LSA, will it work for me?

K

Kanan

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Display name:
Kanan
I'm new here, and new to the world of flying. I've always dreamt of flying, but it wasn't until recently that I decided to do the leg work and see what I was up against. I've done a bunch of research trying to get the easy questions answered, but I still have some left. I wanted to lay out what I found and see if it passes the sniff test with all you folks.

I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.

Since I’m concerned with economy and it’ll usually just be me flying, it sounds like LSA is the way to go. I’m flexible enough to be able to pick clear days, and no night flying. (Worst case I would just drive it.) I wouldn’t have any problem with the medical exam if I did go for a private. But since I’d be flying an LSA I’m guessing, is there any reason to upgrade to private?

I was looking at planes online and found this one for about $80,000: http://www.aerotrek.aero/lsanot100k.htm Not that I would actually get this plane, but would it do what I’m talking about?

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?

What if I want to stay a couple days is Colorado Springs for example, is there an overnight ‘parking’ fee?

Is this really an option to use as a way to get around? What am I missing here? These all may be stupid questions, but if I’m not that far off, then why aren’t there more people flying?


Also I'm 6'5", 240lbs. I’m pretty used to getting into cars and such that are a bit small, so I’m betting I can find something that’ll fit me, just wondering if there are any specific recommendations.

Thanks all!
Kanan
 
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Quite possibly, but we need a little bit information to be of any help :).
 
Hum. I'm new here, not sure what happened. :confused:

Here's what I originally posted:

I'm new here, and new to the world of flying. I've always dreamt of flying, but it wasn't until recently that I decided to do the leg work and see what I was up against. I've done a bunch of research trying to get the easy questions answered, but I still have some left. I wanted to lay out what I found and see if it passes the sniff test will all you folks.

I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.

Since I’m concerned with economy and it’ll usually just be me flying, it sounds like LSA is the way to go. I’m flexible enough to be able to pick clear days, and no night flying. (Worst case I would just drive it.) I wouldn’t have any problem with the medical exam if I did go for a private. But since I’d be flying an LSA I’m guessing, is there any reason to upgrade to private?

I was looking at planes online and found this one for about $80,000: http://www.aerotrek.aero/lsanot100k.htm Not that I would actually get this plane, but would it do what I’m talking about?

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?

What if I want to stay a couple days is Colorado Springs for example, is there an overnight ‘parking’ fee?

Is this really an option to use as a way to get around? What am I missing here? These all may be stupid questions, but if I’m not that far off, then why aren’t there more people flying?


Also I'm 6'5", 240lbs. I’m pretty used to getting into cars and such that are a bit small, so I’m betting I can find something that’ll fit me, just wondering if there are any specific recommendations.

Thanks all!
Kanan
 
Hum. I'm new here, not sure what happened. :confused:

Here's what I originally posted:

I'm new here, and new to the world of flying. I've always dreamt of flying, but it wasn't until recently that I decided to do the leg work and see what I was up against. I've done a bunch of research trying to get the easy questions answered, but I still have some left. I wanted to lay out what I found and see if it passes the sniff test will all you folks.

I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.

Since I’m concerned with economy and it’ll usually just be me flying, it sounds like LSA is the way to go. I’m flexible enough to be able to pick clear days, and no night flying. (Worst case I would just drive it.) I wouldn’t have any problem with the medical exam if I did go for a private. But since I’d be flying an LSA I’m guessing, is there any reason to upgrade to private?

I was looking at planes online and found this one for about $80,000: http://www.aerotrek.aero/lsanot100k.htm Not that I would actually get this plane, but would it do what I’m talking about?

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?

What if I want to stay a couple days is Colorado Springs for example, is there an overnight ‘parking’ fee?

Is this really an option to use as a way to get around? What am I missing here? These all may be stupid questions, but if I’m not that far off, then why aren’t there more people flying?


Also I'm 6'5", 240lbs. I’m pretty used to getting into cars and such that are a bit small, so I’m betting I can find something that’ll fit me, just wondering if there are any specific recommendations.

Thanks all!
Kanan
 
I feel like we are a bunch of people gathering, looking up, because others were standing there, looking up, and yet none of us have any idea why.
 
