Maybe Chevy was right NA

SoonerAviator said:
Auto has no idea what terrain is up ahead, so it has to be reactive when it notices you’ve started going up a hill, then it picks a gear based on initial load, then hunts around until it finds the right spot. Same for downhills. Manual transmission means you can be proactive and choose the gear you need the first time.
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Modern automatic trannys are better in almost every way than manuals. The only legitimate reason to prefer a manual is because, like @Ted DuPuis or @Sac Arrow , you just LIKE driving a manual transmission. All the other reasons I have heard are just excuses. If you happen to spend much time at boat ramps, if/when you see someone slide backwards into the water, you can almost bet they have a manual transmission. People complain about the reliability issue, but in 52 years of driving I have had three transmission failures. One was an automatic and two were manuals, and probably 80% of my cars have had automatics. It is just too difficult to text, drink coffee and eat a hamburger while driving a standard shift car.
 
JOhnH said:
Modern automatic trannys are better in almost every way than manuals. The only legitimate reason to prefer a manual is because, like @Ted DuPuis or @Sac Arrow , you just LIKE driving a manual transmission. All the other reasons I have heard are just excuses. If you happen to spend much time at boat ramps, if/when you see someone slide backwards into the water, you can almost bet they have a manual transmission. People complain about the reliability issue, but in 52 years of driving I have had three transmission failures. One was an automatic and two were manuals, and probably 80% of my cars have had automatics. It is just too difficult to text, drink coffee and eat a hamburger while driving a standard shift car.
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I never really had a problem texting, drinking coffee, violating a gf, etc... in a manual shift car. But I'm a little bit funny about eating in the car, regardless of the transmission. I don't eat in the car. When I eat, I'm focused on eating. I can't be bothered by things like driving, or conversation, plus, I make a mess when I eat. I don't need pickles strewn about on the upholstery, burger juice running down the seats, or spaghetti hanging from the mirrors.
 
JOhnH said:
Modern automatic trannys are better in almost every way than manuals. The only legitimate reason to prefer a manual is because, like @Ted DuPuis or @Sac Arrow , you just LIKE driving a manual transmission. All the other reasons I have heard are just excuses. If you happen to spend much time at boat ramps, if/when you see someone slide backwards into the water, you can almost bet they have a manual transmission. People complain about the reliability issue, but in 52 years of driving I have had three transmission failures. One was an automatic and two were manuals, and probably 80% of my cars have had automatics. It is just too difficult to text, drink coffee and eat a hamburger while driving a standard shift car.
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I don't believe I made any claim that autos weren't better in almost every way. I only prefer manual in a sports/muscle car for the same reasons Ted likes them (visceral connection to car outweighing any performance benefit), anywhere else give me the auto. I dislike manuals in trucks intensely because of the long throws and generally sloppy engagement, and even in Jeep Wranglers it's of limited novelty. I much prefer the auto transmission at the boat ramp because it's easier to modulate power, especially on a mossy/slippery surface. Almost impossible to do well with a manual unless you have a hand-operated emergency brake. There are certain instances where a manual transmission can be better, but it's exceedingly rare and much of the tech/EPA stuff has hindered manuals even further (GM forced 1st-4th gear skip shift anyone?). I do think that 10-spd autos are on the verge of ridiculous since there's very little fuel efficiency gained over 8spd models, but whatever.

I also didn't have any issues eating/drinking/texting with a manual transmission . . . even in cars without cupholders (300ZX TT, I'm looking at you). If you are adept enough at driving a stick, the momentary gear shifts aren't going to interrupt you much. I don't text and drive other than at stop lights anyway, and even then it's rare.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I do think that 10-spd autos are on the verge of ridiculous since there's very little fuel efficiency gained over 8spd models, but whatever.
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I recall reading that a few manufacturers have found with electronic controlled transmission; it is cheaper and easier from a logistics standpoint to over one shared transmission with multiple engine sizes. As a result, the transmissions now will often carry what people consider "extra" gears that offer marginal value for any specific engine. They do not realize that the single transmission is used with everything from a flat 4 to a super charged V6.

Tim
 
I tried to like the AT in the C7 before I ordered mine. In traffic I have a real problem with the torque converter. I am looking forward to the automated manual in the C8. The AT is otherwise faster, more efficient, etc. but it doesn’t understand the concept of NOW.
 
ebetancourt said:
I tried to like the AT in the C7 before I ordered mine. In traffic I have a real problem with the torque converter. I am looking forward to the automated manual in the C8. The AT is otherwise faster, more efficient, etc. but it doesn’t understand the concept of NOW.
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The dual clutches do have that nice direct feel to them, and the good ones snap off a shift in milliseconds. They do give up a little smoothness when starting from a stop.

I drove manuals for many decades, and I still enjoy shifting, but it's just so slow to shift a synchronized manual compared to a dual clutch. The non-synchronized, sequentially shifted gearboxes you find in race cars are super snappy too, but they're not appropriate for the street.
 
FormerHangie said:
The non-synchronized, sequentially shifted gearboxes you find in race cars are super snappy too, but they're not appropriate for the street.
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You mean the ones with ratcheted shifting like a motorcycle? Jay Leno put one of those in... I think it was a Lotus Elan. I'll agree not for most people, but seemed to do just fine.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
You mean the ones with ratcheted shifting like a motorcycle? Jay Leno put one of those in... I think it was a Lotus Elan. I'll agree not for most people, but seemed to do just fine.
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I haven't seen the clip, but it's probably the same setup, with dog clutch engagement of the gears and a shifter that you push one way to upshift and the other to downshift. They're very common on race cars. The driver only needs the clutch to start and stop.
 
