LSA hits China skyscraper

RyanShort1 said:
Not saying it's a good thing that it happened, and sorry for all involved but that damage just goes to show that GA isn't the threat some people make it out to be.
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Yeah, that's about the smallest amount of damage I've seen from a plane crash. Even less debris than if it crashed in a field. From what the pictures showed it looks like that tiny LSA broke about 2 panels of glass.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Not saying it's a good thing that it happened, and sorry for all involved but that damage just goes to show that GA isn't the threat some people make it out to be.
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Yeah, I've flown a couple of different LSA. I don't think they would do very much damage to a well-built tool shed.
 
This incident seems almost certain to have been an intentional act, and it bodes ill for what little exists of GA in China. There will be an investigation, but don't expect much in the way of publicly-released findings.
 
Roger Wilco said:
This incident seems almost certain to have been an intentional act, and it bodes ill for what little exists of GA in China. There will be an investigation, but don't expect much in the way of publicly-released findings.
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They’re gonna gather up what they can of the pilot, and execute him.
 
Someone was having a bad day.
 
Roger Wilco said:
This incident seems almost certain to have been an intentional act, and it bodes ill for what little exists of GA in China. There will be an investigation, but don't expect much in the way of publicly-released findings.
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GA in China has been growing (as opposed to the USA).
 
Roger Wilco said:
This incident seems almost certain to have been an intentional act, and it bodes ill for what little exists of GA in China. There will be an investigation, but don't expect much in the way of publicly-released findings.
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An investigation? Awww, that's cute applying Western standards to a non-western country.

This is well beyond the local police as it hit a government building. No amount of Hong Bao is gonna fix this... although I'm sure the flight school, unless connected, is gonna end up paying.
 
pfarber said:
An investigation? Awww, that's cute applying Western standards to a non-western country.
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You’re right: only Western countries investigate their aviation accidents. I mean, what was I thinking to suggest otherwise?
pfarber said:
This is well beyond the local police as it hit a government building. No amount of Hong Bao is gonna fix this... although I'm sure the flight school, unless connected, is gonna end up paying.
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Whatever the circumstances may be, heads are already rolling.
 
Roger Wilco said:
You’re right: only Western countries investigate their aviation accidents. I mean, what was I thinking to suggest otherwise?
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They may investigate, but if it's damaging to state image, the results aren't released. China Eastern 5735 investigation results were suppressed.
 
Some of the commenters on Captain Steeve's YouTube discussion of this incident are stating that it has become somewhat common lately for Chinese citizens to engage in violent acts of protest due to their government's alleged abuses, and are speculating that this pilot had a similar motivation. The damage to the building was apparently minimal, as was the case in 2010 when an American flew a Piper Dakota into building that housed an IRS office.
 
Palmpilot said:
Some of the commenters on Captain Steeve's YouTube discussion of this incident are stating that it has become somewhat common lately for Chinese citizens to engage in violent acts of protest due to their government's alleged abuses, and are speculating that this pilot had a similar motivation. ...
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Not just lately, but perhaps the trend is increasing. My hunch that it was an intentional act supposes two possible motives: a private vendetta, or a political statement. The CCP will not make details of their investigation public, but they may find a way to spin the incident such that it furthers some internal objective. As I posted earlier, this is a very serious setback for GA policy in China.
 
Just casually watching this thread ... is there some reason we should be concerned about "GA Policy" in China, or anything GA related in China for that matter? I know I'm not.
 
RyanShort1 said:
is that conjecture or are you basing that in direct knowledge of the Chinese response?
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I have no direct knowledge regarding this specific incident, but I do have some insight into the GA environment in China.
 
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Roger Wilco said:
I have no direct knowledge regarding this specific incident, but I do have some insight.
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What insight might that be? Unless you know the people involved or saw what happened, you almost certainly aren’t hearing good information. I’ve first-hand experience with the censors on WeChat and Weibo and unless you saw posts about the incident within the first few hours, you aren’t getting information. The only thing any of us outside of China know is that a light plane flew into a building causing little damage until the fuselage hit the lobby of the building and started a fire.
 
davela said:
Just casually watching this thread ... is there some reason we should be concerned about "GA Policy" in China, or anything GA related in China for that matter? I know I'm not.
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I’m casually watching as well. Of note, China now owns Cirrus
 
Cap'n Jack said:
What insight might that be? Unless you know the people involved or saw what happened, you almost certainly aren’t hearing good information. I’ve first-hand experience with the censors on WeChat and Weibo and unless you saw posts about the incident within the first few hours, you aren’t getting information. The only thing any of us outside of China know is that a light plane flew into a building causing little damage until the fuselage hit the lobby of the building and started a fire.
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Sorry—post #27 did not meet this publication’s minimum standards of precision and clarity. I have edited it to better reflect the intended meaning.
 
