Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH)

jshawley

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jim Shawley
So in about a year I will want to take my granddaughter up for her first flight (she will be a little over three). She already can identify "pupullr", aileron, flap, spinner, elevator, stabilizer, rudder, pitot tube, "cow"(l), wing, strut, and wingtip (all with a tiny bit of prompting:rolleyes: ).

Of course, Mom and Dad are allergic to general aviation. But when I install her car seat in a (rental) plane, I would really, really like to anchor the top strap that comes with newer seats which are equipped with the LATCH system. Anybody have any suggestions/solutions that you implemented?

Thanks in advance,
Jim
 
there are very few airplanes with a structure suited for the top strap of a car seat. Do NOT use the little "coat rack" in the new Cessna's - it's nowhere near strong enough and all you'll get is a nice metal projectile in the event of a rapid deceleration.

The plane (ha ha) fact of the matter is that firmly attaching the car seat with the seat belt is as good as it gets. You might be able to attach the top strap to the seat itself somewhere but it won't provide a lot of additional safety. It's much more important to have the seat firmly anchored and to have the child secured to the seat with no more than the recommended "one finger" of slack in the harness.

I have the same problem - my daughter just turned three and she's almost 40 lbs. She's flown with us since she was about six months old. We always put the car seat in the back behind me and mom sits in the back next to her. She's big enough to wear a headset and will tolerate one very well.

Best Wishes,
 
TMetzinger said:
The plane (ha ha) fact of the matter is that firmly attaching the car seat with the seat belt is as good as it gets.

Concur. We put Holly (three years old) in her car seat in the back seat. We use the rear lap belt in combination with a mighty tight to crank it in there. Seems to work well.
 
Are there any cargo strap anchors in the rear? If so you might be able to form a bridle out of straps that would provide an anchor point in line with the seat.
 
I would strongly suggest another adult aboard during flights with very young children they are distracting and need someone other than the pilot to watch over them, I hate it when they start messing with the door knob at 4000'agl
 
I don't have any children nor do I have experience with car seats, but I've seen them. Can't you secure the middle bottom strap to the top strap by passing them under the plane seat? Connect a belt made of a suitable material to the middle bottom of the car seat, pass under the plane seat and connect to the car seat top strap.

Or buy stock in 3M duct tape. Lots and lots.
 
cargo strap option is a good idea, IF you can make it so the car seat tether strap goes straight back to it's anchor point. In the event of a rapid deceleration, you do NOT want any twisting or side-to-side moments entering the energy equation - you want the child to be decelerating in as straight a back-to-front manner as possible.
 
A few things...my son's seat has a BIG label on it stating this IS approved for use in aircraft. Says who??? I don't think it says FAA anywhere on it. Anyway, I agree that flying with an unaccompanied child is challenging. I've tried it a few times...some flights were good...some not so good. Obviously, it's difficult to tend to the childs needs while flying. I thought, oh, I'll set him in the front seat next to me, that way I can reach him. Not a good idea at all. Even with the seat all the way back, his feet could reach the yoke and with all his little might, he would give us a nose down attitude rather suddenly.
 
I believe there is something in the regs that state some industry standard to which child seats must be tested in order to be approved for aircraft use.
 
tonycondon said:
I believe there is something in the regs that state some industry standard to which child seats must be tested in order to be approved for aircraft use.

I think I remember reading this in the FARs somewhere.
 
tonycondon said:
I believe there is something in the regs that state some industry standard to which child seats must be tested in order to be approved for aircraft use.
The "aricraft use" provision is for use on an airliner. The issue is whether an adult smacking into the seatback behind the car seat will cause the seatback to fold forward with enough force to break the tub of the car seat. For GA airplanes, a car seat approved for a car is fine.

Edit: And somewhere around here I have a 1998 or 1999 letter from the FAA to back that up.
 
Ken Ibold said:
The "aricraft use" provision is for use on an airliner. The issue is whether an adult smacking into the seatback behind the car seat will cause the seatback to fold forward with enough force to break the tub of the car seat. For GA airplanes, a car seat approved for a car is fine.

