Making a white-knuckle passenger more comfy

[MAKG1]

My wife is a bit scared of light aircraft. No problem with jets or with heights; it's specifically the small plane.

So, I took the natural course at first. Perfect, clear smooth days, very simple flights. Excellent views. Lots of ATC chatter because it's unavoidable where I fly. The idea was to get her comfy with normal ops in the aircraft.

This didn't work. I got my first clue when my son started talking about stalls (correctly -- despite his 7 years, he does understand what an aerodynamic stall is) in the dining room. My wife thought the aircraft was going to fall out of the sky!

So, I hit on an idea. With her consent, we took out a Warrior on Saturday, out to the Livermore practice area, to do simple (nonturning) stalls and steep turns. Altitude was kept over 4000 AGL -- intentionally excessively high. Coming in at high cruise, I pull the power and hold altitude. It takes forever for the nose to slowly pitch up. I stop the deceleration at 80 KIAS to do some clearing turns, then slow to 55 KIAS, and do a few more turns with the stall horn running continuously. Then pull power and do a clean power off stall. The wife can't identify when the stall takes place (it's quite subtle in that aircraft). Recover and try it again, this time dirty and descending. Same result. Recover, speed back up to 80 KIAS, do a departure stall. Point the nose uncomfortably far up, make an abrupt recovery when the stall breaks (once again, subtly enough that the wife can't identify when it happens). the wife remarks how wrong the sight picture looks prior to a stall (good!). It's true -- especially with departure stalls, you really can't see anything in front because the nose is so high.

So, then we do some steep turns. Va in this aircraft is much higher than in a Cessna (111 KIAS, instead of 90), but I slow it down to keep the turning radius down. LVK isn't far north, and it's a busy weekend. We do two right 360s and one left, at 45 deg bank. Wingtip pointed right to Lake Del Valle. Not great steep turns, but good enough. The wife complains of a bit of airsickness because she's been staring at the artificial horizon. So, we go back.

Basically, the idea was to give her a feel for the limits of the aircraft, so she would know we were far away from them under normal conditions. Preliminary indications are that it was very successful, but only the next flight will tell for sure.

Things I didn't try that I think I should have were an extended maximum range glide (say, from 4000 to 1000 AGL), and a power off 180.

 

[TommyG]

Same problem with my wife, which gets me frustrated at times, I tell her about all the great places we can fly to for day trips.
Last time I took her up, I got her after a lot of asking to take the controls. She did, I had her do some shallow and then a little steeper turns. End result she felt better but still not jumping to go flying.

Let us know how your experiment worked out.

 

[Henning]

My ex, the only thing I could do was keep it low and between the trees, climbing over fences...

 

[MAKG1]

Yeah, that approach (pardon the expression) crashed and burned for me.

Now, she says she wants to "go somewhere." Next week is vacation, and I'm considering renting something around Portland, OR for a flight over the devastated area west of Mt. St. Helens. We'll see how she reacts.

 

[DaleB]

Wait -- you're complaining now because she WANTS to fly somewhere? Count your blessings! If she likes it enough, you won't have to rent any more.

My wife seemed to get OK with it after the first flight. We even had a minor malfunction (nose gear strut leaked oil and was flat) that had us waiting for a ride home. Maybe that even helped -- see, something broke and we didn't die in a fiery crash. I had her take the yoke for a bit on the way up while I messed with a sectional; next time I'll have her do some turns. Anyway, she went from completely terrified and freaking out to talking about "next time". I call that a win.

 

[Jaybird180]

....and here I was conspiring with the environment to silence all turbulence, coordinate my turns and make everything butter smooth.

You sure showed me

 

[Big L]

My wife loves to go flying, but now she won't go without our 5yr old son. That way we all die in a firey crash, and not just us to leave him an orphan.

Anyway, my 5yr old son doesn't want to go flying with Daddy! When he was 4, he'd say "When I'm 5 I'll go." Now he's 5, and it's "When I'm 6, I'll go." On crystal clear smooth days, I'll ask him if he wants to go flying, and the answer is still always "Nope!".

Any advice on how to get your children to go for a ride?!

 

[Jaybird180]

Person I just met: See ya later
Me: Not if I see you first

 

[MAKG1]

Wait -- you're complaining now because she WANTS to fly somewhere? Count your blessings! If she likes it enough, you won't have to rent any more.

Oh, you misunderstand. The only thing I'm complaining about is that it will take some delay to do it. Even that's half-hearted; aviation has taught me patience.