The original post isn't showing up yet for some reason. The poster is new here and apparently hasn't had his posting privileges activated yet. Or whatever has to happen.

Sorry Kanan. We will get on it. As soon as I can figure out how. LOL
 
weird if you hover over the title before clicking you can see a paragraph or so of a post. Vampire maybe? Can vampires get a medical and if not can they fly as sport pilots?
 
ClimbnSink said:
weird if you hover over the title before clicking you can see a paragraph or so of a post. Vampire maybe? Can vampires get a medical and if not can they fly as sport pilots?
Click to expand...

What does it say? Something about brains? Oh wait that is zombies nevermind.
 
Weather on it's way. There goes XC training this weekend. Why does mother nature hate me.

Why did the aviation bug have to bite me?
 
Did that work?
 
Post was in the moderation queue since he's a new poster and the post contained links. I approved it.
 
If you don't want to really use GA for travel, LSA may be the way to go.
 
Kanan said:
I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.
Click to expand...
As it happens, I gave it some thought, and decided that for living in Great Plains or Western States, LSA just does not offer the necessary speed for travel. A hop from Albuquerque to San Francisco can be done in one day in a Bonanza, but not in an LSA.

On the other hand, on May 18 I'm going to travel to Rocky Mountain LSA Expo in Denver... on an LSA. Yeah. What can I say, it's fun. BTW, it should be within your reach: http://www.rmlsaexpo.com

Note also that LSAs differ in their speed somewhat, or even quite a bit. Aerotrek is a slower one.

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?
Click to expand...
It works like that in most places, but not in major markets. The rule of thumb is that there's an overnight fee. Sometimes $5, sometimes $20, sometimes $300 (in New York). In expensive places, they charge a landing fee as well. It's not any different from cars, really.
 
zaitcev said:
As it happens, I gave it some thought, and decided that for living in Great Plains or Western States, LSA just does not offer the necessary speed for travel. A hop from Albuquerque to San Francisco can be done in one day in a Bonanza, but not in an LSA..............
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. My cousin and friend flew from Jacksonville, FL to San Diego, CA in 17 and half hours flying time in an LSA. That aircraft has a 600+ nm range at 120 KTAS. Many LSAs are faster than the old ratty 150s and even some 172s.
 
Kanan said:
I'm new here, and new to the world of flying.
Click to expand...
Welcome!

I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.
Click to expand...
Those are trips of 250-400nm. At typical LSA cruise speeds, that means the longer trips will be four hours or more in the air.

Since I’m concerned with economy and it’ll usually just be me flying, it sounds like LSA is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not. You may find the baggage capacity of LSA's rather limited for trips with more than overnight baggage.

I’m flexible enough to be able to pick clear days, and no night flying. (Worst case I would just drive it.) I wouldn’t have any problem with the medical exam if I did go for a private. But since I’d be flying an LSA I’m guessing, is there any reason to upgrade to private?
Click to expand...
Only the ability to fly at night or eventually get your instrument rating.

I was looking at planes online and found this one for about $80,000: http://www.aerotrek.aero/lsanot100k.htm Not that I would actually get this plane, but would it do what I’m talking about?
Click to expand...
They would seem to, other than the question of baggage space.

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?
Click to expand...
More or less so. Many airports charge landing fees of $5 or so for light planes, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering costs of light plane flying in Europe. The FAA has no fees at all for light plane operation -- they get a percentage directly off your fuel bill to finance airport development so it's transparent. At very large airports, or high-end operations aimed primarily at corporate jets and the like, there may be additional "ramp" and "handling" fees, but those are usually waived with fuel purchase.

What if I want to stay a couple days is Colorado Springs for example, is there an overnight ‘parking’ fee?
Click to expand...
Most airports also charge overnight parking fees of $5-10/night. Often the first night fee is waived with fuel purchase. For C-Springs specifically, you'd have to call and ask.

Is this really an option to use as a way to get around?
Click to expand...
Yes, with the understanding that there will be a lot of times the weather won't allow you to fly.

What am I missing here? These all may be stupid questions, but if I’m not that far off, then why aren’t there more people flying?
Click to expand...
Cost. Not a lot of people have the uncommitted disposable income to put $5-10K a year into their flying.


