Mexico Safety...

I wouldn't take a single incident as a reason not to travel.

Mexican gang and cartel violence happens everywhere. It's cool, just get used to it. We are thousands of miles from Mexico, but the gangs are here in North Carolina.

Its not mentioned in this article (you can guess why not), but these guys were Los Surenos "Sur 13" gang members. Tried to kill a rival gang member and his family, ended up killing an innocent mom+dad because they got the wrong house. Went in with ski masks and shot the couple 23 times in front of their 3 year old son.

http://www.wral.com/-opening-statements-begin-in-garner-double-murder-trial/14838979/
 
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Does anyone know if this occurred in a "safe" part of Mexico?

I like flying to Mexico, but man, stuff like this makes me question if it's a good idea. Especially since arriving via GA (even piston) sort of screams "somewhat wealthy American"....

It did not occur in a safe part. It occurred in an ugly, industrial town known for its violence. I have cleared customs in that town several times. Not anywhere you would want to go and visit, but really nice airport staff and it's at a convenient location for my final leg into the interior of the country.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ico-a-city-of-violence-abandoned-to-the-trees
 
:yeahthat: ya, that...
Disheartening, but not representative.
Just imagine what a traveler to the US sees if they search Google News for "shot dead in usa". Mexico doesn't have a lock on deadly violence. Just take a walk through Detroit, Compton, Oakland, or a dozen other US cities at night.
 
:yeahthat: ya, that...
Disheartening, but not representative.
Just imagine what a traveler to the US sees if they search Google News for "shot dead in usa". Mexico doesn't have a lock on deadly violence. Just take a walk through Detroit, Compton, Oakland, or a dozen other US cities at night.

But here in the USA, most of us know where to go and not to go and how not to make yourself a target in our big cities. As the OP stated, just flying into Mexico by GA as a gringo makes you a potential target automatically.
 
Shy of some major out of the way place, I would never, ever fly GA into Mexico, ism also wouldn't drive my Vette down there or any newer or nicer car, wear a fancy watch, suit, etc, just look lower income, be modest, use your head and keep it on a swivel.

Never had a problem camping out at the beach down there.
 
Years ago I did a long motorcycle sojourn in Mexico. Same verbiage was in the media, "Mexico is dangerous! They hate Americans! Everyone in my lab thought I was going to disappear, only to be found when some plucky Anthropologists found a tribe of Aboriginals wearing pieces of my motorcycle in their noses.

Instead I had the trip of my life. Mexico is awesome, the people friendly, the land varied and beautiful, and the cost laughably low.

Look up Adventure Rider some time and see where folks go. I've seen people ride Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran. I've read the accounts of guys going through places like El Salvador and Venezuala. If all you want is to be safe and comfortable then you can stay home, watch your tube and eat potato chips out of the bag.
 
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Seriously, you're lecturing a bunch of people that fly airplanes about living scared??
 
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But here in the USA, most of us know where to go and not to go and how not to make yourself a target in our big cities.

Absolutely true. The solution to that is to educate yourself as to where to go in Mexico, not to write off the country completely. Unless you don't want to go, then just don't go. No need to make excuses.

And, frankly, the same basic rules apply. Go to the middle class areas instead of the poorer areas and your odds are better in both countries.

As the OP stated, just flying into Mexico by GA as a gringo makes you a potential target automatically.

100% not true.

Any airport you're likely to use in Mexico have *far* better security than most airports in the US. Hell, the airport nearest where I stay has been shut down for three years and *still* has a military presence. And probably a majority of the Mexican owned planes here are N-numbered, so the potential criminals can't even tell by the registration.

You want to paint a target on your back, go out and get blindingly drunk while wearing shorts and laughingly yelling "donde esta los banos". That will be far more effective than flying into the country.
 
Instead I had the trip of my life. Mexico is awesome, the people friendly, the land varied and beautiful, and the cost laughably low

+1

If people don't want to visit Mexico, don't visit Mexico. But my experience has been the above. Do a little bit of homework, learn a few words of spanish, don't walk in with a chip on your shoulder and it's an absolutely wonderful place.

