Mac Book

Henning said:
Without a PC machine to gain experience on in her life, she will graduate college handicapped in the business world having to learn a new OS. I think you should get her a PC laptop with a full office suite to work in and learn to use it.
Click to expand...

Bwahahhahahaha. That's hilarious.

First, the "full Office suite" is available for Mac. Unless you're doing heavy Excel wonkiness, it's the same.

Second, you think the kids of today will be challenged by Outlook?

Keep up that kind of advise and you'll have one of them writing code in five minutes to do what you thought was "hard" and patting you on the head saying "Nice dinosaur. Cute! Computers are hard! You're funny old man!"

If you really want to help them, teach them keyboard shortcuts. If you never have to reach for the mouse, your productivity goes way up. And make sure they can touch-type. The rest is a cakewalk.

If they're not using computers at ALL, that's when they end up handicapped. If they're not using multiple types, that's not nearly as big a deal. If they don't know how to convert proprietary files into different formats for the dinosaurs who only use one product, that's a problem too. But they don't have to use the product. Just know how to make it work for the dinosaurs.
 
Fine, put the MS suite on her new Mac, just make sure she uses it and becomes familiar. She needs to know how to function in that architecture.
 
Henning said:
Fine, put the MS suite on her new Mac, just make sure she uses it and becomes familiar. She needs to know how to function in that architecture.
Click to expand...

She actually uses both, Henning. We have a PC desk top and a PC Laptop in the house that she uses a reasonable amount.
 
Henning said:
Without a PC machine to gain experience on in her life, she will graduate college handicapped in the business world having to learn a new OS. I think you should get her a PC laptop with a full office suite to work in and learn to use it.
Click to expand...

Depends what she wants to do. Anyone going into the creative world is going to need to know how to use a Mac.

And really, it doesn't matter. If you can use Word/Excel/PowerPoint on a Mac, you can use it on Windows. If you can't make that switch easily, well, you're probably not smart enough to get a job that needs 'em anyway.
 
p.s. Those SSDs at OWC are a touch overpriced. I think you can do better through Amazon. Maybe not. But OWC has a good/known reputation as a distributor.

The non-hyper-high end OCZ ones there look like they're $1/GB so whatever size you want, that's how many $ at OWC.

Once you have the one you like, just pop the name into Amazon and/or Google and peek at other place's prices. Watch out for places that say they're cheap and then charge $30 for shipping though. ;)

They were $2/GB less than a year ago for slower tech. By Christmas they'll probably be $0.50/GB. Who knows.

Both models of MacBook 4,1 were SATA v1 connections to the hard disk, so no point really in going to a fancy SATA III interface on the drive other than the chipset on the newer drives is probably a bit smarter. Can't really take much advantage of it though. Won't hurt though.

There's also another question when going back that far. If the new SSD isn't one with aggressive cache cleaning built in, TRIM support is a good idea, but... TRIM technically isn't Apple supported until Lion, and that machine won't run Lion, I don't think.

So... You're stuck deciding if you want to mess with it or not, and if you want to do it by hand or via a tool...

More info...

http://lifehacker.com/5803331/how-to-enable-trim-on-your-macs-solid+state-drive

http://www.groths.org/?page_id=322

Generally in your case I wouldn't worry about it. SSD alone will be such a significant performance increase that it won't matter.
 
denverpilot said:
p.s. Those SSDs at OWC are a touch overpriced. I think you can do better through Amazon. Maybe not. But OWC has a good/known reputation as a distributor.

The non-hyper-high end OCZ ones there look like they're $1/GB so whatever size you want, that's how many $ at OWC.

Once you have the one you like, just pop the name into Amazon and/or Google and peek at other place's prices. Watch out for places that say they're cheap and then charge $30 for shipping though. ;)

They were $2/GB less than a year ago for slower tech. By Christmas they'll probably be $0.50/GB. Who knows.

Both models of MacBook 4,1 were SATA v1 connections to the hard disk, so no point really in going to a fancy SATA III interface on the drive other than the chipset on the newer drives is probably a bit smarter. Can't really take much advantage of it though. Won't hurt though.

There's also another question when going back that far. If the new SSD isn't one with aggressive cache cleaning built in, TRIM support is a good idea, but... TRIM technically isn't Apple supported until Lion, and that machine won't run Lion, I don't think.

So... You're stuck deciding if you want to mess with it or not, and if you want to do it by hand or via a tool...