Also I'm 6'5", 240lbs. I’m pretty used to getting into cars and such that are a bit small, so I’m betting I can find something that’ll fit me, just wondering if there are any specific recommendations.
Click to expand...
Go find an airport where there are LSA's and try getting in them.

Thanks all!
Click to expand...
Happy to help. And again, welcome to PoA and the world of flying.
 
Kanan said:
I'm new here, and new to the world of flying. I've always dreamt of flying, but it wasn't until recently that I decided to do the leg work and see what I was up against. I've done a bunch of research trying to get the easy questions answered, but I still have some left. I wanted to lay out what I found and see if it passes the sniff test with all you folks.

I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.

Since I’m concerned with economy and it’ll usually just be me flying, it sounds like LSA is the way to go. I’m flexible enough to be able to pick clear days, and no night flying. (Worst case I would just drive it.) I wouldn’t have any problem with the medical exam if I did go for a private. But since I’d be flying an LSA I’m guessing, is there any reason to upgrade to private?

I was looking at planes online and found this one for about $80,000: http://www.aerotrek.aero/lsanot100k.htm Not that I would actually get this plane, but would it do what I’m talking about?

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?

What if I want to stay a couple days is Colorado Springs for example, is there an overnight ‘parking’ fee?

Is this really an option to use as a way to get around? What am I missing here? These all may be stupid questions, but if I’m not that far off, then why aren’t there more people flying?


Also I'm 6'5", 240lbs. I’m pretty used to getting into cars and such that are a bit small, so I’m betting I can find something that’ll fit me, just wondering if there are any specific recommendations.

Thanks all!
Kanan
Click to expand...

Hey, there's the post!

LSA is definitely a less expensive initial investment. Others here might try to say otherwise, but I could afford LSA but couldn't afford private...simple as that. It gets you flying! Just make sure that your time is with a CFI and not a CFI-S, because for some silly reason all the dual instruction time you have with a sport instructor won't count towards any higher rating if you plan to pursue one.

It seems like you're interested in buying an airplane? If you are, it might make sense for you to spend the extra money to get a private and buy a nice used 172 or similar. You can get a decent used 172 for $35-50k with a decently low time engine, then tack on a few extra thousand for the private certificate over sport, and you have yourself a few hundred hours worth of "free" fuel. Someone very well might find a problem with the one I've linked above (didn't spend much time looking into it), but that's the ballpark. This sort of savings obviously won't work if you have your heart set on buying new, though....

Baggage space will also be an issue in LSAs if you plan on spending any more than a night somewhere. My flight bag barely fits into the back of the Tecnam Eaglet that I fly, so anything much bigger won't work so well.

That being said, I'm a sport pilot and I love flying LSAs. The Tecnams are real joys to fly (MUCH more fun, if less practical for traveling, than a 172, which I've also flown). It's definitely true a lot of places that you can pull up to the terminal, park, run in and grab lunch while watching the planes come and go, then take off again without paying any more than your lunch bill. That's what I like to do with passengers. As others have said, some places have a landing fee, parking fee, whatever, others don't.

And welcome to PoA, and have fun! That's what this is all about, after all :).
 
jpower said:
That being said, I'm a sport pilot and I love flying LSAs. The Tecnams are real joys to fly ().
Click to expand...
What speed do you plan in P92 and/or Sierra? I presume that as a wet renter you always go for max-power cruise at 5100 rpm, so I'm curious. The only LSA that I have available is Remos GX, and that one has prop set for climb. It is basically a 105 kts airplane in its present configuration.
 
Light Sport works for me. YMMV

If the medical is not an issue (past use of the wrong medication, a flaky diagnosis somewhere along the way, you were crazy enough to think that seeing a psychiatrist might be a good thing, whatever) - then the advantage to getting a sport pilot rating are limited. You do save a few hours since the cross country is shorter and you don't have to do the night stuff, but you still need to learn how to fly the airplane. Note that you can get a private pilot in many airplanes that fit under the LSA rules (you need some radio / gyro stuff)- so aircraft acquisition / operating costs are typically not a factor in the cost of getting one ticket vs. the other. I would get the PP if that is an option - then you aren't locked out of something like a Cessna 120/140 or even a 150/152 just because they are over 1320 pounds.

