Martin Aviation Group update...

[wbarnhill]

Mr. Martin has pushed his website even more... even stating what the "typical Martin Aviation Group customer" will be like:

THE TYPICAL MAG STUDENT WILL:

be a private college student or graduate;

have a net household income in excess of $100,000;

have maintained a three year credit score in excess of 750;

has no interest in maintaining their own aircraft;

range in age from eighteen through fifty-five;

does not own an aircraft;

agree to follow a rigid training schedule.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Mr. Martin has pushed his website even more... even stating what the "typical Martin Aviation Group customer" will be like:

Am I the only one that thinks a few items in that list are mutually exclusive?

 

[wbarnhill]

Am I the only one that thinks a few items in that list are mutually exclusive?

C'mon, he just wants the best students for his flight school, right???

 

[poadeleted1]

Am I the only one that thinks a few items in that list are mutually exclusive?

So he has identified 2 people in the universe who meet his criteria...he is just being selective....personally, I think he needs to set the finances higher to make sure he screens out the riff-raff (as opposed to rip-rap). And only accept students of the opposite gender.

 

[Len Lanetti]

I think I understand what he meant to say but "has no interest in maintaining their own aircraft" is not the kind of pilot anyone should want to be....regardless if the rent, are part of a club, are a member of a partnership or are part of a fractional ownership. Maybe I'm just too old school.

Len

 

[Anthony]

I think I understand what he meant to say but "has no interest in maintaining their own aircraft" is not the kind of pilot anyone should want to be....regardless if the rent, are part of a club, are a member of a partnership or are part of a fractional ownership. Maybe I'm just too old school.

No Len, you are not "old school", you are right. Who would not want to know the condition or their airplane through personal knowledge of the maintenance.

I think this guy is looking for the "typical" Cirrus SR22 buyer, and we all know what's happening to some of them.

 

[etsisk]

he's looking for some playboy-dilettantes who only want to do what they want to do and leave all that other "safety stuff" to the little people to deal with...

Well, birds of a feather, I guess . . .

 

[Anthony]

From their website:

WHAT IS MARTINISM



Martinism is the methodology of Martin Aviation Group and the Martin Organization. Martinism is a documented body of methods, rules, principles, practices, and procedures applied to general aviation in a coherent, consistent, accountable, and repeatable manner. The finished product of Martinism is a safe, professionally trained, personal and business pilot.

As in all methodologies, the power is inversely proportional to the generality of the method. In other words, the more detailed the method, the more powerful. It makes no sense to measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk and then cut with axe.

Martinism is revolution for general aviation. It is a restructuring of the interrelationships between pilots, insurance, banking, aircraft manufacturing and flight schools.

Actually I got it mixed up with "Martinizing". You know, the Dry Cleaning process.

 

[woodstock]

is he the ADIZ guy?

 

[ScottM]

is he the ADIZ guy?

Yep he is the ADIZ Poster Child of what not to do.

 

[EdFred]

THE TYPICAL MAG CUSTOMER


MAG customers are successful by any measure, educated and hold themselves and others to exacting standards. Their reasons for wanting access to an airplane vary from purely business to recreational and everything in between. MAG makes it easy to use an airplane… SAFELY!

Customer Profile:
- Age - 20 to 55
- 3 Year credit score of 700
- Serious and committed to safe flights
- Annual income greater than $100,000
- Vocation – professional, business owner
- Education – predominately college educated
- Travel – Need to take 2-5 trips per month
- Excepts nothing less than stellar customer service
- Exhibits no tolerance for wasted time or excuses
- Does NOT have interest in owning or maintaining airplanes
- Agrees to a stringent, structured program with weekly lessons

Customer Reported inconsistencies at MAG schools will be addressed by MAG Corporate within 24 hours​

​

What professionals!​

 

[markb5900]

You missed the best part of the site.
The "student/SUCKER" must pay $28,000 up front and it is NON REFUNDABLE!!
To be a MARTIN CERTIFIED PILOT. ROTFL

Mark B

 

[alaskaflyer]

(Courtesy of a wag at studentpilot.com)

 

[gismo]

Martinism is the methodology of Martin Aviation Group and the Martin Organization. Martinism is a documented body of methods, rules, principles, practices, and procedures applied to general aviation in a coherent, consistent, accountable, and repeatable manner. The finished product of Martinism is a safe, professionally trained, personal and business pilot.

