Massport found a way to effectively kill GA at BOS

Groundpounder said:
There are some pretty big hitters in the Boston business scene that are going to be a little ****ed about this.
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Big enough to get the Massholes to tell 121 too bad? Probably not.
 
My Director of Ops confirmed with Signature. As of 10/21, 72 hour PPR, no RON, four hours max on the ramp.
 
I wonder how this might affect Signature now.
 
EdFred said:
Big enough to get the Massholes to tell 121 too bad? Probably not.
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You never know. If the governor picks up the phone and calls Massport and asks why the chairman of (insert major investment firm name here) can't park his jet over at the FBO, there better be a really good reason.
 
I have twice this summer been flying out/in flights to KBOS where weather caused diversions to KBOS, mostly international ones which were supposed to head to NYC area.
They had planes parked all over place; with police erecting temporary barriers....
One time, the 787 was parked in front of signature, it was rather interesting have police escort for the buses to take us to customs.
The other time, the plane was parked in front the MX hangars, they had ground crews moving the planes around, they were packed in so tight; I thought it was a poor GA shared hangar space.

Tim
 
wsuffa said:
No real surprise. GA is effectively dead at DCA, LGA's not far behind, so no surprise about BOS. And the "open to all" thing appears to be a non-issue with the current Federal structure.
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Security theatre killed it at DCA. I had a friend who had a plane there (210 if I recall) up until 9/11. It was always pricey. Dulles was a little more reasonable for years. I paid $125 for the privilege of parking my plane on the ramp there in an unassigned space for a few years before I moved to VKX. The price went up to $350 and since all the GA bailed from DCA, I don't want to think about what it is now.
 
Some larger and busier commercial airports are extremely limited in available land and/or capacity. I fully understand the issues encountered and why GA doesn't feel invited to those airports. Of 2,200 public use airports in the US, less than 400 have commercial service, and only a handful such as BOS, LGA, and DCA fit those criteria. Is it really the end of the world for GA to not use a few of those airports instead of nearby relievers?
 
midwestpa24 said:
Some larger and busier commercial airports are extremely limited in available land and/or capacity. I fully understand the issues encountered and why GA doesn't feel invited to those airports. Of 2,200 public use airports in the US, less than 400 have commercial service, and only a handful such as BOS, LGA, and DCA fit those criteria. Is it really the end of the world for GA to not use a few of those airports instead of nearby relievers?
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I dunno. It's public use. If the airlines don't want GA there, maybe they should build their own airport, make it private use, take no federal funding, and have permission required?
 
EdFred said:
I dunno. It's public use. If the airlines don't want GA there, maybe they should build their own airport, make it private use, take no federal funding, and have permission required?
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Airlines are a public use too.


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EdFred said:
I dunno. It's public use. If the airlines don't want GA there, maybe they should build their own airport, make it private use, take no funding, and have permission required?
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If you look into it, the airlines pretty much have funded those airports. The airlines provide the majority of funding for airports, which is why most of that money gets reinvested in the commercial airports. As important as GA is, we really aren't a huge contributor financially. How much money is a typical single engine piston paying to the federal government per flight?
 
midwestpa24 said:
If you look into it, the airlines pretty much have funded those airports. The airlines provide the majority of funding for airports, which is why most of that money gets reinvested in the commercial airports. As important as GA is, we really aren't a huge contributor financially. How much money is a typical single engine piston paying to the federal government per flight?
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I'm thinking in the grand scheme of things the airlines don't even come close to covering the costs for these airports, it's taxpayers who build them, the schleps going to work every day. But I don't have any numbers and am loathe to look.
 
midwestpa24 said:
If you look into it, the airlines pretty much have funded those airports. The airlines provide the majority of funding for airports, which is why most of that money gets reinvested in the commercial airports. As important as GA is, we really aren't a huge contributor financially. How much money is a typical single engine piston paying to the federal government per flight?
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Oh, I get that, but public use IS public use. Since electric cars don't pay as much as LTL carriers in road taxes (or any at all when you figure in tax credits) should they be essentially banned from interstates?
 
gsengle said:
No I get your point. Free market is dictating.


