incorrect information would be a problem. But as much as that's what you want to talk about since you only see one side to the issue, it's not what I am referring to.

I'm not talking about idle chatter about someone, but posts by the person being looked at. And even when it's others talking about someone, it might bear further investigation. Searching Facebook and other social media posts of and about a prospective employee, employer, litigant, witness, boyfriend, girlfriend, seller, buyer, business, etc has become standard. There are surveys to indicate about three-quarters of recruiters and about half of all employers check out applicants online. Prospects have been rejected for indications of drug use, heavy drinking, offensive (in the eye of the beholder) materials, and more. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that, in certain industries, it might be considered a failure of due diligence failure to not having done it if problems that would have been uncovered arise later.

You obviously don't like that. That doesn't make it not so.

Exactly.

At least one employer I worked for (big government contractor) would terminate *not* for the arrest/conviction happening but for you being dishonest in not reporting it. There are others that do similar. If you post about it on FB or elsewhere and they find it, they will dig until they find the base record - or will simply ask you directly. At that point you either double-down on the lie, or you cook your own goose. Either way, you lose.

There are things that may not show up in the FBI database. They can still be found. That's why background check firms offer either an FBI check, or a an FBI check with additional locality checks. That may just be where you lived before, or it may include other jurisdictions. And some states have state and local court records available online for anyone with a web browser.

And some of the "ban the box" laws only ban it at the initial application stage, but allow it in the final selection process.

You've only got one reputation. Protect it well.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Although rejecting an applicant on the basis of images on his or her social media page may be ignorant, I feel that a private employer should be free to choose who they want to hire regardless of the motivation. And an acceptable fit within the work culture IS an valid factor in selection, in my opinion. Our Muslim department lead gets along fine with our Jewish council. If he came in waving an ISIS banner, we might have given that a second thought. If he has an ISIS banner on his social media, I wouldn't know because I could care less about social media, and we rely on background checks anyway to weed out bad players.

 

[denverpilot]

Black rights, perhaps not (remember we didn't even consider giving women the right to vote until later, we didn't even consistently have universal WHITE MALE sufferage at the time of the war). Slavery as an institution, most certainly. It's only the later apologist movement starting with the immediate post war "lost causes" movement that distorted the reason for southern secession. The war was a combination of issues including the secession and Lincoln's actions.

Yup. The emancipation proclamation was more about Lincoln trying to figure out how to get republicans and whigs to get along than anything. He needed a political distraction from most people thinking he and his cabinet were a hot mess.

Talk about executive orders... he rescinds Habeas Corpus, and orders a standing army to march upon and fire upon people who legally voted to leave his country. Think about the cojones a defense attorney by trade, has to have to do that. They flipped him off, he pointed the Federal Army at them.

Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason, and for good reason. The chief of SCOTUS warned Lincoln (and more pointedly Stanton, who made Dick Cheney look like a hippie pacifist) not to try it, they'd start the war back up over coverage of the trial, and then they'd lose in court because the votes were valid and there was no standing for the U.S. to force State participation in the Union, legally. In fact there was no written way to leave, at all.

Stanton apparently wasn't stupid and listened, after leading the charge to put Davis on trial at first, and of course Lincoln was dead soon enough. Davis hung out under house arrest for a while.

 

[flyingron]

The emancipation proclamation was a later issue, it wasn't issued until two years AFTER the first shots were fired.

 

[Sam D]

Right or wrong, the interview process is all about making assumptions about people.

 

[Hank S]

The emancipation proclamation was a later issue, it wasn't issued until two years AFTER the first shots were fired.

Yep. Read the history. During the War, Lincoln freed only the slaves living in the Confederacy. Granted, that was most of them, but he did not free any salves in the Union territory.

But what does the Civil War have to do with flying? Sure, there were (a very few) observation balloons, but that was it, and this is the first mention if them in this thread . . .

 

[JoseCuervo]

Keep digging. You got caught in your usual intolerant ASSumptions about people.

Yes, I dont have not have much tolerance for racists.

Guess that must be a character flaw of mine. Glad people like you have tolerance for racists, somebody has to love them, I guess....