More info...

http://lifehacker.com/5803331/how-to-enable-trim-on-your-macs-solid+state-drive

http://www.groths.org/?page_id=322

Generally in your case I wouldn't worry about it. SSD alone will be such a significant performance increase that it won't matter.
Click to expand...

OWC is priced a bit higher, but they have a phenomenal reputation for mac compatibility and you know what you're getting. For somebody that doesn't source parts for macs very often, it's worth the price IMO to know that what you're getting is going to work in whatever it is that you're buying it for.

TRIM isn't required on most modern SSDs. It is, of course, better if it's on...but any modern SSD that I'd recommend has sufficient garbage collection that will keep the drive performing well.

For instance, on OCZ Vertex 4s garbage collection kicks off any time the drive has been sitting idle for at least an hour OR if it hits 85% capacity. Making TRIM a luxury. For somebody that currently has 33GB of data on a 128GB drive, neither are important. TRIM is only necessary to release sectors that have been filled and marked as deleted. Garbage collection does the same thing.

That said, all of this is just to pick nits. You've been correct on almost everything you've posted.
 
Henning said:
Kool Aid powder... That's the Magic Dust the 'Geniuses' at the Apple Store use. Obviously this wasn't potent enough to just sprinkle it on, you need some serious magic. First grab 3 packets of unsweetened mix, add them into the contents of as many Pixie Stix as the computer has ports and openings. Then while the rest of the family chants "Hari Apple, Apple Apple, Apple Krishna" she needs to blow the contents of the Pixie Stixs into all the ports and then slam the lid down while proclaiming as loud as she can, "Let the Devil spirits come out...HEAL!" Follow this with a baptism into a casserole dish filled with mixed Kool Aid and then have the entire family drink the Kool Aid.

If this doesn't work, you'll probably need an exorcism which involves the spraying of a lot of chicken blood and some burnt offerings.
Click to expand...



:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
jason said:
OWC is priced a bit higher, but they have a phenomenal reputation for mac compatibility and you know what you're getting. For somebody that doesn't source parts for macs very often, it's worth the price IMO to know that what you're getting is going to work in whatever it is that you're buying it for.
Click to expand...

Also, in my experience, OWC's customer service is excellent. They stepped-up to the plate and resolved to my complete satisfaction a problem with an external drive enclosure (miniStack v3) that had intermittent glitches.

- Josh
 
Can you guys recommend a matrix online that shows the various models of MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air (as shown in About This Mac), and their max memory, ease of swapping out hard drives, etc? I'm trying to decide between buying a used unit locally off CraigsList and upgrading it, or buying a new one, for my wife (her first Apple).

Will replace an older Toshiba laptop she uses, and will compliment her new iPhone 5 (has been an Android user for years).
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Can you guys recommend a matrix online that shows the various models of MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air (as shown in About This Mac), and their max memory, ease of swapping out hard drives, etc? I'm trying to decide between buying a used unit locally off CraigsList and upgrading it, or buying a new one, for my wife (her first Apple).

Will replace an older Toshiba laptop she uses, and will compliment her new iPhone 5 (has been an Android user for years).
Click to expand...

Troy,

I'd go with new for her first Mac - That way you're off the hook for support. ;) You'd also get to give her the full experience.

Try these, though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Air
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro
 
Most older macbooks with removable batteries, you can get at the RAM and the HD through the battery access area after removing a couple of small screws. Anything beyond RAM and Disk, you gotta take it apart.

Macs after the battery was made a non-user-replaceable unit, you gotta take the back shell off. That requires more screws and a little more caution, since you usually have to unplug some tiny connectors to get the cables unrouted and out of the way to pull things.

Uni-body, as they say...

I think I shared in PM with ya that I like the mix of the MacTracker App/website, and then hunting through iFixit for details on how each type comes apart. That seems to garner the best overall info... just hunting through photos.

And of course, if you're willing to pay Apple's prices for upgrade hardware, they'll put this stuff in at the Apple Store, or if they're not doing that anymore, ship it off overnight and have it back quick. Just make an appointment and tell 'em what you want.

But I assume if you're asking, you already know not to pay Apple's prices. It's kinda like taking a car to the car dealership... or not. ;)
 
They do have a number of free services at the Apple Store for new customers, yes. And classes for users.

Not sure if Kent was referring to stuff like that, or because they typically don't service older systems for free like they will almost always do with a new system that also has AppleCare on it.

