Martin Aviation Group

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]"The flight instruction industry for general aviation is fractionalized and disorganized. 3,513 flights schools exist in the 48 states. Take out the university flight training programs, a handful of very well run flight schools and those geared exclusively to producing professional pilots and 3,350 remain. Those remaining are small, independent, inefficient, financially broke and dangerous. These schools are not professionally operated, they lack customer service and do not follow detailed systems in either their business operations of their flight training procedures."

So, what's needed is the expert guidance of a student pilot too stupid to look at a chart or check NOTAMs.
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SCCutler said:
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So, what's needed is the expert guidance of a student pilot too stupid to look at a chart or check NOTAMs.
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Yep! He'll straighten it all out, for the right price of course
 
smigaldi said:
Yep! He'll straighten it all out, for the right price of course
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I think you'll find he's more interested in selling you a franchise than selling you a flight lesson.
 
Heew Boy! So all of the folks with great aviation educations and with high levels of experience can't do as a good a job as this humble person! (Where have I heard this before--maybe Food Lion moving to Texas to show them Texicans how the grocery store business should really operate.)

Guess we'll see.

Dave
 
I'm amazed the guy doesn't even have a license yet and he's touting schools using his system.

nothing like making lemonade out of lemons huh?
 
woodstock said:
I'm amazed the guy doesn't even have a license yet and he's touting schools using his system.

nothing like making lemonade out of lemons huh?
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He's trying to make lemonade out of dog poop!
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Heew Boy! So all of the folks with great aviation educations and with high levels of experience can't do as a good a job as this humble person! (Where have I heard this before--maybe Food Lion moving to Texas to show them Texicans how the grocery store business should really operate.)

Guess we'll see.

Dave
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Nathan's hot dogs opened a store on Michigan Avenue to show us hic Chicagoans what a real hot dog is like.

It closed in less than a year.
 
Yeeeahhh... Sorry, there's no way I'm going to go near any lessons this guy has to offer. That's like taking a defensive driving course from someone who has had 3 at-fault accidents in the past year.
 
Two words folks...self promotion. And it seems with this topic coming up on aviation boards, he has in fact learned the art of marketing.
Would I give this guy a $ or a minute, absolutely not.
 
SCCutler said:
"The flight instruction industry for general aviation is fractionalized and disorganized. 3,513 flights schools exist in the 48 states. Take out the university flight training programs, a handful of very well run flight schools and those geared exclusively to producing professional pilots and 3,350 remain. Those remaining are small, independent, inefficient, financially broke and dangerous. These schools are not professionally operated, they lack customer service and do not follow detailed systems in either their business operations of their flight training procedures."
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So, out of this ENTIRE country, there is only 163 places you can learn to fly half decently and the rest are death traps? My BS detector just exploded all over the room. Total crockup.

I've run across the occasional flaming idget instructor and dumbhead FBO/flight school and granted I haven't been to every single one in the country but the sample ratio is no where near 20:1.

With a little effort I could probably name at least half a dozen small mom and pop operations off the top of my head that are not on the list of 163 where the unprofessional (shorts, tshirt and tennis shoes) laid back (sitting in the lawn chair patting chocks the airport dog on the head) instructor can clean the clock of the typical professional pilot mill instructor even on a bad day. I'm not saying the big operations are bad, I'm just saying that all the really good instructors don't necessarily reside there. Some reside under the wing of their own plane in a forgotten dirt floor back hanger at Podunk Nowhere.

Glitzy marble, glass and neckties(?hangman noose?) has absolutely no correlation whatsoever to the quality of training given or received.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
I missed a lot of the red board I think. Could this be HWMNBN?
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Nope, Jason had a damn sight more sense than this Martin guy.
 
You might not say it, I will, the products of the CFI mills, are abysmal flight instructors at best and the students that they turn out are not even that good.

Add all of that to the fact that they are only seeking to build time at someone elses expense and I feel that their actions are criminal.

give me the old boy stroking chocks head anyday,
 
wesleyj said:
You might not say it, I will, the products of the CFI mills, are abysmal flight instructors at best and the students that they turn out are not even that good.

Add all of that to the fact that they are only seeking to build time at someone elses expense and I feel that their actions are criminal.

give me the old boy stroking chocks head anyday,
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I've flown with 15 different instructors so far, ranging from a former Red Arrow to someone just out of Embry-Riddle.

Of the top five, one was the "fresh out of E-R" guy, who did more in one lesson to help me master 8s on pylons than the previous instructor had in five. (and yes, the Red Arrow was in the top five too).

Some people are not good at teaching due to attitude or aptitude. It's incorrect to paint all young CFIs with the same brush. It's also an incorrect statement to claim that their sole motivation is to build time at someone elses expense. Every new pilot must build time to qualify to be hired for a full-time job. Instructing is generally the most efficient way to build that time, both in terms of money and calendar time expended. So most pilots choose that path, and I'd say that most give good value to their customers when they do so. None of my instructors, even the one who called it "paying his dues", was ever lazy or unprofessional - though some were gifted teachers and some were not. The management of the flight training operation is responsible for the service delivered (yikes- sounds like I'm agreeing with Mr. Martin) and my experience has been good.

By the way, many professions work the same fashion. In medicine, for instance, you graduate, and then spend the next however-many years working in a structured system of increasing responsibility, gaining experience along the way, including teaching folks just behind you in the queue.

So, if you're not happy with your CFI, talk to him about it, then talk to his/her boss, and don't be afraid to vote with your feet and your wallet.
 
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