Mental Health Advice

ProjectInfinity1

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Hey gents, This is my first post but I've been reading the board for awhile now. I'll get straight to the point, I'm a 17 year old guy that's looking to get my private pilot certification with a class 3 medical under the new reforms. I'd only need to get it once before I'm good (short the four year physicals but I'm fine in that regard). However, I have been diagnosed with ADHD (primarily inattentive) I'm on the autism spectrum with what use to be aspburgers, OCD, social anxiety, and now what we originally thought was just depression, has morphed into what my phycatrist said (off the record) is bipolar otherwise not specified. And while I was prescribed lithium to test how I react to it, I know accepting it is a nonstarter for the FAA. And to be honest I do have mood swings but I've lived through it for the past 4 years since simptoms started and I've been fine. So my question being, particularly for Doctor Brucie is their any change for a class 3 SI exception just for a PPL? Either way I thank you for your time and happy holidays!


Additional physical heath issues,
Several asthma (Get xolair shots every two weeks (requires FAA SI) Been on more than 60 MG Predizone a few times (no more than two weeks)
Slow processing speed bottom 35% , (but high IQ :p)
Had Febrile Seizures all stopped before age 5 except for one relapse at age 7 with fever of 104 triggering it.
 
Hopefully DocB has some better information but you're going to have a tough road to issuance. If it's even possible it's going to take a complete PPP workup which will run several thousand of dollars for the tests that a psychologist can perform PLUS you're going to need to have enough visits to a board certified psychiatrist (MD) for him to evaluate you. With processing deficits, they're likely to also require COGSCREEN. DocB is the one of the authors of the SSRI protocol SI. So he has direct knowledge for you.
 
Yeesh. ProjectInfinity1: Five Federal Air surgeons have vowed never to certify a bipolar. It is the kiss of death for certification because if correctly diagnosed, it doesn't "go away", it always recurs.

I am working with a late 50 something fellow from the piedmont who I think was wrongly accused by a "Doctor Bipolar (all his patients were bipolar, go figure)" but it is a long haul and he's been two years, multiple psychiatry and psychology exams (all HIMS level) and he still isn't ready. I think he's got $15,000 into this. And this fellow has a 10 year successful life test behind him, with no meds and GREAT observations along the way by qualified practitioners.

Never mind everything else that would come out in the wash.....


Dr. Bruce
 
I see, I'm in the north eastern quadrant but I don't know if my federal flight surgeon is one of those five doctor. Rationally, though I understand it's for safety but it leaves me questioning why I can legally buy as many firearms as one could ever dream of with no treatment, that arguably could be many times more destructive then a single engine prop, yet I am unquestionably barred from flight if I'd happen to be bipolar, and while like I said it's the law of the land, It seems borderline discriminatory that there is NO route for a such a contingency. Maybe it's just me, what do you guys think?
 
I see, I'm in the north eastern quadrant but I don't know if my federal flight surgeon is one of those five doctor. Rationally, though I understand it's for safety but it leaves me questioning why I can legally buy as many firearms as one could ever dream of with no treatment, that arguably could be many times more destructive then a single engine prop, yet I am unquestionably barred from flight if I'd happen to be bipolar, and while like I said it's the law of the land, It seems borderline discriminatory that there is NO route for a such a contingency. Maybe it's just me, what do you guys think?

There's a big difference between exercising a constitutionally protected right, and getting a FAA medical from the fine folks in OKC.
 
There's a big difference between exercising a constitutionally protected right, and getting a FAA medical from the fine folks in OKC.
Indeed but it's an analogy to a bigger picture, both can be destructive if used inappropriately, however it's the perspective if it's a right or a privilege that is different, and while I do think it is and should remain a privilege to be experienced (yet easily taken away). I don't know if it's a fair shake if one has lost even before the has race begun.
 
I see, I'm in the north eastern quadrant but I don't know if my federal flight surgeon is one of those five doctor. Rationally, though I understand it's for safety but it leaves me questioning why I can legally buy as many firearms as one could ever dream of with no treatment, that arguably could be many times more destructive then a single engine prop, yet I am unquestionably barred from flight if I'd happen to be bipolar, and while like I said it's the law of the land, It seems borderline discriminatory that there is NO route for a such a contingency. Maybe it's just me, what do you guys think?

Since you asked, firearms isn't a good comparison because as one person already replied, it's a Constitutionally protected right, and even if it weren't, it's how people protect themselves. You don't need to be a pilot to protect yourself, so apples and oranges.

But other than that, you are absolutely right; it's not fair. But the world doesn't operate according to truth, logic and fairness. The world operates on two things: 1) what do most people want to do and 2) what impression, true or not, do most people have about the thing.