Edit: And somewhere around here I have a 1998 or 1999 letter from the FAA to back that up.
Ken,
That would be an interesting letter. Section 91.107 has the following:
(3) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a basket or gondola or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987) must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. For seaplane and float equipped rotorcraft operations during movement on the surface, the person pushing off the seaplane or rotorcraft from the dock and the person mooring the seaplane or rotorcraft at the dock are excepted from the preceding seating and safety belt requirements. Notwithstanding the preceding requirements of this paragraph, a person may:
(i) Be held by an adult who is occupying an approved seat or berth, provided that the person being held has not reached his or her second birthday and does not occupy or use any restraining device;
(ii) Use the floor of the aircraft as a seat, provided that the person is on board for the purpose of engaging in sport parachuting; or
(iii) Notwithstanding any other requirement of this chapter, occupy an approved child restraint system furnished by the operator or one of the persons described in paragraph (a)(3)(iii)(A) of this section provided that:
(A) The child is accompanied by a parent, guardian, or attendant designated by the child's parent or guardian to attend to the safety of the child during the flight;
(B) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(3)(iii)(B)(4) of this action, the approved child restraint system bears one or more labels as follows:
(1) Seats manufactured to U.S. standards between January 1, 1981, and February 25, 1985, must bear the label: “This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards”;
(2) Seats manufactured to U.S. standards on or after February 26, 1985, must bear two labels:
(i) “This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards”; and
(ii) “THIS RESTRAINT IS CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MOTOR VEHICLES AND AIRCRAFT” in red lettering;
(3) Seats that do not qualify under paragraphs (a)(3)(iii)(B)(1) and (a)(3)(iii)(B)(2) of this section must bear a label or markings showing:
(i) That the seat was approved by a foreign government;
(ii) That the seat was manufactured under the standards of the United Nations; or
(iii) That the seat or child restraint device furnished by the operator was approved by the FAA through Type Certificate, Supplemental Type Certificate, or applicable Technical Standard Order.
(4) Except as provided in §91.107(a)(3)(iii)(B)(3)(iii), notwithstanding any other provision of this section, booster-type child restraint systems (as defined in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 213 (49 CFR 571.213)), vest- and harness-type child restraint systems, and lap held child restraints are not approved for use in aircraft; and
(C) The operator complies with the following requirements:
(1) The restraint system must be properly secured to an approved forward-facing seat or berth;
(2) The child must be properly secured in the restraint system and must not exceed the specified weight limit for the restraint system; and
(3) The restraint system must bear the appropriate label(s).
(b) Unless otherwise stated, this section does not apply to operations conducted under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter. Paragraph (a)(3) of this section does not apply to persons subject to §91.105.
I don't see anything in here that makes me believe it applies to airliners. In fact, it explicitly states that it does not apply to part 121 and 135. And (a)(3)(iii)(B)(2) shows where that language on the label comes from. Now, how they get authorization to put it there might be found in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 213 (49 CFR 571.213).

But for the most part it looks like a seat designed for cars will do the trick, as you said, as long as it has the label that Adam mentioned.
 
Last edited:
gprellwitz said:
But for the most part it looks like a seat designed for cars will do the trick, as you said, as long as it has the label that Adam mentioned.
As far as I know, the label in question will be found on every highway approved car seat EXCEPT the booster seats that do not have their own seat backs.
 
Richard said:
I don't have any children nor do I have experience with car seats, but I've seen them. Can't you...

Car seats have to be installed according to the manufactures instructions!!! Some car seats even have inclinometers embedded into the seat to make sure the angle of the seat is right. Several years ago Dr Chen talked about a video that showed why it is important to have the car seat installed properly. IIRC he mentioned that the test object is decapitated during the test using an improperly installed car seat. Many police departments run training classes on seat installation and will check out the seat installation in your car to let you know if it is correct or not. I think that stat I heard is that 3 out of 4 car seats are not installed correctly.