As in all methodologies, the power is inversely proportional to the generality of the method. In other words, the more detailed the method, the more powerful. It makes no sense to measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk and then cut with axe.

Martinism is revolution for general aviation. It is a restructuring of the interrelationships between pilots, insurance, banking, aircraft manufacturing and flight schools.

Seems to me that "Martinism" is all about boardroom buzzwords and trite sayings. What a bunch of BS.

 

[mikea]

Seems to me that "Martinism" is all about boardroom buzzwords and trite sayings. What a bunch of BS.

I have a BINGO, SIR!

 

[ScottM]

Seems to me that "Martinism" is all about boardroom buzzwords and trite sayings. What a bunch of BS.

Actually Martinism is the new paradigm in flight training synergies. The Martin Aviation Group has evolved the flight training eco-system and rationlized a new core proccess to foster an outstanding end product that delights the customer with significant ethics and leverages a student's catalyst for learning. The principle centered paradigm allows for the low risk, high payoff, goals of a student pilot to be realized in a comfortable environment while maximizing profitability of the governing education center.


Whew, I have to go bath now!!

 

[ggroves]

Further proof that registering a web address and putting up a web site is WAAAAAAYYYYY too easy.

Greg
182RG

 

[gmwalk]

From their website:

WHAT IS MARTINISM


Martinism is revolution for general aviation. It is a restructuring of the interrelationships between pilots, insurance, banking, aircraft manufacturing and flight schools.

Actually I got it mixed up with "Martinizing". You know, the Dry Cleaning process.

Actually, I think you got it right. He is looking to take a lot of people to the cleaners!

 

[Pjsmith]

It looks like I have scored a 57.16% on the Martin Student Scale (meeting 4 of 7 criteria). It's too bad that I will never be a successful student or pilot. Oh, wait, I was/am. Well, at least I won't ever wander cluelessly into an ADIZ.

I wonder what Troy scored? I'm guessing he pegged the age and the 'does not own a plane'. Everything else is prolly a tossup.

 

[SJP]

I wouldn't send one dollar to Mr Martin. I'm surpised one of the Lawyer types hasn't slapped a class-action lawsuit on him for damaging the General Aviation landscape irrevocably.

How that gentleman can then profess to be able to teach safe operation of an aircraft better than the existing industry is beyond hippocritical.

I wish him the best in his business venture...just as I wish his future students the clarity of foresight to be able to avoid him like the plague.

 

[Matthew]

Just wondering what it would read like if I ran it through a Pirate translator:

MAG customers be successful by any measure, educated an' hold they's self an' others t' exactin' standards. The'r reasons fer wantin' access t' an airplane vary from purely business t' recreational an' everythin' in between. MAG makes 't easy t' use an airplane… SAFELY!

Customer Profile:
- Age - 20 t' 55
- 3 Voyage credit score o' 700
- Serious an' committed t' safe flights
- Annual income greater than $100,000
- Vocation – professional, business owner
- Education – predominately college educated
- Set sail – Need t' take 2-5 trips per moon
- Excepts nothin' less than stellar customer service
- Exhibits nay tolerance fer wasted time or excuses
- Does NAY be havin' interest in ownin' or maintainin' airplanes
- Agrees t' a stringent, structured program wi' weekly lessons


Martinism be th' methodology o' Martin Aviation Squadron an' th' Martin Organization. Martinism be a documented body o' methods, rules, principles, practices, an' procedures applied t' general aviation in a coherent, consistent, accountable, an' repeatable manner. Th' finished product o' Martinism be a safe, professionally trained, swabbieal an' business pilot.