Example. The economic cost to the U.S. annually of heroin addiction has been estimated (and updated to 2015 dollars) to be about $33 billion. About half of this is medical cost. The annual medical costs of obesity to which soda pop is strongly linked is about $260 billion. Yet, because most people want to drink soda, and only a small percent of people want to abuse heroin, plus most people's impression of soda is that it's harmless, and most people's impression of heroin is that it's deadly, despite soda being very much more harmful to the country in total than heroin, it is heroin that is vilified, regulated, outlawed, and fought against, while soda can be purchased legally in unlimited quantities by any minor. This despite soda (and other legal sugar) costing the nation SIXTEEN TIMES the medical dollars than does heroin.

You might intuitively say, well that's because heroin is illegal and soda is legal, therefore way more people get diabetes and this makes the cost so high. And you would be wrong. If we made heroin legal, we would very likely have the same or fewer heroin addicts, OD deaths, etc., and if we made soda illegal, there would immediately arise a huge black market for the product. This is because the desire for heroin or soda is inherent to the product itself, not to its legal status. People will either desire it or not, and its legal status has very little to do with it. This fact was pretty much nailed by our experiment with alcohol prohibition.

So on an individual basis, heroin will kill you fast and horribly, and soda will kill you more slowly but just as horribly. But on a society-wide basis, the reality is that soda is doing far more total damage.

Yet the legal approach and mass perceptions are completely upside down. The way society works is not rational. It's based on aggregate human desires and false beliefs which become translated into law and policy. Things that the majority want to do every day, like drive cars and drink soda, are tolerated, while things only a minority want to do, like abuse heroin or fly airplanes, are viewed suspiciously and are highly regulated. It matters not at all the REAL risks involved. Look at the death and damage caused by automobile accidents. Compared to that, the risk to society of a GA pilot is almost non-existent. Risk to himself and his passengers is higher, and the risk of a commercial pilot to many passengers is also higher, but that is countered by the greater safety of large jet craft and multiple crew. The risk to the general public of a GA craft is thousands or millions of times smaller than the risk of being hurt by someone else's automobile, simply because there is so very much ground the odds of a small plane falling on you are minute but in a car you whiz within feet of hundreds of other cars all the time. yet the bureaucratic hoops one must jump to pilot are way more strict than getting a driver's license.

Why is this so? Because most people want to drive cars. And very few want to pilot airplanes. Therefore high levels of automobile risk is acceptable to the masses, while virtually no amount of aircraft risk is acceptable, simply because, they do not themselves want to pilot. And the second factor, the masses imagine themselves safe in their automobile because they have a history of driving every day without incident. So most people have a false sense of security about cars. But because flying planes is unfamiliar and the news sensationalizes every single incident, the general masses falsely believe airplanes are far more dangerous than they really are.

That's how the world works. Based on majority beliefs (whether true or not) and based on majority desires, we end up with what you are correctly sensing is not quite right. But remember, the average IQ of these majorities of which I speak is 100. Get used to it. You'll feel this dissonance your whole life.

Having said all that, none of it applies to your personal risk. The rules are written to address a perception of risk to society. The reality is that risk is low. But the risk to you, in a plane, is much higher. I've heard that the average risk of piloting single engine GA is equivalent to riding a motorcycle. I don't know how accurate that is, but it's within acceptable limits to most of us, for the benefit we get to fly. However that risk varies a great deal. You lower it significantly by not flying in weather. By being anal about fuel. By not flying night over water, etc.

And by not flying if you suffer from conditions that compromise your performance. Bi-polar would do that. Anxiety disorders too. If these conditions are confirmed (and they are telling you it will cost a lot of $$$ to try to disprove them) then you really are better off not piloting. Yes the rules are unfair and illogical because they're written to protect the general public. But your personal decision to protect yourself doesn't have to have anything to do with the FAA and its rules. It is always down to the individual anyway to self certify before every flight, and to de-certify ourselves if we recognize something that will compromise our safety. I can't tell you what you should do but I can tell you what I would do if I were in your situation: I'd stand down and make it MY decision, for my own safety, rather than spend a ton of money only to be denied by the FAA.

What ever you decide, best of luck.
 
Indeed but it's an analogy to a bigger picture, both can be destructive if used inappropriately, however it's the perspective if it's a right or a privilege that is different, and while I do think it is and should remain a privilege to be experienced (yet easily taken away). I don't know if it's a fair shake if one has lost even before the has race begun.

That's life bro

If you have a kid, he's short, fat and has slow reaction times, he's never going to play in the NBA, doesn't matter how bad he wants it, sadly folks teach their offspring that they can be anything they want to be, BS, life's not fair.
 
Hey gents, This is my first post but I've been reading the board for awhile now. I'll get straight to the point, I'm a 17 year old guy that's looking to get my private pilot certification with a class 3 medical under the new reforms. I'd only need to get it once before I'm good (short the four year physicals but I'm fine in that regard). However, I have been diagnosed with ADHD (primarily inattentive) I'm on the autism spectrum with what use to be aspburgers, OCD, social anxiety, and now what we originally thought was just depression, has morphed into what my phycatrist said (off the record) is bipolar otherwise not specified. And while I was prescribed lithium to test how I react to it, I know accepting it is a nonstarter for the FAA. And to be honest I do have mood swings but I've lived through it for the past 4 years since simptoms started and I've been fine. So my question being, particularly for Doctor Brucie is their any change for a class 3 SI exception just for a PPL? Either way I thank you for your time and happy holidays!