Make sure the seat is approved for use in airplanes. Make sure the installation can be done correctly in the airplane. Just to make triple sure, don't hit anything.

Len
 
If your aircraft has a cargo tie-down behind the seats, mounted such that the tether would be offset by no more than a 45deg angle to the seat, then you might consider using that. Otherwise, unless you can find a suitable structural element (unlikely) I'd pass on using the rear tether.

My 2.5yr old rides in a Britax (with LATCH), certified for aircraft use although as others in the thread have mentioned, I've always assumed that meant airliners.

I ignore the top tether when I belt her seat in. If you trust the NTSB, a top tether is, pardon the phrase, overkill. For a forward-facing car seat, I (in my non-engineering background, pretty much non-qualified except for being a stay-at-home-dad-who's-put-numerous-car-seats-into-numerous-cars opinion) think the tether is not vital for forward-facing seats. Not to say it's not effective, I was just much more concerned about using them for the rear-facing (infant) seats. You can get the seats belted in pretty darn securely with the LATCH, or even just lap/shoulder combo's alone if you know what you're doing. The tether really comes into its own in the rear-facing seats, which I wouldn't even use without a tether strap.

My kids are my most precious cargo. Heck, they're my job! I don't take risks flying, and I sure as Hades wouldn't take risks with the girls in the plane. I feel very comfortable strapping my daughter's carseat into the rear of the Sundowner using only the lap/shoulder combo, without the tether.

However, YMMV -- don't let some online bozo whom you don't know from a kick in the head tell you what to do with your grandchild!!

Good luck. My girls LOVE flying, after only 2 flights. The 5yr old was onboard (pardon pun) immediately; it took both flights to get the 2.5yr old on board but given that she cried when we told her we had to drive home from the airport, flying was all done, I think I've got two aviatrixes in the making.

If you think it would help, PM me and I'd be happy to talk to the parents. My wife, the one who was so mental about picking carseats with tethers, never even batted an eye about putting one in the 'Downer without a tether.
 
Thanks to all of you for your input! Much to think about. Most of my concern centered around the age of the planes I would most likely rent, meaning no shoulder strap (C150)--leading to issues with the seat remaining upright; further, how would the seat assy. behave with only a lap belt i.e. whether it would even remain in the seat or roll forward out of the belt anyway, and finally, force vectors (thinking of the 45 deg issue) regarding the top tether. By the way, she knows, at 26 months, the difference between the rudder and the elevator! :)).

Again, thanks for all information. I'm going to continue pondering means of safely taking her up.

BTW, FlyersFan, I am pondering whether we might get around to looking at Sundowners when (if) we can afford our own plane--depends on just what those retirement checks look like in about a year. ;-)
 
Hurray!

Don't mention your interest in the Sundowner too loudly - the Grumman Gang might be listening!:D
 
And to add to your post about rental planes, I had the good fortune to rent new (3-5yr old planes) when I was renting. I never stopped to think about how a more typical rental might be equipped. I've seen some clapped out 150's and, while I'm sure they're great for training, it would give me pause to try to put a car seat into them. I was assuming the presence of a good lap/shoulder combo (non-frayed).

Also, you made me think more about auto vs aircraft installs. I think you're right -- even with modest bank angles a rear tether could make a real difference in seat security. Still, they are designed with unusual attitudes in mind, just of the automotive variety. I wouldn't take the girls up and do aerobatics!!!!!
 
One suggestion, you might want to make sure everything fits. I was going to take my 18 month old daughter flying this weekend in a 152. Once I got the seat in the plane (a big Britax one), I found that I could move the ailerons and pull back on the yoke, but not both at the same time. :mad:

As an aside, I don't think there is anything in the FAR that requires a car seat. (Just talking regs, not safety).
 
While that's true - in a crash she'll probably die. It's been well demonstrated that an adult can not restrain a 20lb mass in an impact as slow as 30 Mph.

Put the kid in a restraint.
 
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