Lowest Flight Level and Basic Med

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Luigi

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Luigi
Any basic Med guys out there ever ask for 17,999 ft to beat the FL 180 exclusion from basic Med?
 
You would request 16000. Or 17000 going the other way. And you wouldn't request it you would file it.
 
Well, One could file IFR 17,000 and perhaps need higher to top clouds, then one could request a wrong way altitude (which ATC has routinely issued me) of 17999 to top clouds and abide by Basic med Regs. Or I guess you could ask for VFR on top if applicable to cloud separation regs. and go 17500. In other words I am trying to use FL 180, and be legal basic med.
 
It's not a FL180 exclusion, it's 18,000' If you don't know the difference, you shouldn't be up that high anyhow.
 
flyingron said:
It's not a FL180 exclusion, it's 18,000' If you don't know the difference, you shouldn't be up that high anyhow.
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Of course I know the difference, What don't you understand???? I was asking if anyone ever tried filing 17999 to be able to utilize both the altitude and not break the basic med rules.
Seems like ATC might offer it to help Basic med pilots. Just posing a theoretical question,
No Need To Be Rude!
 
Luigi said:
Of course I know the difference, What don't you understand???? I was asking if anyone ever tried filing 17999 to be able to utilize both the altitude and not break the basic med rules
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It doesn't matter if you file a weird altitude. ATC is gonna put on an altitude that works in their system. BTDT.
 
OK, one could ask for a block altitiude of 16000 to 17999, would you get it?I don't know just posing a theoretical question to any ATC guys on the board. Or ask for the block from 16000 to FL 180 and not go to 180, but just slightly below.
Thank you
 
Luigi said:
Of course I know the difference, What don't you understand???? I was asking if anyone ever tried filing 17999 to be able to utilize both the altitude and not break the basic med rules.
Seems like ATC might offer it to help Basic med pilots. Just posing a theoretical question,
No Need To Be Rude!
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No, ATC assigns odd or even cardinal altitudes in 2,000 ft increments based on magnetic track. 17,999 would not allow a required 1000 ft seperation with an aircraft passing beneath you at 17,000. That and the fact the strip and the scope only has 3 characters.
 
Luigi said:
Any basic Med guys out there ever ask for 17,999 ft to beat the FL 180 exclusion from basic Med?
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I'm sure someone has done it, but at 17000 or 17500

Only people I know who use 17999 are skydive ops.
 
Ah James that is interesting. Just thought ATC and the FAA might offer an exception to accommodate basic med. On a VFR flight plan I would shy away from 17999 ( If I were a Skydive pilot) for fear of accidentally drifting up one foot and violating the class A
 
What I don't understand is why you put FL180 and mentioned flight levels in the subject in your post when basic med hasn't got squat to do with flight levels.

FL180 isn't necessarily the lowest flight level (as you intimate) either.
 
Alas, Basic med does not allow a pilot operating under same to file FL 180. I was ONLY WONDERING if in light of the changes afforded by basic med if a 17999 altitude might be created to accommodate Basic Med IFR pilots. So, yes it does have squat to do with FL 180. (they are only 1 foot apart)
Look, this is not worth arguing about, and yes, you are being argumentative.
 
Luigi said:
Ah James that is interesting. Just thought ATC and the FAA might offer an exception to accommodate basic med. On a VFR flight plan I would shy away from 17999 ( If I were a Skydive pilot) for fear of accidentally drifting up one foot and violating the class A
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Also real world that 499' isn't going to get you enough 99% of the time to be worth the razor thin margin of error for A bust and the consistent "you want what altitude??" from ATC
 
Depending on prevailing barometric pressure along your route of travel, you could file at FL180 (or even higher) and be legal. It's 18,000 MSL that's the limit, which could be higher or lower than FL180.
 
you could always fly VFR at say 4,500 then hit a massive thermal that bumped you up to 17,999, +- a foot or so, then ask for forgiveness. I mean, how can they prove you DIDN'T hit a thermal? fk, do I have to think of everything?
 
trenton said:
Depending on prevailing barometric pressure along your route of travel, you could file at FL180 (or even higher) and be legal. It's 18,000 MSL that's the limit, which could be higher or lower than FL180.
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With your certificate maybe, I would not want to argue that point, especially seeing it's not criminal law its administrative law (see kangaroo court).
 
So let's go further off point and say all altitudes should be GPS derived.
Look, I was just posing a theoretical question.
at FL 180 your are entering 29.92 in the Kollsman window. Therefore I guess that ATC would correct for local altimeter setting and still call it FL 180, or 18,000 ft??
Been a long day, I appreciate your input.
 
