Macroeconomics of GA

They have to cover the cost of getting an AOA badge for the person who brings it to you. :incazzato: :mad2:
Two things wrong with that logic. Badges are not needed at KAPA, and it would cost the same amount if we walked the 100 yards to pick it up...
 
Hell yes I remember those, looks exactly the same as my 1976 Civic 1200 which got 50mpg with me FLOGGING that *****. Now the hybrid Civic my buddy has gets the same, that's what we call "advancing".

It's also a bad comparison. Did you have airbags? Traction control? AM/FM/MP3? 180HP? Emissions control? In-car navigation system? A multiple speed automatic gearbox? (or even a CCVT?) Shock absorbing uni-body? Cars, like planes, have gotten fatter. We want the "options" on them most of the time.

I had someone make the comparison you just did using a stripped out Saturn to me once. I asked them what I'm going to ask you: would you trade in your current car and drive that old Civic? Everyday? Probably not.

Most people make this MPG mistake.

Oh, and yes the gap is part of problem. Airplanes have always been expensive, but compare purchasing power and you'll see how the gap affects it. This isn't class warfare, it's simple economics. You can go look at simple data to prove that.

Now, I'm all for class warfare. I've got lower tax rates now than under Bush2, Clinton, Bush1, and Reagan. Of course my technical purchasing power per dollar is lower than it was in years past, but my income has exceeded that loss. Basically, my "class" has won this round.

You can stick your head in the sand and go "meh, they never would've been pilots anyway" or "this is just class warfare" or any such silly argument. The trick is that in the first case you'll never find out. The second case? We've always had class warfare, and pretending it doesn't exist both ways is just an astounding case of willful blindness.
 
I bet you'd see a very non-linear liability insurance cost that nearly completely makes up for the cost difference.

Can't blame it all on litigation though. Why? Well in states with tort reform doctors haven't even seen their rate increases slow down. Well, at least none of the docs I went to school with or my wife meets doing QNXT rollouts.
 
Cars got automation to run down labor costs. Airplanes, not so much. Still hand made. They just don't seem to lend themselves to any sort of automation.

This is an excellent argument. Automation is a big way to cut costs. Another product that has been affected greatly by it has been electronics. In the 90's with SMT the average Pick'n'place could do more than a whole line of people pushing in PTH parts, with better accuracy. Add in automated Xray to check the solder joints after the item went through the oven and you've cut rework and QA costs too.

Maybe GA needs a factory revolution too.
 
I'm not so sure the insurance underwriters are laughing all the way to the bank. The costs are high because the risk of a payout is high. If there's no payout, the insurance company comes out ahead. But insurance works on statistics and averages. It's been a bad investment for me up until this point (insurance companies have collectively taken lots of my money). However, I would imagine that the one time I did need it would more than make up for the money I've given them to date.

Exactly! Insurance is a complete waste of money - IF - one is willing to play the odds! A few months ago we suffered quite a bit of damage due to a tree falling on the house. The insurance company did not nickel and dime me (although we did have a coverage issue - but that's another story). The payout from the insurance company was something on the order of 125 years of premiums.

Gary
 
You may have been "flogging" it, but you weren't doing zero to 60 in 3 seconds, or cruising at 80 all day long.

:no:

Yes, I was cruising it at 80 and with those 5:13 gears and little tires with no O/D, it would scream down the highway, no tach but it had to be turning 7000 from the sound. It never complained and I drove it from St Louis to Chicago like that and back. It would also cross mud bogs that stuck 4x4s and would not get stuck in the snow no matter how hard we tried.

0-60 in 3 seconds, no, probably more like 7 if I was light. It would turn a quarter mile in the upper 16s pretty consistently.
 
It's also a bad comparison. Did you have airbags? Traction control? AM/FM/MP3? 180HP? Emissions control? In-car navigation system? A multiple speed automatic gearbox? (or even a CCVT?) Shock absorbing uni-body? Cars, like planes, have gotten fatter. We want the "options" on them most of the time.