As in all methodologies, th' power be inversely proportional t' th' generality o' th' method. In other words, th' more detailed th' method, th' more powerful. 't makes nay sense t' measure wi' a micrometer, mark wi' chalk an' then cut wi' axe.

Martinism be revolution fer general aviation. 'tis a restructurin' o' th' interrelationships between pilots, insurance, bankin', aircraft manufacturin' an' flight schools


Oh well, back to work.

 

[poadeleted1]

THE TYPICAL MAG CUSTOMER

MAG cestomers is successful by enny measure, ejoocayted an' hold themselves an' others t'exackin' stan'ards. Their reasons fo' wantin' access t'an airplane vary fum purely business t'recreashunal an' ev'rythin' in between, as enny fool kin plainly see. MAG makes it easy t'use an airplane… SAFELY! Fry mah hide!

Cestomer Profile:
- Age - 20 t'55
- 3 Year credit sco'e of 700
- Serious an' committed t'safe flights
- Annual income greater than $100,000
- Vocashun – professhunal, business owny
- Ejoocayshun – predominately college ejoocayted
- Travel – Need t'take 2-5 trips per month
- Accepps nothin' less than stellar cestomer service
- Exhibits no tolerance fo' wasted time o' excuses
- Does NOT haf interess in ownin' o' maintainin' airplanes
- Agrees t'a stringint, struckured program wif weekly lessons

Cestomer Repo'ted inconsissencies at MAG skoos will be addressed by MAG Co'po'ate wifin 24 arrs.

 

[poadeleted1]

WHAT BE MARTINISM

Martinism be de medodology uh Martin Aviashun Group and da damn Martin Organizashun.

Martinism be a documented body uh medods, rules, principles, practices, and procedures applied t'general aviashun in some coherent, consistent, accountable, and be doin' it ovah way.

Ah be baaad... De finished product uh Martinism be a safe, professionally trained, sucka'al and business pilot. Man! As in all medodologies, de powa' is inversely propo'shunal t'de generality uh de medod. In oda' wo'ds, de mo'e detailed da damn medod, de mo'e powerful. It make no sense t'measho' man wid some micrometer, Amos wid chalk and den cut wid axe. Martinism be revolushun fo' general aviashun.

It be a restructurin' uh de interrelashunships between pilots, shorance, bankin', a-craft manufacturin' and flight farms.

 

[Matthew]

OK, NOW it's just getting silly.

 

[poadeleted1]

OK, NOW it's just getting silly.

Fo snizzle!​

 

[grattonja]

When I click on "MAG chooses home field" I get an error He certainly isn't going to be at LNS anytime soon. He apparently managed to get off on a bad foot with the Airport manager and board on his first visit to a board meeting.

He used to have "chosen" Diamond, Cessna and Cirrus as "his" training aircraft. I think the guys at Studentpilot.com made a couple of phone calls and those links went away. Wonder why that is?

Is there an active studentpilot.com thread on him again? The last time I was on the last thread they had, it had over 200 postings and had been read something like 15000 times. Others were setting up mocking websites with their own "aviation groups". It was LOL funny, but took over 2 hours for me to read.

Jim G

 

[alaskaflyer]

When I click on "MAG chooses home field" I get an error He certainly isn't going to be at LNS anytime soon. He apparently managed to get off on a bad foot with the Airport manager and board on his first visit to a board meeting.

He used to have "chosen" Diamond, Cessna and Cirrus as "his" training aircraft. I think the guys at Studentpilot.com made a couple of phone calls and those links went away. Wonder why that is?

Is there an active studentpilot.com thread on him again? The last time I was on the last thread they had, it had over 200 postings and had been read something like 15000 times. Others were setting up mocking websites with their own "aviation groups". It was LOL funny, but took over 2 hours for me to read.