 

[MAKG1]

Any advice on how to get your children to go for a ride?!

The back seat of a Cessna has a pretty good view for the little ones, but are you sure he can see out?

Perhaps he doesn't like the separation from Mom? Try putting both in the back seat. W&B will work just fine on a 172 or PA28, and if anything, it will make the ride smoother with a few inches more of aft CG.

If it's the usual "I'm doing something else now and don't like to change tasks," all you can do is not ask. It won't have any bearing on whether he enjoys the flight at all.

You might get an answer from him. It's unlikely, but worth asking; it will be gold if he knows.

Just grasping at straws. This isn't a problem I've had. My son wants to do the preflight for me, and tie up the aircraft afterward (I'm not comfy enough for that yet). He was ALL FOR the stalls and steep turns. I took him on my Piper checkout, so he's done them before.

 

[bobmrg]

My wife is a bit scared of light aircraft. No problem with jets or with heights; it's specifically the small plane.

So, I took the natural course at first. Perfect, clear smooth days, very simple flights. Excellent views. Lots of ATC chatter because it's unavoidable where I fly. The idea was to get her comfy with normal ops in the aircraft.

This didn't work. I got my first clue when my son started talking about stalls (correctly -- despite his 7 years, he does understand what an aerodynamic stall is) in the dining room. My wife thought the aircraft was going to fall out of the sky!

So, I hit on an idea. With her consent, we took out a Warrior on Saturday, out to the Livermore practice area, to do simple (nonturning) stalls and steep turns. Altitude was kept over 4000 AGL -- intentionally excessively high. Coming in at high cruise, I pull the power and hold altitude. It takes forever for the nose to slowly pitch up. I stop the deceleration at 80 KIAS to do some clearing turns, then slow to 55 KIAS, and do a few more turns with the stall horn running continuously. Then pull power and do a clean power off stall. The wife can't identify when the stall takes place (it's quite subtle in that aircraft). Recover and try it again, this time dirty and descending. Same result. Recover, speed back up to 80 KIAS, do a departure stall. Point the nose uncomfortably far up, make an abrupt recovery when the stall breaks (once again, subtly enough that the wife can't identify when it happens). the wife remarks how wrong the sight picture looks prior to a stall (good!). It's true -- especially with departure stalls, you really can't see anything in front because the nose is so high.

So, then we do some steep turns. Va in this aircraft is much higher than in a Cessna (111 KIAS, instead of 90), but I slow it down to keep the turning radius down. LVK isn't far north, and it's a busy weekend. We do two right 360s and one left, at 45 deg bank. Wingtip pointed right to Lake Del Valle. Not great steep turns, but good enough. The wife complains of a bit of airsickness because she's been staring at the artificial horizon. So, we go back.

Basically, the idea was to give her a feel for the limits of the aircraft, so she would know we were far away from them under normal conditions. Preliminary indications are that it was very successful, but only the next flight will tell for sure.

Things I didn't try that I think I should have were an extended maximum range glide (say, from 4000 to 1000 AGL), and a power off 180.

Wrong approach, IMHO. I see nothing positive coming from taking a white-knuckler up to do any kind of maneuver other than takeoff and landing (and the associated turns, climbs, and descents). No PTS exercises.
I would recommend against doing that again. I don't know what the power-off 180 would accomplish, but the extended glide will have some benefit.

I took my son up as a passenger when teaching stalls to a student. Need I say that he is not and never will be a pilot?

Bob Gardner

 

[Geico266]

Two words ... Mogan & Coke.

 

[MAKG1]

Wrong approach, IMHO. I see nothing positive coming from taking a white-knuckler up to do any kind of maneuver other than takeoff and landing (and the associated turns, climbs, and descents). No PTS exercises.
I would recommend against doing that again. I don't know what the power-off 180 would accomplish, but the extended glide will have some benefit.

I took my son up as a passenger when teaching stalls to a student. Need I say that he is not and never will be a pilot?

Bob Gardner

Bob, for the general case, I thoroughly agree. And I thought that for my own case as well, for a long time.

The idea came because she was verbalizing fears that could be demonstrated as wrong, safely. And it's key that she agreed to it with minimal suggestion. Outside that, it would almost certainly be a bad idea. The source of her fear had all appearances of being unfamiliar with what the limits were, and nothing else. With a fear of heights, for instance, this would have put a capital S on "stupid."

One thing I didn't do, and I'm pretty sure it was the correct decision, was turn the controls over to her. Not before she says she wants to.