They're a weird company. When I first got a MacBook I was so used to the do-it-yourself and walk-in whenever you want style service of PC retailers that I was incensed when I was told I had to "Make a Genius Bar Appointment online" when I was standing in the store with a dead machine on a busy day.

When I got over my anger at that "poor customer service" and followed Apple's procedures for a repair, holy mackerel did they handle it fast and well.

I've now had to do that a couple of times for various things and never once have I walked away worse off from the transaction. I've gotten a free refurbished iPhone once when I was just there for a software issue I couldn't figure out (Genius Bar guy inspected the phone carefully and said, "See this crack here?" a tiny thing I had never seen before, " It's a known manufacturing issue, let me get you a different phone."), and had a logic board replaced in a MacBook with shipping on their dime both ways in two days time, and a wireless keyboard replaced via shipping a replacement to my home overnight, and putting the dead one in the pre-paid box and sending it back.

If you do purchase new, make your own call, but I won't do a MacBook without extending AppleCare. Stuff happens. I have a small area where the aluminum is coming off on the palm rest area. I bet if I called them, they'd have a shipping box at my door tomorrow and the laptop would be back with a new upper case on it in two days.

And yeah, all of the above is available from other PC vendors now, but it used to be "Gold Service Contract" level stuff for businesses and wasn't much done for non-business purchasers -- for as cheap as AppleCare is -- by too many vendors until Apple pushed it down into user-land.

I've seen some stories where AppleCare purchasers were even "taken care of" when damage to a device was obviously caused by the user and wasn't a covered item. No guarantees there, but they track what you buy and know their good customers, which is also fairly rare in retail these days. I suspect some of the guy taking the time to find that crack in my base of my phone was from, being polite, not demanding anything, and having AppleCare, as well as a screen full of stuff on his side of the desk that he knew I owned via that reservation made with the AppleID before being able to visit the Genius Bar.

Pretty well run, really. That may be the types of things Kent is shooting after. If there's not an Apple store close enough, I've had zero problems with phone support and shipping either. They seem to always be helpful.

I truly believe this is part of what you're paying for in their higher prices, too. They have a margin to utilize a bit of it back toward the customer. When you're Dell and you made $50 on the whole machine after paying suppliers, you just don't have the cash to hire and retain great staff and toss goodies like "let's just replace that phone today, shall we?" back at your customers to keep them delighted.

I've got servers on big service contracts and get far lower quality customer service from HP... including incessant "please rate me" survey reminder calls for things like a hard disk replacement from people in India, over and over and over again.

There is no "I really don't care to participate in your survey, it's a hard drive for God's sake! Guess what, if customers are unhappy they're very likely to tell you." option, and you can just sense the desperation of the folks trying to raise their scores to keep those call center jobs. It's awful.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Thanks Kent. By full experience, what do you mean? Are you recommending buying it at the Apple Store locally? I was planning to buy online... Is there an "experience" I'm unfamiliar with?
Click to expand...

Yeah, go to the local Apple store. Call ahead, let them know you're interested in buying a laptop and that you'd like old info transferred from a Windows laptop and ask how to go about that (you may need the aforementioned Genius Bar appointment and some time to shop the rest of the mall while they do it, or maybe wait a day or two, I'm not sure).

To crusty old geeks like you and me (and Nate), it's a just a computer. So, you could spend a bunch of your time and money getting one, upgrading it, transferring things over, etc. and hand her a computer.

Or, you could go to the Apple store, where she'll appreciate the well-lit, cleanly designed interior, the friendly staff, and get a shiny new thing in a box. (Women like that kind of thing, ya know. ;)) Even the unboxing is part of the experience - Unlike traditional stuff-in-a-box where the expensive thing is in the middle underneath all the manuals, chargers, accessories, etc., Apple's stuff puts you face to face with the thing you've been wanting first. All the extraneous stuff is underneath. While Apple had a good user *interface* way back in the 80's, they finally figured out that user *experience* starts from the moment you walk into the store, and they have perfected it far better than any other company.

Since that doesn't cost any more than buying online, it'd be the thing to do! And it'll let you off the hook WRT initial questions/support and moving stuff over from her old laptop, too.
 
Cool! Didn't realize they'd help with moving over her files and such from a Windoze machine. Yes, we have a nice store nearby. We'll have to do that this December (23rd wedding anniversary present)...

