Lycoming Factory Overhaul

Cruiser

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
246
Location
Ohio
Display Name

Display name:
Cruiser
Do all factory overhauls come with roller tappets now? As I understand, this is not possible in a field overhaul due to case modifications, but the factory can modify the older cases.

I know all new factory engines are configured with roller tappets, just not sure how they are doing overhauls.:dunno:
 
Do all factory overhauls come with roller tappets now? As I understand, this is not possible in a field overhaul due to case modifications, but the factory can modify the older cases.

I know all new factory engines are configured with roller tappets, just not sure how they are doing overhauls.:dunno:

Well if that's true, it's gonna hurt a lot of overhaul shops (unless they can send the cases in for machine work). If roller tappets are available, there is no way I'd do an overhaul without getting them. Never did figure out why they didn't have them to begin with.
 
To answer your question if Lycoming installed roller tappets in your original Type Certificate (T/C’d) engine this would be considered a major alteration. It would also change the data plate by dash number in some cases.

Engine overhauls can be accomplished to a variety of standards. They can also be accomplished by many different facilities, ranging from engine manufacturers, large repair stations, or individual powerplant mechanics. The selection of an overhaul facility can and does, in most cases, determine the standards that are used during overhaul. The CFR requirement in Section 43.13(a) is that the person performing the overhaul shall use methods, techniques, and practices that are acceptable to the Administrator. In most cases, the standards that are outlined in the Engine Manufacturer Overhaul Manuals are standards acceptable to the Administrator.

These manuals clearly stipulate the work that must be accomplished during engine overhauls and outline limits and tolerances used during the inspections. The only definition regarding engine overhaul is the word "rebuilt.

Rebuilt

The term "rebuilt" is defined in CFR 43.2. The definition allows an owner or operator to use a new maintenance record without previous operating history for an aircraft engine rebuilt by the manufacturer or an agency approved by the manufacturer.

A rebuilt engine as defined in CFR 43.2, "is a used engine that has been completely disassembled, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, tested, and approved in the same manner and to the same tolerances and limits as a new engine with either new or used parts." All parts used must conform to the production drawing tolerances and limits for new parts or be of approved oversized dimensions for a new engine.

A major overhaul consists of the complete disassembly of an engine, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, tested, and approved for return to service within the fits and limits specified by the manufacturer's overhaul data. This could be to new fits or limits or serviceable limits. The determination as to what fits and limits are used during an engine overhaul should be clearly understood by the engine owner at the time the engine is presented for overhaul. The owner should also be aware of any parts that are replaced, regardless of condition, as a result of a manufacturer's overhaul data, service bulletin, or an airworthiness directive.

The manufacture has the authorization under their T/C to make changes. If you decide to go to Lycoming check you engine data plate when you get the engine back. You may notice the data plate is updated to reflect the major change/alteration.

Second please understand there is a difference in repair and overhaul. What you want is a repaired engine from Lycoming back to new part standards.
 
To answer your question if Lycoming installed roller tappets in your original Type Certificate (T/C’d) engine this would be considered a major alteration. It would also change the data plate by dash number in some cases.

Not if the manufacturer says it is an authorized replacement part. your reading would make a new T/C every time the manufacturer changes the size or shape of any part in the engine. Rod bolts and crankshafts are an example. Or another would be if you removed standard steel cylinders and replaced them with chrome, the dash number of the engine would change, ? nope don't think so.

But, If the manufacturer wants to change the horse power, or any other thing stated on the TCDS, then it would require new certification.
 
Last edited:
What IF........ I had a data tag from a crashed/destroyed engine, and I purchased all new parts from after market parts manufacturers such as Superior, ECI inc, and others and built a new engine from scratch. placed my data tag on it and called it rebuilt as per 43.2

FAA going to be happy with that ?
 
What IF........ I had a data tag from a crashed/destroyed engine, and I purchased all new parts from after market parts manufacturers such as Superior, ECI inc, and others and built a new engine from scratch. placed my data tag on it and called it rebuilt as per 43.2

FAA going to be happy with that ?

You could certainly do that but since you are neither the manufacturer or someone authorized by the manufacturer to rebuild (zero time) their engine, you could only call it an overhaul (to new limits) and would have to carry forward the total time.
 
Could I give it a new log book?
 
Could I give it a new log book?

Good question, I'm pretty sure you can give it a new book (I don't really see why you can't start a new book at any time you please) but you would carry over the TTIS from the last book.
 
Good question, I'm pretty sure you can give it a new book (I don't really see why you can't start a new book at any time you please) but you would carry over the TTIS from the last book.

Yes anyone can start a new log book, it is the first entry that is important.

If you know the engine TT then it is carried forward, If you don't, then the first entry is "TT unknown" Time Since major overhaul, to new limits "0" IAW FAR 43.2


"TT" is all the recordable time from day 1 in the engines life. Factory or their authorized representative are the only ones who can reset the clock on this time.