 

[JoseCuervo]

By Assuming that someone in a picture with any "controversial" flag (confederate, black lives matter, la raza etc) is a bigot. You're judging them based solely on your perception of their beliefs based on a picture. That's the definition of bigotry.

Yeah, people that are dumb enough to wave confederate flags on social media aren't ones that are smart enough to be in my employ.

That is not bigotry.

 

[denverpilot]

Yes, I dont have not have much tolerance for racists.

Guess that must be a character flaw of mine. Glad people like you have tolerance for racists, somebody has to love them, I guess....

So now you think the guy who plays Taps for military funerals so they don't have to use a recording, and who's family built the first public radio station in the State here is a racist.

Keep digging that hole there. You're looking dumber and dumber. But that's not really new here when you're caught making crap up.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I wouldn't call you a bigot, just poorly educated.

Lol, you appear to have no idea why that war was fought, probably because you were the product of our crappy public school system, spoiler alert, no one cared enough about black rights to wage a war one way or the other, not the south, not the north

And this is exactly the reason I don't divulge information, not on Facebook, as I'm not even on Facebook, and not from some random non work/aviation event from my past that they won't even be able to find anyways, that's not even going to come up on a FBI background check that I could run on myself for $20, you get HR types who function on a low level who don't have a knowledge base to actually have a understanding of the issue, better not to open yourself up to getting judged by someone who isn't qualified to make said judgement.

Pretty sure the guys that are applying for work with Confederate flags on Facebook are NOT mid 19th century political science students. Nor, have they spent time trying to torture their understanding of what the confederate flag means, or what the revisionist view of the war by racists is.

They look at the flag solely as the racist banner it is, and how it meets their worldview.

It is pretty easy to scroll through someone's Facebook profile and see if their affinity for a confederate flag is based on racism is or if they are part of a group of civil war reenactors who like to play dress up.

 

[denverpilot]

It is pretty easy to scroll through someone's Facebook profile and see if their affinity for a confederate flag is based on racism is or if they are part of a group of civil war reenactors who like to play dress up.

Ahhh you finally figured it out. Context.

And of course there's still plenty of people who aren't racists who also fly that flag. Just because you've decided to label everyone who has one in a photo, doesn't really change that fact.

Here's one benefit of having something like that on your FB page. It'd keep someone small-minded enough to assume something like that... from a photo... from ever hiring you.

You wouldn't want someone that pea-brained as a boss, anyway. So it's a built in pea-brain deterrent online.

Especially since... on FB, anyway... that stuff is a few mouse clicks away from being set to private, and one can flip it off and it'd take some
digging to find it after that.

Then just turn it back on after the pea-brain offers you a job... if you're worried about needing to be hired by someone who obviously doesn't know how FB works.

I totally agree, there's dummies and pea-brains who are racist who'd be dumb enough to leave the photo up. But if you're looking at FB and thinking you're getting the whole picture of someone, you're nuts.

The Facebook page of the guy who was fired for jerking off in a trash can at work right out in the open, was squeaky clean. Still is, many years later. Still don't know what the hell that guy was thinking.

Same with the idiot who got fired for standing around in a call center of young people picking stuff out from between his teeth with a Bowie knife.

Or the guy who's motto was, "It was working when I left!", as he drove away from whatever facility he just broke something at while doing other unsupervised maintenance work he should have been capable of accomplishing.

All look plenty normal on their public personas. FB, LinkedIn, you name it.

If there's one thing I've learned in hiring folks over the years is their personal lives aren't much of an indication of how well they'll work out.

(And no I didn't hire those people above, that was someone else back then.)

The most bigoted mysogenistic person I ever met in business had a lovely FB page with photos of his family and hell, he'd put ponies and rainbows up there if it'd get him something he wanted. Lovely resume from USAF too. It all looked great "on paper" as they say.

His superiors almost didn't see it in time to avoid a sexual harassment lawsuit. Dude thought he was hot stuff. Luckily folks cared enough about the place to quietly let the people above him know that he was pushing it with female staff and there was going to be hell to pay and probably already should have been.

A flag on a FB page is pretty meaningless. The real psychos hide it all.