Thanks, Nate and Kent!
 
Yup. Nothing puts a smile on a geek's face like someone saying, "I'll set up your computer... Go grab something in the Food Court.". Hahaha. Who wants to do what you do for a living all day when you buy yourself a new toy? Haha.
 
I'm no Apple fan boy, but that stuff they wrote about the Genius Bar at the Apple Store - it's all true, and in spades. Make your appointment on line, show up on time, look at all the did not plan ahead-ers waiting, and have your issues tended-to by devotees.

they fixed CJane up with a new iPhone when hers broke.... with extreme prejudice... at three (3) days old. It was a manufacturing defect. As in, the concrete the iPhone hit was manufactured to be way too hard.
 
And my month old iPad2 that I purchased from Verizon that decided to make friends with the parking lot but got all broke up by the experience was replaced at the Genius Bar free. No AppleCare involved. They treated me well!
 
You can go to www.crucial.com for memory info. It'll download a tiny and very harmless application that will provide detailed info on the computer and tell you exactly what memory to order for your specific machine.

Works on WinTel, also.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Adam,

Another vote to upgrade the RAM - Take it all the way to 4GB if it isn't ridiculously expensive. With that much free space, the drive should be fine and I would see if the RAM upgrade makes enough of a difference before spending the money on the SSD.

Also, let me reiterate Nate's recommendation of ifixit.com - They have excellent instructions for RAM upgrades and hard drive replacements for all Mac models, and they'll tell you what tools you need - probably a very small Phillips screwdriver and a T-8 Torx driver, I would guess - But maybe not the latter if you're lucky - Apple is pretty good about making RAM upgrades easy, I just can't remember what the deal is on that particular model.

Good for you having her use Time Machine to back up. One of the best things Apple has ever done, IMO, is to make backing up easy. Saves a helluva lot of grief when you need it.

BTW, I use a 3-year-old MacBook Pro for work every day. Yeah, I could use an upgrade, but I'm running two operating systems (gotta have Windoze for work) and I currently have roughly 100 browser tabs open, too...
Click to expand...

Go over to Sears and get two phillips, one size 00 and the other 000.
 
SCCutler said:
I'm no Apple fan boy, but that stuff they wrote about the Genius Bar at the Apple Store - it's all true, and in spades. Make your appointment on line, show up on time, look at all the did not plan ahead-ers waiting, and have your issues tended-to by devotees.

they fixed CJane up with a new iPhone when hers broke.... with extreme prejudice... at three (3) days old. It was a manufacturing defect. As in, the concrete the iPhone hit was manufactured to be way too hard.
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Apple's real win here is allowing their employees some leeway to use their own judgement when it comes to replacing things. I've had some third-party items that got exchanged for new-in-box stuff at the store instead of making me deal with the third parties on my own.

"Well, we can't really exchange third-party items outside of 14 days from purchase... How long have you had it?"
"About a year."
"Close enough - We'll just open this one up and send yours back in its box."

They know how to make happy customers. Most other companies could learn a lesson or three from Apple on that front.
 
murphey said:
You can go to www.crucial.com for memory info. It'll download a tiny and very harmless application that will provide detailed info on the computer and tell you exactly what memory to order for your specific machine.
Click to expand...
I just bought some memory for my iMac online. We'll see how adept I am at inserting it when it arrives, otherwise there may be another thread...
 
Everskyward said:
I just bought some memory for my iMac online. We'll see how adept I am at inserting it when it arrives, otherwise there may be another thread...
Click to expand...

Most of those have a door on the back for that. Pretty easy. Hardest part is finding a big space to put a towel down on so you're not scratching up the thing while it's lying face down on the surgery table.
 
denverpilot said:
Most of those have a door on the back for that. Pretty easy. Hardest part is finding a big space to put a towel down on so you're not scratching up the thing while it's lying face down on the surgery table.
Click to expand...
Looking at all the instructions it looks like the door is in the bottom of the screen. The instructions even mention putting down a towel!
 
Everskyward said:
I just bought some memory for my iMac online. We'll see how adept I am at inserting it when it arrives, otherwise there may be another thread...
Click to expand...
Update: Yay, she does it successfully without incident. :D
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Bravo! Noticeable performance improvement?
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely. The two worst offenders were Aperture and Parallels. They are both much improved and so is the performance in general. I went from 4 GB to 12 GB.
 