Time Since Major Overhaul, anyone who can meet the requirements of FAR 43.2 can reset the clock on this one.

next question.. what does the first entry for a factory rebuilt engine say?

Anyone got one? read the first entry.
 
I have a factory overhauled engine in my Arrow. First line reads as follows; "This engine has been overhauled/rebuilt in accordance with the applicable Textron Lycoming manuals." It had a total time of 4053.2 hours and it came with a new log.
Ron
 
I have a factory overhauled engine in my Arrow. First line reads as follows; "This engine has been overhauled/rebuilt in accordance with the applicable Textron Lycoming manuals." It had a total time of 4053.2 hours and it came with a new log.
Ron

Well that shows to go ya that the factory doesn't zero time every rebuilt engine.

The Sad part is your engine may contain all used parts, but they may not be the used parts you sent in. Those nice new cylinders you put on 600 hours ago might not be the ones you have now. The crank that was in your core might have measured factoty new limits, but what you got back may be under cut past service limits.

The Factory will stamp your serial number on a new data tag and attach it to any engine on their shelf, ship it out, and tear your core down later and see what they can salvage.
 
Well that shows to go ya that the factory doesn't zero time every rebuilt engine.

The Sad part is your engine may contain all used parts, but they may not be the used parts you sent in. Those nice new cylinders you put on 600 hours ago might not be the ones you have now. The crank that was in your core might have measured factoty new limits, but what you got back may be under cut past service limits.

The Factory will stamp your serial number on a new data tag and attach it to any engine on their shelf, ship it out, and tear your core down later and see what they can salvage.

Yep, outside of getting the roller tappet cam, I can't see any reason to use the factory for overhauls. I wonder, can you just send in the case for rework to the roller cam issues?
 
Yep, outside of getting the roller tappet cam, I can't see any reason to use the factory for overhauls. I wonder, can you just send in the case for rework to the roller cam issues?


From Lycoming FAQs. http://www.lycoming.com/support/tips-advice/key-reprints/pdfs/Key FAQ.pdf

"Can roller tappets be retrofitted into mycurrent engine?
[FONT=Times,Times]No, large populations of existing engines do not possess a crankcase that has sufficient material in the tappet body area to allow the required machining to accept the new roller tappet. There is currently no Lycoming approved process to retrofit roller tappets in the field.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times]However, if you purchase a Lycoming Factory Overhaul, engine roller tappets are standard equipment with no additional charge."[/FONT]
 
From Lycoming FAQs. http://www.lycoming.com/support/tips-advice/key-reprints/pdfs/Key%20FAQ.pdf

"Can roller tappets be retrofitted into mycurrent engine?
[FONT=Times,Times]No, large populations of existing engines do not possess a crankcase that has sufficient material in the tappet body area to allow the required machining to accept the new roller tappet. There is currently no Lycoming approved process to retrofit roller tappets in the field.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times,Times]However, if you purchase a Lycoming Factory Overhaul, engine roller tappets are standard equipment with no additional charge."[/FONT]

Thanks, looks like it takes a new case, so may as well go with the 390 or 580 series engine.
 
The more I think about the more I am getting to the point of just buying a new engine from Lycoming when it comes to be rebuild time.

At this point considering the camshaft issues, that may be the best investment if you intend to keep the plane/engine for any considerable period of time.
 
The total time shown in a Lycoming factory overhauled engine log typicaly reflects the time on the data plate not necessarily any of the parts in the engine. The factory rebuilt log shows zero hours but just the same as the overhaul you don't know the time on any of the used parts. An interesting alternative to a very expensive factory new engine to replace most of the 150-180 HP engines is to do an overhaul using an ECI "kit" engine and replace ALL the parts of the old engine with new. The total time remains but short of buying a factlry new engine it is a practical way of having everything new. We've done a half dozen or so of them. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
 
The total time shown in a Lycoming factory overhauled engine log typicaly reflects the time on the data plate not necessarily any of the parts in the engine. The factory rebuilt log shows zero hours but just the same as the overhaul you don't know the time on any of the used parts. An interesting alternative to a very expensive factory new engine to replace most of the 150-180 HP engines is to do an overhaul using an ECI "kit" engine and replace ALL the parts of the old engine with new. The total time remains but short of buying a factlry new engine it is a practical way of having everything new. We've done a half dozen or so of them. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines

I'd be very interested in doing that. Can I get the roller cam case from them?
 
An interesting alternative to a very expensive factory new engine to replace most of the 150-180 HP engines is to do an overhaul using an ECI "kit" engine and replace ALL the parts of the old engine with new. The total time remains but short of buying a factlry new engine it is a practical way of having everything new. We've done a half dozen or so of them. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
Charlie,

How does the cost on such an engine compare to factory reman and factory new? I presume it's somewhere in the middle, but can you quantify it at all for an example engine?
 
Back
Top