Useful load in an LSA tends to be limited - that may be a factor if you are planning to carry an additional body with you. Do the math.

The aircraft you linked looks like a Avid Flyer derivative. There are a lot of variations out there. They mostly work just fine. I drive another variant - Merlin GT. I would go for the tailwheel version - not really any harder to learn (at least based on my experience) and avoids the problems that some people seem to have making a nosewheel to tailweel transition because there is less "unlearning" involved.

I would also point out that one can buy a used aircraft for less than a new aircraft. Many people seem to be unaware of that fact (really). I paid about $20K for my ride - it's a little rough around the edges, but it works for what I want to do.
 
Yes you really can just land at any of the thousands of airports and tie up fo free. Many have lights and are open 24/7/365

If you really do want to take trips of 250-400nm, you might want to look into the private pilot's license. You can fly bigger, faster airplanes. And you'll appreciate the ability to fly at night.

If you actually have the financial means to purchase an 80,000 plane, you're probably going to make a great pilot. Ha

A good used, bigger, much more capable aircraft can be had for roughly 30-40k. Like boating the economy has hit the used airplane market hard - some great deals out there right now.

Welcome to PoA and let us know any questions you have. If you haven't already, spend a hundred bucks and go take a discovery flight at a local flight school. If you need help finding one, i'm sure we can help w that too.
 
zaitcev said:
What speed do you plan in P92 and/or Sierra? I presume that as a wet renter you always go for max-power cruise at 5100 rpm, so I'm curious. The only LSA that I have available is Remos GX, and that one has prop set for climb. It is basically a 105 kts airplane in its present configuration.
Click to expand...

I fly the P92 Eaglet--haven't gotten a chance to fly the Sierra yet. I haven't done any serious cross countries since training because I left for college pretty soon after going for my ride. For both XCs in training I planned for 100 because my CFI had been up and it was pretty choppy, so we didn't want to push it. Plus, more flying never hurt anyone, did it? Smoother days of tooling around have yielded 110-115 indicated.
 
Kanan said:
I'm new here, and new to the world of flying. I've always dreamt of flying, but it wasn't until recently that I decided to do the leg work and see what I was up against. I've done a bunch of research trying to get the easy questions answered, but I still have some left. I wanted to lay out what I found and see if it passes the sniff test with all you folks.

I live in Omaha, NE and am looking for a new fun hobby and for some speedy and economical (personal) transportation to Chicago, Minneapolis and Colorado Springs.

Since I’m concerned with economy and it’ll usually just be me flying, it sounds like LSA is the way to go. I’m flexible enough to be able to pick clear days, and no night flying. (Worst case I would just drive it.) I wouldn’t have any problem with the medical exam if I did go for a private. But since I’d be flying an LSA I’m guessing, is there any reason to upgrade to private?

I was looking at planes online and found this one for about $80,000: http://www.aerotrek.aero/lsanot100k.htm Not that I would actually get this plane, but would it do what I’m talking about?

I’m also wondering about how this all really works. Can you really just land at (most) any of the 3,000 airports in the country, tie up for free, grab some lunch, fill up your tank and take off again, with no fees by the airport, FAA or really anyone?

What if I want to stay a couple days is Colorado Springs for example, is there an overnight ‘parking’ fee?

Is this really an option to use as a way to get around? What am I missing here? These all may be stupid questions, but if I’m not that far off, then why aren’t there more people flying?


Also I'm 6'5", 240lbs. I’m pretty used to getting into cars and such that are a bit small, so I’m betting I can find something that’ll fit me, just wondering if there are any specific recommendations.

Thanks all!
Kanan
Click to expand...

Yes. Aviation is a lot of fun, and can be cheaper than many people think!

If you are looking for fun, check out http://www.operationfly.com (transparency: I'm an admin there, and I run the site). It will get you to places you probably would have never gone to anyway just to stake claim to a few airports. At that site, you can search for all the airports in the United States that are public use. There's a lot of 'em.

I am considering going the way of LSA myself, as my medical expires at the end of April. Being a Private Pilot is great, but really, unless you need to fly at night or carry more than 1 passenger, there's not a whole lot of reason to go that way, especially if you don't plan on doing aviation for a living.
 