Roger Wilco said:
I have no direct knowledge regarding this specific incident, but I do have some insight into the GA environment in China.
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Again, what insight? I’ve personally seen ultralights in the Yellow Mountain area. I’ve seen drones moving stuff around mountains. Everyone on the board already knows what the Chinese are doing with air mobility.

Roger Wilco said:
Sorry—post #27 did not meet this publication’s minimum standards of precision and clarity. I have edited it to better reflect the intended meaning.
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Roger Wilco said:
As I posted earlier, this is a very serious setback for GA policy in China.
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As no one here knows anyone in the Chinese government, no one here can say what will happen with GA in China.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
. . . Everyone on the board already knows what the Chinese are doing with air mobility.

As no one here knows anyone in the Chinese government . . .
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Just another hunch, but I’m guessing that you don’t know what “everyone on this board” knows, nor do you know who they know. I will also go so far as to predict that most here neither know nor care what the Chinese are actually “doing with air mobility,” at least insofar as GA is concerned. See davela‘s post above.

Those who do know, know that it’s wise to be circumspect.
 
Roger Wilco said:
Just another hunch, but I’m guessing that you don’t know what “everyone on this board” knows, nor do you know who they know. I will also go so far as to predict that most here neither know nor care what the Chinese are actually “doing with air mobility,” at least insofar as GA is concerned. See davela‘s post above.

Those who do know, know that it’s wise to be circumspect.
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Another non-answer. I doubt that you know. In the USA, under your PoA alias, the Chinese aren’t going to touch you. We aren’t going through the great firewall of China. There isn’t a need to be circumspect. As I said, discussing it on WeChat and other Chinese messaging requires discretion but that doesn’t apply here.

Roger Wilco said:
I have no direct knowledge regarding this specific incident, but I do have some insight into the GA environment in China.
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Again, what is the GA environment in the PRC? You said you had insight.

You can’t say how it will be affected:
- No one here knows what happened, including you. There’s speculation, but no data other than a small plane hit the building. It could be a suicide, as speculated earlier. An ATC controller could have done something dumb and vectored someone into a building (unlikely).​
-Anyone in China won’t tell you anything about the incident because they are being monitored. But you aren’t in China so you can share real data.​
- Without a root cause, the Chinese probably won’t change anything. A government and country doesn’t become a superpower making knee-jerk decisions.​
 
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Cap'n Jack said:
- A government and country doesn’t become a superpower making knee-jerk decisions.​
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Over time, maybe. In the short run, impulsiveness and knee-jerk reactions are quite common.

Cap'n Jack said:
In the USA, under your PoA alias, the Chinese aren’t going to touch you. We aren’t going through the great firewall of China. There isn’t a need to be circumspect. As I said, discussing it on WeChat and other Chinese messaging requires discretion but that doesn’t apply here.


You can’t say how it will be affected:
- No one here knows what happened, including you. There’s speculation, but no data other than a small plane hit the building. It could be a suicide, as speculated earlier. An ATC controller could have done something dumb and vectored someone into a building (unlikely).​
-Anyone in China won’t tell you anything about the incident because they are being monitored. But you aren’t in China so you can share real data.​
- Without a root cause, the Chinese probably won’t change anything. A government and country doesn’t become a superpower making knee-jerk decisions.​
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I don't believe this is entirely accurate. China reaches far outside of their own border to stifle and intimidate people. They have the means and the motivation to do it, the censors you encounter on WeChat are just one example of it. Their motivation is commensurate with the severity of what you are disclosing. Sure... If you're a standard white american dude who never travels to China, never wants to travel to China, sure, you might not have a lot to worry about.