FormerHangie said:
I haven't seen the clip, but it's probably the same setup, with dog clutch engagement of the gears and a shifter that you push one way to upshift and the other to downshift. They're very common on race cars. The driver only needs the clutch to start and stop.
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I'll put a link to the video below. The whole thing is very interesting (I really love the restorations that Jay does to his vehicles) but on the driving portion you get to see and hear the car in action. It definitely inspired me to want to make a car with this kind of transmission.

 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'll put a link to the video below. The whole thing is very interesting (I really love the restorations that Jay does to his vehicles) but on the driving portion you get to see and hear the car in action. It definitely inspired me to want to make a car with this kind of transmission.

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That's got to be about the ultimate restomod. To have that many resources available sure must be nice.

If you want a sequential shifted dog gearbox, Quaife can set you up. I suspect the shifter would be in the wrong place for the Cobra, you might have to fabricate something to make that work. Looks like about $10,000 by the time you add duties and freight, maybe a little less.

From their web site:
Shifting with a dog box is different to a synchro box in that gear changes need to be fast and positive rather than slow and smooth.
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You'd pretty much just breathe the throttle and pull/push the lever, unless you wanted to add a power cut setup, in which case you can dispense with the breathing of the throttle. Dual clutch transmissions provide much of the same experience with a more streetable user experience. I don't think I'd care to use a dog box in a daily driver. My Formula Ford had a Hewland Mk 9 transaxle, which is a dog engagement four speed, stuffed into an upside down VW case. It did use an H pattern shifter rather than the sequential, which requires a little more technique than does the sequential.

My sister has a GTI with VW's dual clutch DSG transmission, and it's a very nice setup. She usually uses it in manual shifting mode, but if she gets in heavy traffic and just doesn't feel like bothering with it, she can put it in full automatic mode and the car takes care of things.

Next month, we're going down to PBIR for her first track day. She's always been into equestrian sports, but at age 63 has decided to start dabbling in a different type of horsepower.
 
Shifting in classic cars (old muscle cars, vettes etc.) is all part of the experience and I really like it. I'm on the search for my next classic (1960's Barracuda) and it will be a 4-spd or perhaps a Tremec 5-Spd. I remember as a kid walking onto a car lot in the 1970's and seeing an automatic in a performance car and thought, "how odd, why would anyone want an automatic in a car like this?" Well, it's true that an automatic will get you down the drag strip faster and is less bothersome on jam-packed LA freeways, but the experience everywhere else is better with a manual. My opinion.
Chevy could install manuals in Vettes if they wanted but they're out to make a profit and the demand is just not there. Additional tooling, training, assembly costs and parts support of a manual trans all eat away at the profit margin. When you consider that most people want the new trans there's no reason to offer an additional manual that only a few are going to opt for after experiencing the new setup.
I'm not in the market for a new Vette as I like to roll my own, but if I was I'd choose a manual (if it was an option) because it's what I was weaned on, unlike the younger generation that grew up not knowing what a clutch is, much less how to even use one! I think the new Vette will sell well enough that the possibility of offering a manual trans won't even be a topic considered in the boardrooms at Cheverolet.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I'll put a link to the video below. The whole thing is very interesting (I really love the restorations that Jay does to his vehicles) but on the driving portion you get to see and hear the car in action. It definitely inspired me to want to make a car with this kind of transmission.

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Here's a video of a Porsche GT3 Cup car with a sequential dog gearbox:


As you can see the shifts are on the abrupt side, which is one of the reasons you don't find that style of transmission in street cars. Here's a lap of that famous old German racetrack that drivers called "the green Hell" in a 911 GT3 RS, equipped with Porsche's dual clutch transmission, the PDK:


Same quick shifts, but much smoother.
 
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FormerHangie said:
Here's a video of a Porsche GT3 Cup car with a sequential dog gearbox:


As you can see the shifts are on the abrupt side, which is one of the reasons you don't find that style of transmission in street cars. Here's a lap of that famous old German racetrack that drivers called "the green Hell" in a 911 GT3 RS, equipped with Porsche's dual clutch transmission, the PDK:


Same quick shifts, but much smoother.
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Great video clips. I've always wanted to drive a lap of the Nordschleife. I had a chance back about 14 years ago and, unfortunately, didn't take it. But I had a lot of fun with the car I was driving (Alfa Romeo 156) anyway, including taking it on the Autobahn and through the Swiss Alps.

I'll certainly agree that the dual clutch gives the quick shifts and smoother than the sequential dog box. I've driven dual clutch gearboxes before and they are both fast and smooth shifting. I'll agree, far more street friendly, especially for the average driver.

It should also come as no surprise to you that I would still want the old sequential dog box like what Jay put in his Lotus in a car for me.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Great video clips. I've always wanted to drive a lap of the Nordschleife. I had a chance back about 14 years ago and, unfortunately, didn't take it. But I had a lot of fun with the car I was driving (Alfa Romeo 156) anyway, including taking it on the Autobahn and through the Swiss Alps.

I'll certainly agree that the dual clutch gives the quick shifts and smoother than the sequential dog box. I've driven dual clutch gearboxes before and they are both fast and smooth shifting. I'll agree, far more street friendly, especially for the average driver.

It should also come as no surprise to you that I would still want the old sequential dog box like what Jay put in his Lotus in a car for me.
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The sequential dog box is current racing technology for most of the world, NASCAR being excepted. They're still using an H pattern dog box, but are considering going to a sequential in the near future: NASCAR is considering going to a sequentially shifted transmission in 2021.

Also, if anyone is curious about what we mean by a "dog box", there's a good video here:

 
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