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Free market shouldn't be in play when it's a publicly owned facility. I also disagree with interstates built with public funds and then sold off to private companies who then charge you to use them. Now if the private company built the road out of their own pocket...
 
PaulS said:
I'm thinking in the grand scheme of things the airlines don't even come close to covering the costs for these airports, it's taxpayers who build them, the schleps going to work every day. But I don't have any numbers and am loathe to look.
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Airports the size of BOS are self sufficient, with the exception of grant funding from the FAA for major infrastructure projects. Grant funding from the FAA comes from taxes imposed on aviation. The general fund and your average John Q. Taxpayer aren't very involved in the aviation sector normally.

Look at it another way. BOS is land/sea locked. There is zero room for expansion at its current facility. Airline travel is growing about 5% per year lately. The airlines are the single largest revenue source for BOS. Should BOS refuse airline's request for additional flights and destinations for the common Boston traveler, and the economic growth that comes with it, to save some of its limited resources for GA? What is the solution? Status quo isn't an option.

The only other even remote option is to pull a DEN, build a new multi-billion dollar airport outside of the city somewhere.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The only other even remote option is to pull a DEN, build a new multi-billion dollar airport outside of the city somewhere.
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Kinda sounds like a given, if these population travel growth estimates hold true.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Some larger and busier commercial airports are extremely limited in available land and/or capacity. I fully understand the issues encountered and why GA doesn't feel invited to those airports. Of 2,200 public use airports in the US, less than 400 have commercial service, and only a handful such as BOS, LGA, and DCA fit those criteria. Is it really the end of the world for GA to not use a few of those airports instead of nearby relievers?
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Insert the word "Interstates" for "Airports" and "18 Wheelers" for "Airplanes". How would John Q public feel about that?

Torches and pitchforks, I suspect.
 
rsleeds said:
I know it's not common thought on here, but those "wealthy enough to own or lease a jet" are GA too and this whole scenario impacts that segment very harshly. The precedence here, whether a legitimate response to Massport giving GA space to the airlines or not, is a big take of GA rights across the board - G5's, Learjets, Cirruses, and 172's etal...
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Ah, you said "rights". Where are these "rights" enumerated?
 
Consequences of having airport boards filled with people who really don’t know aviation. All they see is money and the money is all made in the commercial terminal.
 
I fly into Boston pretty often but always go to Norwood. They like my 172 a lot more than the folks at BOS. :)

Not sure how well they handle the corporate crowd but they've always treated me really well.
 
OWD or BVY puts me into the locations I travel to in the area. I can actually beat the people who did land at Logan to the destination as I avoid the traffic mess.

Still there are other places where being locked out of the primary airport is a bit more onerous.
 
It isn’t just GA. I saw a highway sign on the way to BOS advertising delta flights to DTW from Worcester Airport...so even the airlines are using alternatives.

on a side note, why would any GA pilot want to subject themselves to BOS anyway? Crowded, expensive, crappy weather, etc.
 
Johnbo said:
It isn’t just GA. I saw a highway sign on the way to BOS advertising delta flights to DTW from Worcester Airport...so even the airlines are using alternatives.

on a side note, why would any GA pilot want to subject themselves to BOS anyway? Crowded, expensive, crappy weather, etc.
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Well since I rep a company near Boston guess where I have to fly to for meetings?
 
This is going to screw the patients that Angel Flight East and other Public Benefit Flying organizations fly in to hospitals in Boston. BOS was super easy for them and less expensive to get to their hospital for treatment.
 
What is the definition of GA in this case? Everything non-major airline related or private pilots flying for fun or non-hire?
 
GA = everything except 121.
 
EdFred said:
GA = everything except 121.
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Ok then I change my tone a bit. I am a small town pilot and really only consider the folks flying around in Pitts, Cubs, etc as GA.
 
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