Mid Air at Johnson Creek

I feel bad for that Dad and the strain it might put on the relationship with his wife. Who knows what it took for him to convince her allow Jr. to even attend an uncontrolled back country fly in with an accident history like that. Did you see that list of accidents in the article? Wow. I'm certainly not Monday morning QBing, but I'd have reservations, given my own personal limits and those limits would be even more conservative with my kid in attendence.

Maybe Mom was completely on board with the kid attending the fly in. I certainly hope so. I hope to God she's nothing like my wife who regularly vetos discovery flights.
 
LandSickness said:
Did you see that list of accidents in the article? Wow.
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The list didn't seem that long for an airfield that popular with a non-traditional approach. Nor did the list entirely match that of the AOPA ASI:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/ntsb/searchResults.cfm?identifier=3U2&helicopter=BOTH
(Not sure if that will work if you aren't an AOPA member with a web account.)

ASI shows 14 accidents since 1993, with only 2 of those involving fatalities.

To get a proper perspective it may be worthwhile to query different airports in the AOPA airports directory and click on the "Accident Reports" for them (near the bottom of the airport's page under Air Safety Institute Resources.)
 
Silvaire said:
Seeing that they were both landing at Johnson Creek I'm pretty sure that both of their heads were "outside" the airplane. Sounds like a classic high wing/low wing conflict in which case they just plain couldn't see each other. The question is why were they both in that spot because Johnson Creek is not a place where people are coming into the pattern from all different directions. Must have been a comm failure, maybe wrong freq or inadvertent wrong selection on audio panel so neither of them knew at all that the other was there.
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Didn't you get the memo? You don't have to have to use your radio if you don't want to and well, you don't even have to have one at all. Expert eagle eyes outside the cockpit combined with a big sky and low probability of collision are supposed to keep you safe.

Fly ins are super fun and I fly to them too, but they are pretty risky. You are sharing a small slice of air with God knows who, or what, or from where.
 
Jim Logajan said:
The list didn't seem that long for an airfield that popular with a non-traditional approach. Nor did the list entirely match that of the AOPA ASI:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/ntsb/searchResults.cfm?identifier=3U2&helicopter=BOTH
(Not sure if that will work if you aren't an AOPA member with a web account.)

ASI shows 14 accidents since 1993, with only 2 of those involving fatalities.

To get a proper perspective it may be worthwhile to query different airports in the AOPA airports directory and click on the "Accident Reports" for them (near the bottom of the airport's page under Air Safety Institute Resources.)
Click to expand...

Okay, I definitely jumped the gun on the accident list. Most of those incidents were just downright poor aviating that had little to do with conditions of that location. When I hear back country right away I feel like the stakes have been raised for me personally because I've never flown back country, nor have I done many soft or short field landings or take offs, nor do I have my PPL yet. I've got plenty of reasons to be apprehensive. That's no reason to question the judgement of this Dad who lost his kid. I just hope he did everything he could to insure his kid's safety because that will haunt him if he didn't. Deepest condolensces to him and his family.
 
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stratobee said:
..... I hope this doesn't kill the fly-in or the airfield (that's privately owned).
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Publically owned..... And it is a GREAT slice of paradise... Free camping next to a golf course smooth runway with hot showers, free fire wood, numerous camp sites, tie downs, WIFI...... For all who have never visited... It is something EVERY pilot should do........... at least once..:yes:
 
bbchien said:
YGBFSM! This is Johnson Creek, in the Frank Church Wilderness. It's out in no place. Eyes out. Be look'ng and be waiting and listening!
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Minor point of clarification, but Johnson Creek is not in the Frank Church Wilderness. Near the Wilderness, but not in.

Likely only important because airstrips in the Wilderness are a bit controversial, and large scale fly-ins would not be compatible with wilderness values.

(And it is not out in "no place", as it is about 10 miles from God's Country. ;-) )
 
N801BH said:
Publically owned..... And it is a GREAT slice of paradise... Free camping next to a golf course smooth runway with hot showers, free fire wood, numerous camp sites, tie downs, WIFI...... For all who have never visited... It is something EVERY pilot should do........... at least once..:yes:
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Isn't there something with part of the airport on private land from Cox Ranch on the South ends, or maybe Clement Ranch.

Or an easement? Memory fades.
 
Silvaire said:
Seeing that they were both landing at Johnson Creek I'm pretty sure that both of their heads were "outside" the airplane. Sounds like a classic high wing/low wing conflict in which case they just plain couldn't see each other. The question is why were they both in that spot because Johnson Creek is not a place where people are coming into the pattern from all different directions. Must have been a comm failure, maybe wrong freq or inadvertent wrong selection on audio panel so neither of them knew at all that the other was there.
Click to expand...

People come in from the north or south, and there's not much room for a busy traffic pattern there. Since the terrain is a threat, focusing on that and the runway could keep you from looking for traffic. And we all can agree we've never made an error in our position reports (or made lengthy ones with my personal favorite "any traffic in the area please advise").
 
JoseCuervo said:
Minor point of clarification, but Johnson Creek is not in the Frank Church Wilderness. Near the Wilderness, but not in.

Likely only important because airstrips in the Wilderness are a bit controversial, and large scale fly-ins would not be compatible with wilderness values.

(And it is not out in "no place", as it is about 10 miles from God's Country. ;-) )
Click to expand...

Shower bath hot springs is an awesome hike in the FC. I've flown over the FC many times, my engine always acts up and my gauges seem a little off when I'm in the area. I never had the testicular fortitude to land at any of the strips in the wilderness.
 
bbchien said:
YGBFSM! This is Johnson Creek, in the Frank Church Wilderness. It's out in no place. Eyes out. Be look'ng and be waiting and listening!
Click to expand...

You are very right on that. I fly to several remote isolated fields in the US and abroad that you would never think that someone else is landing at the same time. Two years ago coming in for landing for rwy 9 at TJMZ I got a warning from my trusty ATD-300 of someone landing at rwy 27 (the opposite end) at the same time. I decided to side step to the downwind. I finally saw the traffic after it landed. Nobody bothers to check the windsock because the only thing left is the pole and the ring. No doubt that you have to be on the look out at uncontrolled fields but eyesight has its limitation, specially with age.

José
 
PA-11 said:
People come in from the north or south, and there's not much room for a busy traffic pattern there. Since the terrain is a threat, focusing on that and the runway could keep you from looking for traffic. And we all can agree we've never made an error in our position reports (or made lengthy ones with my personal favorite "any traffic in the area please advise").
Click to expand...

That was my point, I doubt either of them had their head in the cockpit and if there had been communication they'd have known there was another aircraft on final so I'd think they both would have intently been looking for traffic. But it's also a known fact that these two types of aircraft could be on final for the same runway in positions that would make it impossible for either of them to see each other. It's happened before.
 
Silvaire said:
. The question is why were they both in that spot because Johnson Creek is not a place where people are coming into the pattern from all different directions. e.
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Johnson Creek is an easy place to have people enter the pattern from different locations. And the BIG conflict would be someone on "3 mile final" vs another plane on left downwind for landing to the south.

As per the other thread, we know the plane on final has the right of way to interrupt the established pattern.


Never mind, that a 3 mile final is flown for the first 2.5 miles out of sight of the airport, and likely out of communication.
 
Not going to click. Already know what crumpled beer cans look like. Sigh.
 
Does anyone have an updated link to this video?
 
"It is difficult to imagine a more stupid or dangerous method of making decisions than by placing them in the hands of people who have nothing to lose by being wrong."

Kind of like pi**y posts?? :eek:
 
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