The point of the power-off 180 would have been to demonstrate that an emergency landing can be accomplished safely even if the engine quits at low altitude. Of course with a warning about a possible slip to landing if needed to lose altitude, AND with explicit buy-in (no arm twisting, period). The point of a long glide would be to demonstrate how much time we have after an engine failure at altitude; that the aircraft won't just fall out of the sky.

A lot of this came from a long string of "what if" questions that she asked, not terribly different from things my instructor might have said. FYI, it might have made for some really good training for the oral exam or final phase check had the timing been a bit earlier.

I do think the worst this exercise will do in this particular case is nothing. There is some evidence for that, though only a few more "normal" flights will tell for sure. She said she was very comfy with my landing afterward. I wasn't. There was a fair amount of bayside windshear on short final. Nothing abnormal, but it required a whole bunch of correction, both for crosswind and for airspeed (~5 knots -- enough shear to get your attention). Wind was shifting back and forth across the runway. It wasn't the softest landing I've made, but float was minimal and there was no side-load.

I don't for an instant think she'll become a pilot. That's not the goal, and I think there would be a lot of issues with the medical anyway (an SI is not out of the question, but it sure sounds like a PITA under the circumstances).

My son, on the other hand, is showing all the signs of wanting his solo endorsement the same day as his 16th birthday.

 

[Mafoo]

My airport discovery flight is usually in a 150, however I requested the 172 so my wife could come along.

She pretty much sat in the back and Facebooked the entire time, oblivious of it all. I think as long as we are not upside down, she doesn't care one way or the other.

Good I guess

 

[Jeanie]

It seems to me that some people are afraid because of the unknown/what ifs. I think taking her out and showing her some normal edges of the planes ability and it's stability sounds like a good idea for her. Obviously you took it easy and explained -see, it just works like this.

Not knowing is a scary thing and now she has a better understanding.

Your son sounds like a treat

 

[EppyGA]

I'm so lucky, my wife loves flying with me. Due to physical limitations we can't really do legs over 2 1/2 hours which is fine with me and I just plan for that. We just finished an 8 day trip that had us in Illinois to overnight with my best man, on to Wisconsin for a couple days at Airventure, down to Indiana for race weekend and home yesterday. I would not have wanted to drive that.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Any advice on how to get your children to go for a ride?!

Go someplace awesome. It only took us 1 trip to Port Aransas, TX to get my kids hooked.

 

[danhagan]

My wife loves to go flying, but now she won't go without our 5yr old son. That way we all die in a firey crash, and not just us to leave him an orphan.

Mine did the EXACT same thing for the first 3 years post PPL. Then for the first time this year we went without him for an evening flight. Not sure why they think like that (the whole family has to buy the farm kind of thing).

Anyway, my 5yr old son doesn't want to go flying with Daddy! When he was 4, he'd say "When I'm 5 I'll go." Now he's 5, and it's "When I'm 6, I'll go." On crystal clear smooth days, I'll ask him if he wants to go flying, and the answer is still always "Nope!".

Any advice on how to get your children to go for a ride?!

Never had that problem. My son has flown with me and was my first passenger. Now that he is 16, he doesn't want to fly unless "we're going somewhere to overnight or eat ... and not for just a touch and go."

She does not like turbulence. So, when we flew, I made sure to minimize her exposure to bumps. .....

For any of my passengers that are a bit nervous, I place the ball in their court. I tell them, if they are uncomfortable for any reason, I will land at the nearest airport. That seemed to make them more relaxed knowing they had the power to terminate the flight.

+1 on spouse turbulence, but she has gotten better. Sometimes have to pilot isolate, but she figured that out recently and gets mad if she notices me flip the switch. She's a real talker and the preflight brief (sterile cockpit-hand up thingy) goes in one ear and out the other.

 

[drgwentzel]

On crystal clear smooth days, I'll ask him if he wants to go flying, and the answer is still always "Nope!".

Any advice on how to get your children to go for a ride?!

Simple! Tell him he's not allowed to fly. Mommy and I are going flying, but we can't take take you...sorry. Take one of his friends or cousins flying and you all go to the airport. Tell him he can't go, he has to stay on the ground with Mom. When he asks why, you ask, "Are you sure you're old enough?" If says, "Yea!" You think about it for a second and say, "Well...ok...jump in!"

Gene

 

[gkainz]

The only way I've managed to make my white-knuckle flyer wife more comfortable is to leave her home. Bless her heart, she tried .... 3 flights and she said "I can't do it." So, I fly - she does something else.