Luigi said:
So let's go further off point and say all altitudes should be GPS derived.
Look, I was just posing a theoretical question.
at FL 180 your are entering 29.92 in the Kollsman window. Therefore I guess that ATC would correct for local altimeter setting and still call it FL 180, or 18,000 ft??
Been a long day, I appreciate your input.
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If you file FL180, they expect you to be standard on the altimeter and showing 18,000 on the dial.
 
Luigi said:
So, yes it does have squat to do with FL 180. (they are only 1 foot apart)
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They are 1 foot apart only if the pressure is 29.92. Ron’s first reply subtly tried to point that out and he pointed out the refs don’t limit you to FL180 but below 18,000 ft. He’s not being rude or arguing, just pointing to the details.
 
Envision Martha Kings's voice when reading this:



In class E airspace, a basic med pilot is flying on VFR FF (not on an IFR flight plan) and ATC says, 'say altitude'.

The basic med pilot says 17,999.

No violation.


In class E airspace, the basic med pilot is enjoying a flight at 17,999 MSL. Who is the pilot talking to? NO ONE! The pilot does not have to be talking to ATC.

Again, no violation.
 
You don't think saying if you don't know the difference you shouldn't be up that high anyway is rude?? Again I know that Basic med pilots cannot fly above 17999
Pointed out the refs?? do you mean regs??
I think you are missing my point. I will say the thread title was not very good.
 
Luigi said:
You don't think saying if you don't know the difference you shouldn't be up that high anyway is rude?? Again I know that Basic med pilots cannot fly above 17999
Pointed out the refs?? do you mean regs??
I think you are missing my point. I will say the thread title was not very good.
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No I don’t think he was, but I’m guessing I’m being rude to you too. I’m not missing your point either, just agree with most that it is just not something that makes much sense and I doubt ATC even knows what basic med is or cares. Go 16,000-17,000 IFR or 16,500-17,500 VFR.
 
I think we finally have the answer to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. That number is 17999.
 
rsleeds said:
No I don’t think he was, but I’m guessing I’m being rude to you too. I’m not missing your point either, just agree with most that it is just not something that makes much sense and I doubt ATC even knows what basic med is or cares. Go 16,000-17,000 IFR or 16,500-17,500 VFR.
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That.

It's always a lot more work to be the oddball, just don't think you'll get enough of return for having to explain the whole 17,999 thing to everyone.
 
Luigi said:
So let's go further off point and say all altitudes should be GPS derived.
Look, I was just posing a theoretical question.
at FL 180 your are entering 29.92 in the Kollsman window. Therefore I guess that ATC would correct for local altimeter setting and still call it FL 180, or 18,000 ft??
Been a long day, I appreciate your input.
Click to expand...
Nope, incorrect. You change at the transition altitude which is 18,000' MSL in the US. At that point, you may or may not be at FL180. FL180 never exists below 18,000' MSL. It may be higher. 18,000' MSL and FL180 are definitely NOT the same thing.
 
Luigi said:
Alas, Basic med does not allow a pilot operating under same to file FL 180. I was ONLY WONDERING if in light of the changes afforded by basic med if a 17999 altitude might be created to accommodate Basic Med IFR pilots. So, yes it does have squat to do with FL 180. (they are only 1 foot apart)
Look, this is not worth arguing about, and yes, you are being argumentative.
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You're wondering if the FAA is going to create an arbitrary altitude that altimeters and transponders are not capable of differentiating, and saying that flyingron is being argumentative? :D

The answer is quite simply no. A) because it's ridiculous, and 2) because basic med covers "at or below 18,000." That includes 18,000' MSL, but not 18,001'.
 
This is painful. No Eric, basic med allows you to fly up to 17999, not 18000 feet.
 
James331 said:
That.

It's always a lot more work to be the oddball, just don't think you'll get enough of return for having to explain the whole 17,999 thing to everyone.
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Couldn't agree more
 
Would you want to be up there and keep your speed below 250 knots? Is there a slow lane that high?
 
Luigi said:
This is painful. No Eric, basic med allows you to fly up to 17999, not 18000 feet.
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Whoops, sorry about that. I was getting my information from AC 68-1, which now I see has been cancelled. Interesting that they still publish it on the FAA site, but without any note on the AC itself that it's been canceled. You have to look at the index page to see that.

Still... asking if the FAA is going to create a special flight level at 17,999' MSL for basic med pilots...

gdwindowpane said:
Would you want to be up there and keep your speed below 250 knots? Is there a slow lane that high?
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You wouldn't be the slowest plane up there. 250 knots is faster than most pressurized piston singles can fly, and is the high end of a lot of pressurized piston twins.
 
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