Additional physical heath issues,
Several asthma (Get xolair shots every two weeks (requires FAA SI) Been on more than 60 MG Predizone a few times (no more than two weeks)
Slow processing speed bottom 35% , (but high IQ :p)
Had Febrile Seizures all stopped before age 5 except for one relapse at age 7 with fever of 104 triggering it.

I'm not a doctor, much less an AME. My hunch, however (which is buttressed by Dr. Bruce's post) is that the likelihood of FAA issuing you a medical with your combination of diagnoses (especially any flavor of Bipolar Disorder) is close to zero. :(

That may or may not be fair to you personally. Mental health issues exist on a continuum in terms of severity, as do the coping abilities of people who have those conditions. The severity of your condition and the skills you have developed and continue to develop in managing and developing adaptations to those conditions may make you able, in a practical sense, to pilot an aircraft. Or maybe not. No one here knows; and because of the rather unique nature of Bipolar Disorder, you may or may not know, either.

Today, you seem like a perfectly rational young man with good awareness and acceptance of your conditions and good coping skills. Today, you could probably pilot an aircraft (assuming that you had the training, of course). But how about a few months from now? Will you still be fit to fly? And more to the point, will you know whether or not you're fit to fly?

That's the unique problem with Bipolar and the reason why, to my knowledge, the FAA has never knowingly certified anyone suffering from Bipolar. It's a cyclical disorder. When you're at the extremes of your cycle, you may or may not possess adequate self-awareness, reasoning, and will to evaluate your fitness to fly and to self-ground if necessary. The vast majority of sufferers will not.

Maybe you will. Your condition may be mild enough and your coping skills good enough that the answer could very well be yes. But that would also make you more than a bit unusual among people who suffer from bipolar, which is why although it may not necessarily be fair to you personally, it's a no-go as far as getting an FAA medical is concerned. FAA can't set policy based on the outliers; and a person with Bipolar Disorder who is able to evaluate his or her fitness to fly while at either extreme of their cycle would be an outlier.

Since you're already and obviously pretty well-informed about FAA medical requirements, I suspect that as soon as the reality that getting a medical is going to be virtually impossible for you sinks in, you're likely to consider Sport Pilot, gliders, or ultralights as alternative ways to get into the air. The problem is that legality of those options aside, the one thing that they all have in common is that they can all kill you just as dead as flying flying a conventionally certificated, powered aircraft can.

I'm more than old enough to be your dad, and if you were my son, I know that I would want to help you achieve your dreams. But even more than that, I would want to keep you alive. So if I were your dad, I would advise you to have a very frank discussion about flying with a psychiatrist or psychologist (preferably both, actually) who has been treating you long enough to have seen you go through your entire cycle a few times before making a decision to get into the air by any means.

Rich
 
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Happy New Year Everybody. I appreciate everyone who replied giving their perspectives on my issue at hand. Going forward though, I would very much still want to see how far the rabbit hole goes, I contacted Doctor Brucie and if he has time I'm going to seek some more advice possibly even sending in some documents reguarding previous testing that was done. The bipolar however is just the elephant in the room. Do I think I fit the symptoms of bipolar II? Yes. The only reason my doctor refused to officially diagnose it was my cycles were over periods of hours (not days) after taking abilify for OCD. Worst comes to worst, I could make an appeal to my Regional Flight Surgeon (however we all know that's extraordinarily unlikely.) Nonetheless, I wish you gentlemen safe flights, clear skies, and a strong tailwind and I'll keep you posted. Have a wonderful day!
 
The only risk of consultation is you might waste some money. Once you submit to FAA, you risk a denial, which kills any hope of Sport Pilot. But Doc Bruce will not put you in that position.
 
Happy New Year Everybody. I appreciate everyone who replied giving their perspectives on my issue at hand. Going forward though, I would very much still want to see how far the rabbit hole goes, I contacted Doctor Brucie and if he has time I'm going to seek some more advice possibly even sending in some documents reguarding previous testing that was done. The bipolar however is just the elephant in the room. Do I think I fit the symptoms of bipolar II? Yes. The only reason my doctor refused to officially diagnose it was my cycles were over periods of hours (not days) after taking abilify for OCD. Worst comes to worst, I could make an appeal to my Regional Flight Surgeon (however we all know that's extraordinarily unlikely.) Nonetheless, I wish you gentlemen safe flights, clear skies, and a strong tailwind and I'll keep you posted. Have a wonderful day!

You do know that there are ladies on this board, as well, don't you? They're allowing them to fly these days... :hairraise: :lol:

Rich
 
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