Then again, I'm sure there are people with industrial and military knowledge of China who will not voluntarily spill the beans just b/c they're outside their borders. Especially on a message board where they have a history of posts and could be identified. More importantly, a message board where there is ZERO upside to do so.

For instance: I don't know diddly-squat about this particular accident. But if I did have some privileged information about this and knew it was pretty serious and significant for China -- in any way, shape or form -- I would not post about it on PoA unless it was a throwaway handle.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Another non-answer. I doubt that you know. In the USA, under your PoA alias, the Chinese aren’t going to touch you. We aren’t going through the great firewall of China. There isn’t a need to be circumspect. As I said, discussing it on WeChat and other Chinese messaging requires discretion but that doesn’t apply here.


Again, what is the GA environment in the PRC? You said you had insight.

You can’t say how it will be affected:
- No one here knows what happened, including you. There’s speculation, but no data other than a small plane hit the building. It could be a suicide, as speculated earlier. An ATC controller could have done something dumb and vectored someone into a building (unlikely).​
-Anyone in China won’t tell you anything about the incident because they are being monitored. But you aren’t in China so you can share real data.​
- Without a root cause, the Chinese probably won’t change anything. A government and country doesn’t become a superpower making knee-jerk decisions.​
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Gadzooks—I wasn’t expecting the Spanish Inquisition!


But hey, thanks for telling me how it is. Good to know that I can always count on PoA, where we don’t know what we don’t know, and too little knowledge is never a dangerous thing.
 
Roger Wilco said:
You’re right: only Western countries investigate their aviation accidents. I mean, what was I thinking to suggest otherwise?
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Spoken like someone who's never left the county/state they were born in.

How long did you live in China? I lived in Handan. You? No, a two week trip.com hotel stay doesn't count.

The VAST majority of Chinese people are just regular folks. I married one.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
As no one here knows anyone in the Chinese government, no one here can say what will happen with GA in China.
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My ex wife had several family members in the CCP... nowhere near 'the top' but to get into anything above low level paper pusher you need need to be a member. Other than filling out reports and some financial stuff they had absolutely no control over anything.

They were slightly higher that local police authority wise..... but that's not much either.

As for GA in China. I never saw a small plane in the air. You also can't get near airports (non commercial) as they are basically military bases. You have to be 'connected' (or $$$$) to even consider flight training. There is a reason why most of the people who can get training overseas, do.

Of note, business is done WAY different in China than in the US. My ex (a career loan executive at Bank of China) would ROUTINELY package deals worth MILLIONS of RMB on little more than a phone call. If 'Mr Lee' from the gov't land planning office called and said 'Mr Wang' will be over to sign papers on a loan she would just wait for the email and fill out the papers. As we rode around the city she would point out all the unfinished buildings that she wrote the loans for... they always seem to simply 'run out of money'. Wink wink nod nod
 
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pfarber said:
As for GA in China. I never saw a small plane in the air. You also can't get near airports (non commercial) as they are basically military bases. You have to be 'connected' (or $$$$) to even consider flight training. There is a reason why most of the people who can get training overseas, do.
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In a couple of weeks, I can post images of some light planes that I saw- we would consider them ultralights here. I saw them less than a year ago. I was quite surprised to see even that amount of aviation. I'm traveling now and don't have access to the images.
As for air mobility, I saw cargo drones and posted an image in another thread. They are showing off their passenger drones, although I can't say how much of that is fluff: https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202503/17/WS67d7cb55a310c240449db3e5.html
pfarber said:
Of note, business is done WAY different in China than in the US. My ex (a career loan executive at Bank of China) would ROUTINELY package deals worth MILLIONS of RMB on little more than a phone call. If 'Mr Lee' from the gov't land planning office called and said 'Mr Wang' will be over to sign papers on a loan she would just wait for the email and fill out the papers. As we rode around the city she would point out all the unfinished buildings that she wrote the loans for... they always seem to simply 'run out of money'. Wink wink nod nod
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That sort of thing caused (and still causes) a lot of headaches over there. I've no doubt she and you are telling the truth. One of my colleagues is "underwater" for such an investment, although her apartment was completed. Her investment is worth less than she paid. I've heard they are cracking down on that stuff, but I've only heard rumors. Their science grants seem to be based in some form of reality, with peer review such as we see here. See page 24 of the link to see the source of funding for this paper
 
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