Just had lunch at a beautiful ex-hacienda in the countryside near my town. Good friends, good food, lovely atmosphere. Life is good.
 
flying into Mexico by GA as a gringo makes you a potential target automatically.

We've been well received. Here's a Young Eagles event that we did a couple weeks ago...

 
I never had any problems in Mexico. Then again, I've never had any problems in any foreign country I've visited. Use common sense and don't make an ass of yourself and you'll be all right pretty much anywhere.

Rich
 
I was hesitant to post in this thread. But - maybe it'll help, hope it doesn't hurt.

Mexico, like the US is a land of differences. It's hard if not impossible to judge the whole country, as there are good and not so good, and downright bad parts. Anyone seeing Orlando, and then going to downtown Detroit would be amazed it's the same country.

I grew up in SoCal, and was going in and out of the Mexico around the border towns since I was a kid with the parents. The border towns are resilient, and the most liberal culturally because of the US influence. Once you get past the border towns, the interior of Mexico has a lot of different faces, and significant cultural themes. My GF who went with me to Cancun, and down the Yucatan was kind of surprised to find native Mexican 'indians' or indigenous people who rarely see white folk. Then, there are the Castillian/Spaniard breed from the central mountain areas, and all the Mestizas in between.

Some states are better to stay out of, like for me it was Vera Cruz. Quite a bit of unrest there for many years. Tamaulipas is another one that's best left alone, as is Oaxaca unless you are moving fast, or obviously a poor Norte slumming along. Pretty much anywhere there is a lot of travelers you are going to be ok. Border areas, The Yucatan, most large cities like DF and of course the coastal tourist areas. They rely on tourist income, so there's rarely a problem.

I stopped going to Mexico about 10 years ago. It's gotten worse for US citizens, and without pointing too much fault not all of it is due to their culture. There are thriving ex-pat communities, the best known is near lake Chapala. I think that most US citizens that wind up getting in trouble in Mexico were prolly looking at some kind of trouble anywhere, including the US.

Sadly, there is a thriving and I think growing economy in kidnapping for ransom. This case isn't going to make things better, and likely will make it worse. The family paid up, and the victims were killed, and no one has been caught giving rise to a successful action all the way around for the kidnappers. I used to drive ratty cars into Mexico, and would never drive a real nice car there. Nor would I go if I were wealthy unless I had a well trusted security detail, including guns, which is very hard to do in Mexico.

Crime stats generally favor the US over Mexico, particularly for violent crimes. However, there is a caveat that many of the violent crimes in Mexico are between drug dealers, and their protection details. I'm pretty sure if you stay in major cities, or areas where there are a lot of US people, crime potential is very low, and crimes in tourist areas are usually solved, and offenders punished to promote safe tourism.

It's a beautiful place. They have a huge grand canyon of their own, beaches, reefs, thriving night life, but they are still a 3rd world country with all that entails.
 
It did not occur in a safe part. It occurred in an ugly, industrial town known for its violence. I have cleared customs in that town several times. Not anywhere you would want to go and visit, but really nice airport staff and it's at a convenient location for my final leg into the interior of the country.



http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ico-a-city-of-violence-abandoned-to-the-trees


Wow, sounds like this place was worse than Juarez! It's a wonder anyone would choose to live there.


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Wow, sounds like this place was worse than Juarez! It's a wonder anyone would choose to live there.

Yup, your question implies the answer. No one chooses to live in places like that in any meaningful connotation of the word "chooses". They live there because they don't have better options. The people who have left are the ones that had real choices. The ones that remain are in tough situations.
 
My experience is travel to over 50 countries. I've been to several different places in the interior of Mexico. I've driven a pickup from Texas to Honduras. I don't speak a word of Spanish.