Congrats. Aperture is a monster since its dealing with an enormous amount of raw data, and Parallels... Yeah, Virtual Machines need RAM. Lots and lots of RAM.
 
denverpilot said:
I've got servers on big service contracts and get far lower quality customer service from HP... including incessant "please rate me" survey reminder calls for things like a hard disk replacement from people in India, over and over and over again.

There is no "I really don't care to participate in your survey, it's a hard drive for God's sake! Guess what, if customers are unhappy they're very likely to tell you." option, and you can just sense the desperation of the folks trying to raise their scores to keep those call center jobs. It's awful.
Click to expand...

Please tell me you share my pain....do you have to use their stupid ticketing system, DW, for everything you do? And do you enter IMACS and Incidents, and RFCS and everything just for stupid, basic tech work?
 
SkyHog said:
Please tell me you share my pain....do you have to use their stupid ticketing system, DW, for everything you do? And do you enter IMACS and Incidents, and RFCS and everything just for stupid, basic tech work?
Click to expand...

I refuse to do their data entry for them. I call the 800 number when I have 30 minutes I can have a phone to my ear while completely ignoring it, once in a while repeating myself (I have a dead XYZ, part number Y, serial number Z) until they figure out how to get it entered and the part on its way.

"Do you require on-site service, sir?"

Oh lord no, you guys aren't touching my server. I just need the part shipped. :)
 
AdamZ said:
She wants to go off to college in two years with a Mac Laptop that will last her through college and is fearful that if we get a new one now it will give her another 4 years and kick the bucket after two years of college, so I offered to get her a PC laptop to cover the gap ( because the macs are so darn expensive) and get a new mac when she goes to college. She's not thrilled about that idea and we were wondering if Like a PC can you just buy a new Hard Drive for a mac and pop it in and transfer everything over?
Click to expand...
I bought my niece a MacBook Pro when she graduated HS. It lasted her for her 4 years at college and one year of her grad school. I bought a MacBook Pro for Grad school and it is now 4 years old and still kicking, although I did upgrade the hard drive to a much larger one when I started using it for work. You know how I travel and this computer has been all around the globe. It lives in back packs and overhead luggage bins and has performed without fail for many years. I did buy my other niece a MacBook Pro when she graduated HS too. Hers is now entering her 2nd year in college and is doing well.

For college I would get her the Pro model, always good to have processing power to spare. I also own a MacBook Air 11" that I use for work travel. While I also run windows on it, I do notice it bog down on a few things. But I love the Air. When the Pro finally dies I may replace it with a Air 13" or maybe just an iMac since I dont' really travel with anything other than the little 11" Air any longer.
 
Last edited:
I will totally recommend with prejudice, for any portable laptop, get the AppleCare. Laptops do take a licking, and in my history of supporting a quite a few macs at work over the years have seen logic board, graphics chips and hard drive failures (drive stays in warranty for 5 years, I think). Everything else has about a $700 price tag at retail. Their designs are awesome, but I suspect there is just enough flex in the cases that any macs that travel a lot will have problems. In my experience, almost all repairs are done on the spot (refurb replacements) or within 2 business days. I did have a 5 day wait on a hard drive because of the typhoon. You can bring the mac to any store and they don't give you the horse-hockey about purchase dates, assuming your purchase from a third party. If it is close to a year, its covered, and they are very lenient on that. AppleCare obviously has an in-service date. I haven't tried AppleCare after 3 years, but I imagine they would find some way to take care of you in that situation.

Also of note, any upgrades to Mountain Lion via the App store cover all macs in your household for $20. Compare that to Windows 7 Home Prem, 3 PCs for $120 at best. Yeah, I have too many computers laying about the house doing menial little tasks....
 
X100. I don't think AppleCare is available for more than 2 years tho
 
denverpilot said:
I refuse to do their data entry for them. I call the 800 number when I have 30 minutes I can have a phone to my ear while completely ignoring it, once in a while repeating myself (I have a dead XYZ, part number Y, serial number Z) until they figure out how to get it entered and the part on its way.

"Do you require on-site service, sir?"

Oh lord no, you guys aren't touching my server. I just need the part shipped. :)
Click to expand...

Sounds like a pain in the ass. I just buy Supermicro or Tyan barebones and then stock our own inventory of spare parts. Something breaks -- grab the part out of our storage room, slap it in, and you're back in business. Need another spare part? Order one from Newegg in 10 or 15 seconds of work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top