May have fibbed on last medical....

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Deltakilo99, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Deltakilo99

    Deltakilo99 Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi everyone, this is my first post here.

    I have been searching and reading this site for several days, and gotten a lot of great insight, but not exactly what pertains to my specific situation, so I thought I would open an account, and come on here and ask. Thanks to everyone in advance who takes time to read this.

    Almost 5 years ago, I had an incident where due to a very upsetting life event, I drank too much for a few days (at home), and sufficiently frightened a friend of mine over the phone (thinking I was a danger to myself) that he did what a good friend would do, and sent responders to my house.

    The policemen who came, very rationally explained that as usual, there is an easy way and a hard way. The easy way was to voluntarily let them take me to the hospital, where I was checked in for "alcohol abuse".

    After thawing out for 2 days and being cleared by the staff psychiatrist, I was released. I decided then and there that if alcohol could cause that sort of event in my life, then it was something I could do without. From that day on I removed alcohol from my life and never looked back.

    Then, I made a couple of mistakes. One accidental, one unfortunately not so much.

    A couple months after the incident, when it had faded somewhat in memory and I had moved on with my life, I went flying a few times. Now I am sure that I had learned and acknowledged the self grounding rule at some time in the past, but since I had never had a problem with alcohol and substances, it just did not occur to me that I should have reported myself after this. Once It did, I discontinued flying while figuring out what to do. I still had a current flight review and medical, but I stopped flying and let it lapse.

    The second not so honest mistake:
    I knew the medical would ask if I had any substance abuse in the last 2 years. So, before flying again, I waited for that two years to pass, and then went for a fresh medical, knowing that I could honestly answer "NO".

    However, as we all know, there was also another question asking if I had been admitted to the hospital for any reason at all in the previous *3* years. To which I also regrettably answered no. At the time I was irrationally trying to justify it in my mind as " well I can always say I thought they meant 'anything besides the two-year question' , or " well, I can always say I thought that said two years as well"..

    Trust me, I know it was wrong, and I have regretted it ever since. And yes, I have flown since receiving that last Medical. By the way, I am only private, and this is a third class.

    Now, my next medical is coming due again, and even if I were planning on pleading ignorance again, which I am not, the question is now "have you had ANY of these issues at ANY time in your life"...

    I decided a while ago I was not going to lie on the medical again, and I am certainly not going to lie to such a clear and direct question.

    I need to stress again that I completely separated myself from alcohol after that event 4 1/2 years ago, however, it was a willpower decision I made on the spot, therefore I did not seek any assistance, and therefore, possibly unfortunately, there is no record of seeking any assistance. Prior to this, I was just an average drinker. No DUIs, no violence, no family problems or career problems due to drinking, it was just one really bad weekend. Therefore, I knew it wouldn't be any problem to do it on my own, so the benefits of seeking treatment didn't occur to me.

    Obviously I would love to fly again, and yes, I do realize, that unless I were to get in some sort of accident or incident that the likelihood of me being found out is very small. However, my moral compass is preventing me from taking an upcoming medical and lying on it.

    So the questions, have probably become pretty obvious throughout reading this, if any of you were so kind to sit through all of it!

    1) Is there ANY road to success that begins with voluntarily fessing up to the FAA about a past omission?

    2) Would my first stop be with a problem case AME? An aviation attorney?

    3) If you think there is some way that this could end with me once again being a "squeaky clean" certificate holder, any idea how many years and thousands of dollars would stand between now and then?

    4) Do I have a chance at all at success here? Or should I quietly let my medical lapse, be thankful for the time I was able to be a private pilot, thank my lucky stars, and start thinking about part 103? ( although I'm trying to do the honest thing here, I don't think I'm going to report my past transgressions to the FAA if I'm not going to be able to fly anymore regardless. I consider myself a good person, but I am not Superman:)

    Thanks so much to all you girls and guys for taking the time to read this, based on what I have read here in the past few days, I really respect your opinions.
    What would YOU do?

    Thanks again!
     
  2. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    Why get another medical? Just go basicmed.
     
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  3. Deltakilo99

    Deltakilo99 Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi Dana, thanks for that fast reply. It seems that the basicMed questionnaire also asks those at "any time in your life" questions, leaving me thinking that I would be up against the same hurdles. Am I wrong about this?

    Thanks again!
     
  4. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    The only way to jump those hurdles is to get in front of them.
     
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  5. Deltakilo99

    Deltakilo99 Filing Flight Plan

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    Would very much like to. Hoping to find some guidance on where to begin.

    Thanks!
     
  6. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    @Deltakilo99 -- This is definitely a Senior AME sort of question.

    Many of us here are somewhat knowledgeable in the "common cases" and can provide anecdotal information and some measure of "go team go" support.

    But for the really thorny situations such as the one you present, it's best to wait for either Dr. Bruce Chien or Dr. Lou Fowler to comment.

    So, let's page Doctor's Lou and Bruce on the white courtesy phone for their input. @lbfjrmd @bbchien


    PS... Welcome to PoA!!
     
  7. Deltakilo99

    Deltakilo99 Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks so much AggieMike! I look forward to any and all guidance I might find.
     