Based on that experience, my advice is the following:
1. Quit watching Fox News
2. Use common sense and dont' make an ass of yourself. (Someone else might have mentioned this one.)
3. Go to Mexico and have a great time.
 
Yup, your question implies the answer. No one chooses to live in places like that in any meaningful connotation of the word "chooses". They live there because they don't have better options. The people who have left are the ones that had real choices. The ones that remain are in tough situations.


The people in the originally mentioned article seemed to have the means to live wherever they wanted though.... ?


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The people in the originally mentioned article seemed to have the means to live wherever they wanted though.... ?

At a minimum their family seemed well off, and family matters a lot in Mexico.

So, I dunno. Maybe they were indeed well off, but most of the wealth was in property they couldn't afford to abandon, also not uncommon in Mexico.

Maybe what I said only applies to 90% instead of 100% of the people in Tampico.

Hard to say, I couldn't google up anything about the family to find out.
 
I have walked the streets in Algeria with a real sweet local Berber girl and had no issues though we did get a few stares. When I was flying in and out of Santa Cruz Bolivia as a flight mechanic, I would leave the safe confines of the hotel bar where my compadres would not stray from and venture out to the local bars and have a couple of cold beers and even chat a little with the locals. When I was in South Korea while in the Army, I visited areas of the country that few fellow servicemen went and had no issues. When my Chinese wife took me to China a couple of times, I would wander out on my own, pop into a local establishment and enjoy the local scene a little and this was not only in Beijing or other big cities that see a lot of foreigners but in more remote areas as well. I have little inhibition in this regards. However, I do view travelling south of the border a little differently and I will admit possibly due to a few misconceptions. Personally, the only times I have ever had trouble with the locals were in certain neighborhoods in a couple of big US cities. So make all the assumptions about me and others who might be a bit leery of Mexico. I’m sure that some of you might have experiences that far exceed mine but I doubt if that many of you do.
 
Some guy who lives in Mexico City, and I don't really know him, but someone who I do know gave him my name, called me up a couple yeas ago and asked me if I thought that his two daughters and their husbands would be safe in Aspen Colorado on a skiing trip. I thought that was interesting.
 
I had a textile manufacturer client up until 2006, and it was owned by a Mexican textile company. Every quarter the owners would come up to the US to visit the business, and we would go out to dinner.

On one trip, I told them about a family vacation that we took around 1976 where we went from Matamoros to Monterrey to Chihuahua to Juarez - basically the northern part of the country.

I asked them what they thought of that trip, and they said that they would NEVER take that trip today (in 2006), saying that it was far too dangerous of a region with the drug cartels, banditos, and corruption in the military and policia.
 
I had a textile manufacturer client up until 2006, and it was owned by a Mexican textile company. Every quarter the owners would come up to the US to visit the business, and we would go out to dinner.

On one trip, I told them about a family vacation that we took around 1976 where we went from Matamoros to Monterrey to Chihuahua to Juarez - basically the northern part of the country.

I asked them what they thought of that trip, and they said that they would NEVER take that trip today (in 2006), saying that it was far too dangerous of a region with the drug cartels, banditos, and corruption in the military and policia.


So, what's the best way to separate the good areas from the bad? State dept website?

I had a business associate in Monterrey. A previous company he worked for received a phone call one day going something like this:

"Hello, this is Juan from xxx drug cartel (maybe Los Zetas, can't remember). If you do not wire $20,000 to this account, we will shoot the next person that walks out of your plant. You have 1 hour."

They paid, but the threat was not a bluff!

As a gringo, what's he best way to determine where is safe and where is not? I'm traveling with wife and 6-year old daughter. My biggest fear is targeted kidnapping based on the illusion that we're "rich Americans" simply because we have an aircraft.

I've flown to Cabo and La Paz in the past, and love it, especially La Paz. La Paz seemed (and is) very safe. My wife left 3 brand new iPads in the rental car. I called the company after we had returned the car, and they drove them out to the airport for us!) I wouldn't mind exploring other areas as well, but don't want to put the family in danger.