I had someone make the comparison you just did using a stripped out Saturn to me once. I asked them what I'm going to ask you: would you trade in your current car and drive that old Civic? Everyday? Probably not.

They were all "shock absorbing Unibody". Would I trade my current car for an old Civic? Sure, as long as it wasn't a CVCC, but then my current car is non existent, I don't own one, but an old Civic would suit me just fine.

I got my old one off the back line at the carlot (the cars that get traded in and you can't really sell to anyone unless it's someone who really needs a car for a few weeks to get to a new job till they get some pay checks and only have whatever cash they have in their pocket. Back in the day when you could buy a 2 month driver for $25) where I'd grab my junker drivers so I didn't have to take my Camaro out into weather I didn't want or when I'd have it disassembled and I drove that car hard and abusively trying to blow it up and it still lasted nearly a year before I lunched a rod out of it towin a 68 Skylark up a steep hill. I even drove it for a couple of weeks with no clutch master cylinder just rocking the shifter and jamming it into gear at stoplights.

Heck, driving as I do now I could make that car last the rest of my life. As with planes, just because they're bloated and fatter, doesn't mean they're better.
 
Heck, driving as I do now I could make that car last the rest of my life. As with planes, just because they're bloated and fatter, doesn't mean they're better.

All that "bloat" goes to creature comfort, safety, and emission reduction. Your old Civic (like my old Datsun 210) was a tin can. Despite your claims, they both went 0-60 in the teens. If you hit anything more substantial than a mailbox post with one, your health was at serious risk. Today's car has airbags, crush zones, door impact bars, a better restraint system, ABS, and a dozen other safety features that would allow you to run it into a concrete wall at 25 mph and walk away from the crash with ringing ears, mild flash burns, and maybe some soreness. In addition, today's car has real soundproofing, a far superior entertainment/nav system, and a ton more interior room. Beyond that, its emissions are substantially reduced.

Not that those old Hondas, Toyotas, and Datsuns weren't good basic transportation, they were. But the new ones are far better. I can't imagine driving coast to coast in one of those older cars. Shoot, the 210 would only go 85 mph, and I'm sure your Honda wasn't much better. Today's Civic is probably a 120 mph car and cruises easily (and quietly) at highway speeds of 70-80...
 
But, cars came off assembly lines in the 70's, too... So the comparison between the relationship of today's prices should still be valid. Cars have gotten boatloads of new technology but the prices have only gone up a modest amount. Airplanes have gotten quite a bit of new technology, but the prices have more than tripled AFTER correcting for inflation.

That's on account of what us auto enginerrs are, like, WAY smarter than them aero doods.
 
?!?!?!

So, they have a "this food will be contained within an airplane prior to being consumed" charge? Wow. :dunno:
Of course they don't say that but I can see that you have not looked at the bills for catering that goes on airplanes. It's not just one company either. Everyone does it. I think the worst I've seen is $1,200 for two fruit trays and two meat and cheese trays coming out of Abbotsford BC on the last day of the Olympics.
 
That's not the point. I have access to a square wave TIG, and when in practice can weld two beer cans together. Of course, I'm not an A&P, so I couldn't legally do the repair anyway. Not that I would even consider it. No sir-ee.

I was talking about aerospace welding inc in Minneapolis who will 'repair' exhaust parts often at a better price point than the manufacturer. The 'repaired' parts are basically new and some people swear that they are better than the OEM pars.
 
Of course they don't say that but I can see that you have not looked at the bills for catering that goes on airplanes. It's not just one company either. Everyone does it. I think the worst I've seen is $1,200 for two fruit trays and two meat and cheese trays coming out of Abbotsford BC on the last day of the Olympics.

So, does it actually say "this food will be on an airplane charge"? ;)

I have heard of Larry Ellison's $400 bag of pretzels...

I'll have to talk to Pat over at the Jet Room sometime... They do most/all of the airplane food at MSN.
 
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