Jim G

Nothing much new as of a couple days ago, though that is where I "borrowed" my blimp photo above.

 

[infotango]

Aviation is filled with scam artists. A website is easy to assemble.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

is he the ADIZ guy?

I thought he was the student pilot that gradually became aware of the older pilot's errors and helped correct them, or was that a different case?

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I thought he was the student pilot that gradually became aware of the older pilot's errors and helped correct them, or was that a different case?

Does "gradually became aware" adequately describe not seeing two F16s, or the flares both fired, but eventually seeing the Blackhawk helicopter?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Does "gradually became aware" adequately describe not seeing two F16s, or the flares both fired, but eventually seeing the Blackhawk helicopter?

Could certainly have done better and faster, no doubt. I guess maybe student pilot's do get cut a lot of slack sometimes, maybe too much but, they are still just students, with no actual PIC duties.

If it wasn't in the DC area and so damaging to the rest of us, I doubt so many would make such a big stink about the student. Although I do feel the actual PIC deserved what he got in punishment and more.

 

[etsisk]

Could certainly have done better and faster, no doubt. I guess maybe student pilot's do get cut a lot of slack sometimes, maybe too much but, they are still just students, with no actual PIC duties.

I guess that's the point - he was just a student pilot, and a not particularly aware student pilot at that - and now he's putting himself out there as the Savior Of Flight Training. Where's he get that? "I screwed up enough to become the best!" . . . don't think so.

 

[Frank Browne]

I seem to recall reading that at the time of the ADIZ incursion Mr Martin had about 30 hours of flight time logged as a student. While that is substantially below the required hours for a PPL, IMHO it should have been more that adequate for someone to recognize the seriousness of what was happening to him a LOT sooner than he did.

 

[SkyHog]

Troy claims on his own website that he was the one manipulating the controls. That makes him responsible, in my eyes

Q: Is it true that Mr. Martin, the company founder was involved in the ADIZ incursion that resulted in the evacuation of the White House, Supreme Court and Congress?

A: Yes. Troy Martin manipulated the controls during that flight, held a student pilot certificate at the time and was a passenger.

From http://www.martinaviationgroup.com/faq_2.html

 

[poadeleted3]

When I was a student, I trusted my instructor to keep me from screwing up, not the other way around. I don't so much hold the actual ADIZ violation against Mr. Martin as I do the way he's behaved while promoting his business and the way I think he denigrates other pilots and everyone else who doesn't want to do things his way. I don't think he knows enough about the industry, or aviation training, to be telling the rest of the world how it should be done.

 

[JRitt]

Maybe what happened is that the training Martin got had not prepared him to fly properly yet. Had he even soloed at the time of the incident? So now he has come up with a plan to better educate potential pilots and it is so good that that to take his class you must have lots of disposable income and you do not want to own a plane. He is going after the thrill seeker crowd knowing that what they want is to get a licence quickly. They will probably never use the licence after passing the checkride because for them the checkride is the goal. Because the students don,t fly after passing the checkride he will be able to advertise the hundreds of students that have passed through his doors and not one accident/incident.

 

[poadeleted20]

Troy claims on his own website that he was the one manipulating the controls. That makes him responsible, in my eyes

Then your eyes have a very different view than 14 CFR 1.1's definition of Pilot in Command. Hayden Schaffer was the PIC, and in full authority over the flight, including responsibility for the consequences. By any legal standard, Troy Martin was only a passenger.

Now, it is possible, as in Newberger v. Pokrass (CCH 10 AVI 17,118 (1967)), for a passenger to be deemed contributorily negligent in an adverse outcome, and in that sense, any third party injured by the events of that day (of which there appears to be none such) might have recovered damages from Martin as well as Schaffer, but from an FAR standpoint, only Schaffer was responsible for the conduct and safety of the flight.