Mid Air at Johnson Creek

N801BH said:
Word on the street is one was a Tri pacer and the other one was a PA 28R arrow...
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That makes a lot more sense with what I see in the photo. The white airplane looks like a high wing, likely the Tri-Pacer, but the other blue plane looks a lot more like the belly of a PA28 than a Baron.
 
No ADS-B coverage in the area that may have help on avoiding the mid-air.

José
 
Piloto said:
No ADS-B coverage in the area that may have help on avoiding the mid-air.

José
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When I'm landing, I'm not looking at my ADS-B display. Unless there was some sort of alarm hooked up to an ADS-B receiver, ADS-B wouldn't have made any difference.

The real question is: "How did two planes land simultaneously during a major fly-in?" Was there a temporary tower?
 
Jay Honeck said:
When I'm landing, I'm not looking at my ADS-B display. Unless there was some sort of alarm hooked up to an ADS-B receiver, ADS-B wouldn't have made any difference.

The real question is: "How did two planes land simultaneously during a major fly-in?" Was there a temporary tower?
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No Tower.. it is REALLY kool place to go but on busy weekends it gets DAMN crazy...


Live web cam for the place...

http://www.zeitcam.com/webcam/johnsoncreek/currentimage
 
Jay Honeck said:
Neat webcam. Apparently it's facing away from where the accident occurred, however, since it is not apparent when you watch the timelapse video from this morning.
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Yup... cam is at mid field and pointed south.. The opposite direction from the crash..
 
TexasPilot71 said:
Poor dad. So sad. I simply could not imagine his anguish. May his son RIP.
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It truly is every parent's worst nightmare. I used to be haunted by this very scenario, when my kids were little. I believe it made me a better pilot, but it sure didn't help my digestion, worrying about it.
 
This is so sad to hear. Going to a fly-in with a 2yr old into a congested mountainous airport seems a bit crazy to me. It's sad to say but this fly-in may end up being a memorial fly in for the subsequent years. mY thoughts are with all the families involved.
 
If you're worried about a 2 year old, and not worried about the rest of your pax equally...
 
denverpilot said:
If you're worried about a 2 year old, and not worried about the rest of your pax equally...
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You win the award for the dumbest, most ignorant response to an internet post ever. Nobody ever said they wouldn't be worried about all pax equally. You made a dumb assumption.
 
Addicted2climbing said:
This is so sad to hear. Going to a fly-in with a 2yr old into a congested mountainous airport seems a bit crazy to me.
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My response was in reference to this, of course. I thought it odd that someone contemplating mountain flying to a backcountry strip would care the age of the pax.

ALL pax are worth not flying to the absolute best of your ability, doesn't matter if they're tiny or big. Hell, YOU are worth it, even.

Not meant to pick on anyone, just saying to break that chain of evaluating which pax you have on board as part of the mental process of how much risk you'll take, and realize that mountain ops in relatively small valleys to grass strips add a measure of risk for all on board.

Age simply doesn't matter. Get it out of your brain.
 
Based on your FIM track record to date, maybe you should simply refrain from any topic involving kids.

denverpilot said:
My response was in reference to this, of course. I thought it odd that someone contemplating mountain flying to a backcountry strip would care the age of the pax.

ALL pax are worth not flying to the absolute best of your ability, doesn't matter if they're tiny or big. Hell, YOU are worth it, even.

Not meant to pick on anyone, just saying to break that chain of evaluating which pax you have on board as part of the mental process of how much risk you'll take, and realize that mountain ops in relatively small valleys to grass strips add a measure of risk for all on board.

Age simply doesn't matter. Get it out of your brain.
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Kittens!

Need more kittens.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Nah, I was thinking bacon would be more effective.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Kittens with bacon.

Maybe some maple syrup? And, hot chicks with small bikinis.
 
denverpilot said:
My response was in reference to this, of course. I thought it odd that someone contemplating mountain flying to a backcountry strip would care the age of the pax.
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DenverPilot, I must apologize to you. I was using an iPad all called Tapatalk to respond and I'm finding that it sometimes gets posts out of order, or in this case, didn't even display Addicted's post. So it appeared your post was in response to mine or Jay's, which it obviously wasn't. I understand and appreciate your point and I think it's very relevant. Again my apologies to you and the other posters here.
 
Addicted2climbing said:
This is so sad to hear. Going to a fly-in with a 2yr old into a congested mountainous airport seems a bit crazy to me. It's sad to say but this fly-in may end up being a memorial fly in for the subsequent years. mY thoughts are with all the families involved.
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For many flying is a family affair
 
Accidents like this hopefully help reinforce a need to be outside the airplane when operating in congested areas. If anything, flying with a CFI and doing ground reference maneuvers could be a way to get your head back outside.
 
So very sad to hear about that boy. Breaks my heart when little kids are involved.

I flew into last years Backcountry Fly-In with my Commander. I was the only twin in attendance, but there had been a Baron in attendance in earlier years. But as mentioned, from the photos it doesn't seem like that's a Baron. Anyway, it's a beautiful spot in the world and a great fly-in, but it does get crazy busy at times. Mainly taildraggers and pilots with varying experience. I hope this doesn't kill the fly-in or the airfield (that's privately owned).
 
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TexasPilot71 said:
DenverPilot, I must apologize to you. I was using an iPad all called Tapatalk to respond and I'm finding that it sometimes gets posts out of order, or in this case, didn't even display Addicted's post. So it appeared your post was in response to mine or Jay's, which it obviously wasn't. I understand and appreciate your point and I think it's very relevant. Again my apologies to you and the other posters here.
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I was wondering if I should spend the few bucks for Tapatalk, maybe I will hold off.
 
I only use tapatalk for posting pictures - I haven't spent the time using it though and I'm sure I'd like it more if I have it the chance.
 
I didn't even ask the HARD question, trying to be "respectful".

Was the two year old in a car seat properly attached to the aircraft, or sitting in someone's lap?

If the latter, and the pilot didn't explain that could kill the kid, well... I got no respect for that. Mountain strip or not.

Some people do it and accept the risk. I'm not a fan of Nanny Laws about it. So I'll leave it alone from here on out.

But when I read accident reports where the adults are injured and the kid died, it usually isn't much of a stretch to know what's coming in the final NTSB report in a year or so. 'Nough said.
 
Piloto said:
No ADS-B coverage in the area that may have help on avoiding the mid-air.

José
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YGBFSM! This is Johnson Creek, in the Frank Church Wilderness. It's out in no place. Eyes out. Be look'ng and be waiting and listening!
 
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PA-11 said:
Accidents like this hopefully help reinforce a need to be outside the airplane when operating in congested areas. If anything, flying with a CFI and doing ground reference maneuvers could be a way to get your head back outside.
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Seeing that they were both landing at Johnson Creek I'm pretty sure that both of their heads were "outside" the airplane. Sounds like a classic high wing/low wing conflict in which case they just plain couldn't see each other. The question is why were they both in that spot because Johnson Creek is not a place where people are coming into the pattern from all different directions. Must have been a comm failure, maybe wrong freq or inadvertent wrong selection on audio panel so neither of them knew at all that the other was there.
 
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