Another associate in Guadalajara once said to me "have you seen that movie 'Man on Fire'? It portrays Mexico City as very violent. Trust me, it's exactly like that. Be careful."

Yikes!


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I gave you three specific states to steer clear of. Vera Cruz, Tamaulipas, and Oaxaca. Beyond that, it's city by city. Generally speaking, if you go where Norte Americanos go, you'll be less likely to be bothered. The Yucatan, Baja CA, Guanajato is prolly ok. Acapulco, Mazatlan, Ixtapa, and PV are also prolly ok, as they are swarming with Americans in the fall and winter. Other places, it's case by case.
 
I spent a week in Oaxaca. Bike fell down in a rain storm, had to sell it. Great place, at least 20 years ago. Could have changed I suppose.
 
So, what's the best way to separate the good areas from the bad? State dept website?

Yes. That's an excellent starting point. It tends to be a little overly paranoid, so if they don't have a warning about someplace then it's fine.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/mexico-travel-warning.html

I had a business associate in Monterrey. A previous company he worked for received a phone call one day going something like this:

"Hello, this is Juan from xxx drug cartel (maybe Los Zetas, can't remember). If you do not wire $20,000 to this account, we will shoot the next person that walks out of your plant. You have 1 hour."

Yeah, Monterrey was super scary for a while and is much better now. Even now it's still on the edge of what normal travelers might want to visit.

I've flown to Cabo and La Paz in the past, and love it, especially La Paz. La Paz seemed (and is) very safe. My wife left 3 brand new iPads in the rental car. I called the company after we had returned the car, and they drove them out to the airport for us!) I wouldn't mind exploring other areas as well, but don't want to put the family in danger.

Yeah, I have a couple friends in La Paz that speak highly of it. Not a beach guy myself, so haven't been there.

Another associate in Guadalajara once said to me "have you seen that movie 'Man on Fire'? It portrays Mexico City as very violent. Trust me, it's exactly like that. Be careful."

Yikes!

Mexico City itself is fine. But! Nearby areas aren't secure. He was probably speaking of the metropolitan area at large, which would be like not going to St. Louis because East St. Louis was the murder capital of the US recently (and, in fact, only had a lower murder rate than one city in Mexico that year) So do your homework on Mexico City, but don't write it off completely. It does have a lot worth seeing.
 
I spent a week in Oaxaca. Bike fell down in a rain storm, had to sell it. Great place, at least 20 years ago. Could have changed I suppose.

It's still fine. No state department warnings and I have personal experience in the state as recently as February. Not sure what he was talking about there...
 
Substitute Detroit for Mexico and answer the question.

I don't think Detroit is any different than Mexico. There are some safe areas and some that aren't so much. The company I fly for ventures into some off the path areas, to say the least. I've overnighted in Leon, my safety never crossed my mind. I've been to Saltillo, Toluca, San Lois Potosi, none of them seemed to be terrible places.
 
Detroit doesn't have kidnap and ransom issues though. Mugging, sure, but kidnapping and random killing. Probably not so much.


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Mugging, sure, but kidnapping and random killing. Probably not so much.

Murder rate in Detroit recently was three times the murder rate in Mexico. 54/100K in Detroit versus 15/100K in Mexico.
 
I don't think Detroit is any different than Mexico. There are some safe areas and some that aren't so much. The company I fly for ventures into some off the path areas, to say the least. I've overnighted in Leon, my safety never crossed my mind. I've been to Saltillo, Toluca, San Lois Potosi, none of them seemed to be terrible places.

That's the point. There's good and bad in both places. Learn where the bad is and stay out of there.
 

Yeah, that's about right. The consensus in Mexico is that the murder rate is a reasonably accurate number but everything else is harder to get a grip on. Pessimism about the police's ability to track down criminals leads to property crimes being especially difficult to nail down as they often go unreported even before the kinds of issues talked about in your article start to kick in.
 
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