MEL detecting dead engine in IMC

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Frank Natoli

Filing Flight Plan
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Frank Natoli
In visual flight conditions, the sure sign of a dead or dying engine is a yaw into the dead or dying engine. One uses the rudder to stop the yaw.
But what about IMC? One cannot see the horizon, so the asymmetric thrust yaw is observed on the heading indicator, correct? But normally, when one finds oneself slightly off heading, one banks [not yaws] to recover the heading.
How to know in IMC to use rudder not ailerons to counter asymmetric thrust?
I can't find any resource, including AFH, that discusses this point.
 
Do you mean “other than the ball”?
 
No, you'll see it on the ball on the Turn Coordinator/Turn-and-Slip. Step on the ball and it will inform you which engine is dead unless you haven't detected it on the engine instruments.

BTW, the Turn Coordinator is one of the most important for IFR flying and often not given the importance it deserves. It's the one instrument that can keep you level when all others have failed or you get confusing or conflicting info from other sources.
 
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stratobee said:
No, you'll see it on the ball on the Turn Coordinator/Turn-and-Slip. Step on the ball and it will inform you which engine is dead unless you haven't detected it on the engine instruments.

BTW, the Turn Coordinator is one of the most important, if not the most important instrument, for IFR flying and often not given the importance it should.
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So if you see the heading indicator steadily turning, without any control input from you, AND the ball is out [toward the live or dead engine?], then step on the ball until the heading change stops? And then conclude dead foot, dead engine?
 
Level the wings with aileron, feet off the rudder. Then see which way you are yawing/look at the ball.
 
Frank Natoli said:
But normally, when one finds oneself slightly off heading, one banks [not yaws] to recover the heading.
How to know in IMC to use rudder not ailerons to counter asymmetric thrust?
I can't find any resource, including AFH, that discusses this point.
Click to expand...

Normally one has an instrument scan... you aren't looking at just the heating indicator. Others pointed out the ball in the TC, which is true, but also, if you see your heading changing but the wings are level on the attitude indicator then that would be another clue.
 
Biggest thing to keep in mind is there is no need to rush. More than likely, if you lose an engine in flight, you’ll know something is wrong. Keep the blue side up. Be methodical, and take your time to identify/verify and feather.
 
No, you can see it all on the Turn Coordinator if you want to. If you step on the ball and center it, and the Turn Coordinator shows anything but level, you're in a turn. Most likely into the dead engine. They're rate-of-turn instruments, but not wings level instruments necessarily. You'll have to use the altimeter or other instruments to verify you're not descending in perfect equilibrium.
 
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A T&B instrument can be a very valuable backup. As a point of interest (but slight thread drift in this case) is that you can actually fly level on it alone by using the Stark 1-2-3 method (named after Howard Stark who invented it):

1. Center turn indicator with rudder only.

By using rudder you've now stopped the turn, but you don't know if you're level on the wings, which can then be derived from:

2. Center ball with ailerons only.

Now that you've eliminated any acceleration forces on the ball, it's just a spirit leveler. You can now level wings using that.

3. Center climb indicator (VSI) with elevator only.

Self explanatory.

Now, this does not work on Turn Coordinators as they blend roll and yaw rate, only works on the older style T&B's. Some old school IFR pilots have sometimes exchanged the newer TC for T&B's to mitigate this.

Here's a link to Howard Starks 1931 book on Instrument Flying. It's very interesting reading:

http://www.csobeech.com/files/Blind-Or-Instrument.pdf

Interestingly, this is also true in an engine out scenario in a twin (one of the last chapters in the above link). His method works equally well there. On top of this, the T&B indicator is also the only instrument that will tell you have to get out of a spin in IMC when an AI would just tumble.

Taking all this in, I nominate the T&B as the most important IFR instrument to have. Who's with me? ;)
 
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stratobee said:
Taking all this in, I nominate the T&B as the most important IFR instrument to have. Who's with me? ;)
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No disagreement here, but FAA is letting folks remove them and replace them with their old AI when the put accelerometer based electronic AIs in. Perfectly legal.

Perhaps they shouldn’t.
 
stratobee said:
Taking all this in, I nominate the T&B as the most important IFR instrument to have. Who's with me? ;)
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Naw, gotta have airspeed, altimeter, and a turn coordinator. Everything else is gravy.

well, maybe a compass too
 
denverpilot said:
No disagreement here, but FAA is letting folks remove them and replace them with their old AI when the put accelerometer based electronic AIs in. Perfectly legal.

Perhaps they shouldn’t.
Click to expand...


That's why there is a white ball with two vertical lines on the bottom of a g-5

Bob
 
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