  8. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

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    The head-on, no bullsh*t way to get your questions answered is to contact Dr Bruce Chien, who frequents this board and he may answer here. However I would advise taking this offline and to contact Dr. Chien - a Senior AME and specialist in difficult medical certifications - directly on his webpage: www.aeromedicaldoc.com Just like your initial post sounds, Dr. Bruce (as many of us here call him) is also a no bullshi*t guy. Be brutally honest with him. If there is a path forward for you, he knows it.

    There is also a second Senior AME here, Dr. Lou Fowler. I do not mean anything negative at all about Dr. Lou. Dr. Lou wasn’t on this Board years ago when Dr. Bruce helped me, and I recommend him from first hand experience.

    Good Luck, and Best Wishes!

    -Skip
     
  9. Deltakilo99

    Deltakilo99 Filing Flight Plan

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    Thank you Skip, and everyone else who has and who will reply. I did visit Doctor Bruce's web page before composing this post, and was intending to ask him this question, but I will be honest, his contact link asked me to provide my full name. I would want to honor his wishes and do so, but the fact that I am admitting to some transgressions here kept me initially from going that route, and posting here anonymously instead...
     
  10. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

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    Dr. Bruce will not "turn you in"! That's what I mean you have to be scrupulously honest with him. Look at it this way - either you want to fly or you don't. If there is any possible way to do that in accordance with the regs, Dr. Bruce knows it. Man up and level with him. I cannot discount the possibility that he says that there is no way for you. I do hope that is not the case but you can't know until you find out!

    Or not.

    But it sounds to me as a layperson, you are certifiable (in a good sense! ;)) but the only way to do that is to level with him.

    -Skip
     
  11. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, you're still obligated to answer the questions truthfully, but BasicMed cuts the FAA bureaucracy out of the loop. That's a big advantage, because the bureaucracy tends to go overboard on expecting expen$ive tests, specialist consultations, etc., including making you wait forever-and-a-day to get an answer. With BasicMed, the examining physician is entitled to use his or her own judgment in deciding whether your alcohol and any medical issues have been appropriately dealt with. Also, the fact that you fudged on a previous application does not enter into it, because there's no question on the form that asks, "Have you ever fudged on an FAA form?"
     
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  12. Deltakilo99

    Deltakilo99 Filing Flight Plan

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    Wow, thanks Palmpilot, I didn't know all that. Basicmed may be a good option, as I have no aspirations to exceed any of it's weight/speed/pax limits. Thanks again.
     
  13. Tommar98

    Tommar98 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m just curious why this is just a Dr Bruce issue. It seems it’s also an aviation attorney issue. Making a false statement on a medical application is one problem. The actual medical condition which occurred is the other one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hhhmmm.... a pickle I’d say.

    Lying on a federal form is a serious offense with stiff potential penalties. I think I’d go BasicMed, which is between you and your MD. Then wait out the 4 years that it is good for, and then go for a Class 3 if desired.
     
  15. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    How does waiting 4 years change his situation?
     
  16. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Because no one knows about the misdeed except the OP, and after three years he can firmly answer the question as a no based upon what he has told us. Ends up between himself, God, and his own conscious.
     
  17. lbfjrmd

    lbfjrmd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    FAA HIMS/AME/ATC flight doc
    you do not have to explain the 1st ommission, nor will there be penalties. admit on next application. expect a full HIMS evaluation. Most are successful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  18. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I don’t see a time limit on hospital admissions.

    I’m not saying it’s a big deal, just not seeing why waiting makes any difference.
     
  19. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-Flight

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    BasicMed forever. The only reason to get a Class III is flying out of the country (yeah, yeah.....6000# blah, blah).

    Or do the HIM$ thing and be grounded for months while you go through it.
     
  20. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    Maybe I'm missing something important here, but the Med question is about 'a history of alcohol dependence or abuse'. Sounds like a one time bender, not a 'history of abuse'.
     
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  21. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    He was admitted to the hospital for "alcohol abuse". You have to report hospital visits.
     
  22. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    To add to what Palmpilot said, since there's no reporting to the FAA with basic med, there's no consequence for "failing" like there is with going in to an AME and being denied a medical.
     
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  23. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The special issuance for alcohol abuse (not for dependency) is two years of negative urines, random, in FAA qualified fashion and can be done privately. They call you pee. At the need of two years you have satisfied 67.307.

    I would counsel to find a HIMS AME and start a program so that you can be issued when you currently expire. Also so that the FAA officer is more concerned with "how am I going to issue this guy, who is not a danger"
     
  24. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Medical definitions of words don't always line up with commonplace, common sense definition of words. In medical lingo, "history of" means did it ever happen, even if only once on an isolated occasion. Also, equally frustrating, is that "acute" doesn't mean severe, it means sudden, or of abrupt onset. "Acute Anxiety" doesn't mean that you're so distraught you can't function, it means that you feel upset, even mildly, suddenly without warning. Unfortunately, a "one time bender" IS a "history of abuse."
     
  25. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    Prophetic!! Love this line.