 

[flyingron]

A confederate flag doesn't guarantee that the displayer is a racist, but it's a good indication that this is a possibility. The confederate battle flags didn't actually appear widely until they were specifically used for discriminatory purposes. You can argue heritage, but it is really double speak for discrimination. In fact, the William Porter Miles Northern Virginia Army battle flag (the one generally displayed) was **NOT** the national flag of the confederacy. There were three such flags of the confederacy and the battle flag was not one of them, in fact, it was specifically disapproved.'

Anyhow, being a bigot isn't a protected class.

 

[James331]

Pretty sure the guys that are applying for work with Confederate flags on Facebook are NOT mid 19th century political science students. Nor, have they spent time trying to torture their understanding of what the confederate flag means, or what the revisionist view of the war by racists is.

They look at the flag solely as the racist banner it is, and how it meets their worldview.

It is pretty easy to scroll through someone's Facebook profile and see if their affinity for a confederate flag is based on racism is or if they are part of a group of civil war reenactors who like to play dress up.

As someone who lived in south, I can tell you it's not a racist banner, despite what the uneducated and miseducated northern folks would like you to believe, it more middle finger to the Feds, a let me live my life, and a don't meddle with my life symbol

 

[flyingron]

As someone who lived in south, I can tell you it's not a racist banner, despite what the uneducated and miseducated northern folks would like you to believe, it more middle finger to the Feds, a let me live my life, and a don't meddle with my life symbol

Chortle. Last I checked NC is the south. Those who argue it not racist neglect the history of its use. They're either racist or ignorant, neither is EEOC protected designation. The flag was largely adopted by organizations who hadn't seen it since the civil war as a specific counter to the birth of the civil rights movement (starting during the Truman presidency). It didn't appear, for example, at Ol' Miss until 1962 in protest of admissions of blacks. It didn't appear over the Georgia statehouse until 1963, until George Wallace did so to protest desegregation. It was encompassed into the 1956 Georgia state flag version to show that the legislature "was entirely devoted to passing legislation that would preserve segregation and white supremacy."

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Yeah, people that are dumb enough to wave confederate flags on social media aren't ones that are smart enough to be in my employ.

That is not bigotry.

Yes that is the definition of bigotry.

 

[JoseCuervo]

And of course there's still plenty of people who aren't racists who also fly that flag. Just because you've decided to label everyone who has one in a photo, doesn't really change that fact.

Here's one benefit of having something like that on your FB page. It'd keep someone small-minded enough to assume something like that... from a photo... from ever hiring you.

You wouldn't want someone that pea-brained as a boss, anyway. So it's a built in pea-brain deterrent online.
.

Just not going to change my mind and start hiring racists.

When you own your own business, run your own business, invest your own capital, protect your reputation to put food on the plates of your employees and their families, you can hire all the racists you like.

Me? I will use whatever tools are easy, handy, and reliable to help me run my companies in the manner that I see fit.

 

[denverpilot]

Just not going to change my mind and start hiring racists.

When you own your own business, run your own business, invest your own capital, protect your reputation to put food on the plates of your employees and their families, you can hire all the racists you like.

Me? I will use whatever tools are easy, handy, and reliable to help me run my companies in the manner that I see fit.

Keep digging that hole. Getting pretty deep now.

And you're still making up scenarios that don't match your original words to call people racists who aren't racists.

In other words, being an intolerant bigot.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I wouldn't call you a bigot, just poorly educated.

Lol, you appear to have no idea why that war was fought, probably because you were the product of our crappy public school system, spoiler alert, no one cared enough about black rights to wage a war one way or the other, not the south, not the north

.

Tell me again how the confederate flag is not a symbol of racism and intolerance....

And has been for decades......

I could go on and on..... But, I am guessing you might soon start seeing the connection between racists and the confederate flag. As do many potential employers.....

 

[JoseCuervo]

And you're still making up scenarios that don't match your original words to call people racists who aren't racists.
.

Yeah, I am making up scenarios.....

I forget, which war are these guys re-enacting???

 

[Everskyward]

I could go on and on.....

Please don't. It's not welcome here. You can take this discussion elsewhere.