I would get a private license.

That plane you posted a link for (as well as many other new LSAs), it would be a cold day in hell before I paid 80k for that thing, 100hp rotax and all, maybe I'd pay 25k new for one, I just could not justify that price for that limited performance envelope and lackluster power-plant, I'd probably ether go the 6-9 thousand dollar route and get 2 gallon per hr ultra lite I could put in my garage... or just get a real plane.

So you want to travel eh?

Get your private (not that much more money then a sport license)
Get a used glasair, you can get I RG models for $50k, II RG for $80k

.watermarked_681939d9991f0cd3c5775ce1338557d3.jpg


Cruse 175kts, burn 9gph (pull +6/-4 Gs) all composite, lycoming engine.

Vs. the LSA at 100kts, rotax engine and $80K!!

Seems like a no-brainer to me


Here are a few for ya!

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=123026

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=68555

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=47586
 
LSA would "work" but IMHO you should go for private pilot (PP) because:

  • Same basic piloting skills are required for both.
  • While the hours required for LSA certificate are theoretically fewer, in practice not so much that it matters.
  • With LSA you have fewer airplane choices both for rental and purchase. And ironically, you can find much cheaper used airplanes requiring a PP than you can for LSA, often eliminating any small costs you may have saved by pursuing a LSA cert.
  • A private pilot can still fly LSA aircraft under LSA regs.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Get a used glasair, you can get I RG models for $50k, II RG for $80k

Vs. the [new] LSA at 100kts, rotax engine and $80K!!
Click to expand...

Once again illustrating that a used apple costs less than a new orange.

Jim Logajan said:
  • A private pilot can still fly LSA aircraft under LSA regs.
Click to expand...

A private pilot can fly LSA aircraft under P.P. rules as long as he/she/it still has a medical. After the medical expires you are then limited to most (but not quite all - just to make it more confusing) Sport Pilot rules.
 
The most annoying part for me was the prohibition on the night VFR for Sport Pilots, since N28GX is night-compatible. I returned from a few trips after dark in good weather. Haven't needed to carry 2 passengers yet, or do my own preventive maintenance, so those weren't so bad.
 
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I currently am pursuing my Sport PL. If you do go this route, make sure your CFI is rated to instruct for PPL. This way, you could transition over to the PPL with some extra hours of training. If you are planning on doing those longer trips, I would recommend your PPL. At 240 lbs, that doesn't leave you much room for weight of another passenger. If you have any baggage as well, you might be taking on less fuel to compensate for the weight. Which could mean more stops to get where you are going. If you train for your PPL, and your CFI can train you for your SPL, you could always transition to the SPL. You just need to take the check ride in the LSA. I personally do plan on sticking with my original route of SPL, and then transitioning to the PPL. The SPL works for my needs now, and I don't plan on flying anywhere over 150 NM away yet once I obtain my ticket. Either way you go, you will be addicted, you will love it.

The plane I am learning in is the Piper Sports.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
I would get a private license.

That plane you posted a link for (as well as many other new LSAs), it would be a cold day in hell before I paid 80k for that thing, 100hp rotax and all, maybe I'd pay 25k new for one, I just could not justify that price for that limited performance envelope and lackluster power-plant, I'd probably ether go the 6-9 thousand dollar route and get 2 gallon per hr ultra lite I could put in my garage... or just get a real plane.

So you want to travel eh?

Get your private (not that much more money then a sport license)
Get a used glasair, you can get I RG models for $50k, II RG for $80k

.watermarked_681939d9991f0cd3c5775ce1338557d3.jpg


Cruse 175kts, burn 9gph (pull +6/-4 Gs) all composite, lycoming engine.

Vs. the LSA at 100kts, rotax engine and $80K!!

Seems like a no-brainer to me


Here are a few for ya!

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=123026

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=68555

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=47586
Click to expand...

I have looked at the Glasair, and at his size, I don't think he will fit. I am 6'2 and 225 and I don't fit.
 
You can buy a late 70's Tiger with good airframe, engine time and avionics for around $55K. If he hits his head on the canopy, thinner, but yet still comfortable seat cushions are available, and easily owner replaced, which may make the difference.
 
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