Make Offer or Call = delusional pricing.

[Henning]

I called a broker once and asked for the price of the plane. His response "Well, how much would you give me for it?" Game on and I wasn't playing, my time is worth more to me than that...

Do what I do on a job interview, "How much money do you want?" "Me? I want $10,000,000 a year plus full benefits and a company jet. The question really is 'What are you offering?'"

Always put the ball in their court, it's simple enough.

 

[Henning]

Maybe a Turbo Commander. I love my Aerostar, but I've always wanted a turbine Commander. It's the perfect airplane for me as it can do almost anything. It's a bush plane and a fast cabin tourer all in one. And coming from a piston Commander before the Aerostar, I know a lot about the type.

Will see, might not happen. My offer and sellers price are pretty wide apart.

Good luck, upgrading a plane in this market may make it easier to sell, but it doesn't seem to add to the resale value.

 

[Ted]

Good luck, upgrading a plane in this market may make it easier to sell, but it doesn't seem to add to the resale value.

Depends on the plane and the additions. 310Rs are doing well. Pre-Rs, less so. Aerostar I don't know the market as well, but I'd expect it to be worth something.

 

[stratobee]

Seems like the prices have crept up slightly for Aerostars, but it's still in the doldrums. And there's quite a few on the market at the moment, which doesn't help. But better than it was 2 years ago.

You never get back what you put in, but that's OK. It's worth it.

 

[Ted]

The Turbo Commanders are decent planes, but what you just shelled out for engines? Yeah, there are a lot of parts that cost that much. Expect $1k/hr operating costs.

All that said, 270 KTAS @ FL270 on 75 gph. Really not bad.

 

[Henning]

Depends on the plane and the additions. 310Rs are doing well. Pre-Rs, less so. Aerostar I don't know the market as well, but I'd expect it to be worth something.

'Something' without a doubt, his cost of purchase + cost of upgrades? Without a doubt not. "Buy your last plane first", even if it's a twin turbo prop you'll be cheaper off (and proficiency wise better) hiring a pro to fly with you until you meet insurance and competency requirements that doing three steps up the ladder.

 

[Ted]

'Something' without a doubt, his cot of purchase + cost of upgrades? Without a doubt not. "Buy your last plane first", even if it's a twin turbo prop you'll be cheaper off (and proficiency wise better) hiring a pro to fly with you until you meet insurance and competency requirements that doing three steps up the ladder.

Agreed fully.

 

[stratobee]

Turbines aren't cheap to run. But just like with pistons, there are ways to do it cheaper (not cheap). Compared to a high end twin piston, it's doable at around 1.5x the cost. And if you factor in that you now are saving on certain upgrades (FIKI, aux fuel tank for greater range etc) it can be an acceptable deal.

Training would be a must, of course. Turbines are all new to me. But - the deal is far from done, so it's way too early to talk about what might happen.

 

[Ted]

The Commander is an easy plane to fly. You'll have no problems with it if you go that route.

My old boss owns Byerly Aviation, one of the premiere Commander shops. I can put you in touch if interested.

 

[stratobee]

Thanks - I've actually been speaking to him at Naples Jet Center. One of the ones I was interested in was there, but it's now sold. He has another one that's nice, but it's too much for me. Don't want to finance airplanes if I can avoid it.

 

[paflyer]

Potayto - potahto. I"m going with snooty.

They should just write "Market Price" like restaurant menus have for the "Catch of the Day."

 

[mrkbbd]

My favorite ad I've seen so far has the seller saying to "disregard vREF" - out of curiosity I ran the vREF (I know not perfect, but gives an idea), he was over 300%.

Another airplane I was interested in had a call for price, as described above. I thought wow nice airplane, very close to the equipment I would have installed, I bet slightly above my budget, but I'll see...it was double my budget and almost double its most expensive competitor on the market at the time...

I found a lot of guys are 'selling' because their wife is telling them to, but they don't want to so they price at a point they know it won't sell.

 

[cowman]

Maybe it's just because I've grown up in the era of online shopping but when I look at an ad I expect to see a lot of information, lots of pictures, and at least an asking price. No asking price or little information = I'm skipping the ad unless there's something particularly compelling in it.

 

[rbridges]

Maybe it's just because I've grown up in the era of online shopping but when I look at an ad I expect to see a lot of information, lots of pictures, and at least an asking price. No asking price or little information = I'm skipping the ad unless there's something particularly compelling in it.

no kidding, you're selling a car or plane for thousands of dollars, and you don't want to take the time to include a few pics and some info?

 

[NoHeat]

Most people are bad at advertising.

How often do you see a car around town with a sign that says For Sale, and just a phone number, with no useful info such as year, miles, and price? Or a sign for a for-sale-owner house that doesn't tell you the number of bedrooms?

 

[docmirror]

They should just write "Market Price" like restaurant menus have for the "Catch of the Day."

Good one.

I'll have the lemon chicken, she'll have the Maine lobster!

 

[N747JB]

I had a similar experience when I bought my 421B in 2009, I found one that I liked, good times, ugly blue interior, but OK avionics, I called the broker. It was a bank repo, 2 years out of annual, but still worth looking at. It was priced at $198K, Vref was $160ish. I offered $160K with an annual done at an independent shop, cash at closing. Looking back I was being very generous! Anyway, he never presented it to the bank. I found the 421 that I ultimately purchased, from a good broker, with a reasonable seller. I kept it 3 years and the other 421B was still on the market when I sold mine!!

On those, I just send an email "would you consider $xx,xxx?"


They say yes or no, sometimes a number they would consider.

Doesn't take a lot of time, and starts them understanding reality.


Side note, I flew into an airport last month where a plane I offered on last March is still for sale. My offer was rejected as too low, by $2k, and, the plane was "under contract" at the higher price.

The plane still sits for sale, and the "under contract" BS was just that..

 

[Jeff K]

I made an offer on an aircraft ,that I believed was fair,went so far asto contract for work to be done to get it where I wanted it. The broker wouldn't even present the offer. Seven months later the airplane sold for 4k less than I offered,and the seller had put in another 5k in improvements. Go figure.

There isn't alot of incentive for a broker not to present an offer. They have nothing into the airplane, and the faster it sells, the faster they get their 6% commission. If you are off $5K on an offer... that's only $300 less commission for them. My guess is that was just a tactic after the seller rejected the offer. Then again, the broker may have been an idiot... plenty of brokers seem to be in the airplane space.

Copy the ads for the overpriced cream puffs then call in 6 months when the ad is gone and low ball the nutz off em. Won't work every time but is easy enough to do til it works.

I was doing that with listed price airplanes... it's actually how I got my second airplane. Never thought to do it on "call for price" airplanes. Good idea. I had a field in my spreadsheet for when I last called (after a rejection) and tried to call at least once a month while my search was in process.