Lowballers

A

Apache123

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
546
Location
Lake Forest, IL
Display Name
Hey, Steve!
Home Airfield
KJOT/KUGN
I decided to start counting after the third one, I've had 9 conversations that have gone like this:

"Hi I'm calling/emailing about the Apache"
"Hi there, <insert copy & paste response>"
"Yeah, that's a really great deal. I'll give you $(5,000~8,000)."
"./sigh <click>"

:mad2:
 
Unless you've stated in your ad that you're firm on the price, you can't blame someone for offering something other than your listed price. They probably don't expect to you bite, but want to low to kick off negotiations.
 
bqmassey said:
Unless you've stated in your ad that you're firm on the price, you can't blame someone for offering something other than your listed price. They probably don't expect to you bite, but want to low to kick off negotiations.
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Indeed, but we're not talking about someone offering five grand less than asking, these are people offering five grand total. I just don't get it. =P
 
Who's to say what it's worth? When accused of making a low-ball offer I simply respond that the seller has a high-ball asking price and I'm just looking for a number we can both live with.

Fact is, the spread between ask and actual sales price is much greater than most probably assume. Further compound the equation with the knowledge that airplane prices have dropped by 30-40% since 2007, and it should be no surprise that low offers are even more common than before. And after an airplane has been advertised for a while, it gets even worse.

Just ask the guy for the price he would have asked if he were selling it.
Apache123 said:
Indeed, but we're not talking about someone offering five grand less than asking, these are people offering five grand total. I just don't get it. =P
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Apache123 said:
Indeed, but we're not talking about someone offering five grand less than asking, these are people offering five grand total. I just don't get it. =P
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What's not to get? There are a lot of desperate sellers out there who might jump on ANY offer right now. The people calling you are trolling for desperate people in hopes of scoring a good deal.

You aren't one of the desperate. This is a good thing.
 
Apache123 said:
I decided to start counting after the third one, I've had 9 conversations that have gone like this:

"Hi I'm calling/emailing about the Apache"
"Hi there, <insert copy & paste response>"
"Yeah, that's a really great deal. I'll give you $(5,000~8,000)."
"./sigh <click>"

:mad2:
Click to expand...
Quite frankly if you hung up on me after I made a offer without so much as a no that's too low I'd never deal with you again.
 
wabower said:
Just ask the guy for the price he would have asked if he were selling it.
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That sounds like a good idea - but it presumes an honest demeaner. I doubt you can be in that mental state when you are in the process of making a rip-off offer.
 
Jay Honeck said:
What's not to get? There are a lot of desperate sellers out there who might jump on ANY offer right now. The people calling you are trolling for desperate people in hopes of scoring a good deal.

You aren't one of the desperate. This is a good thing.
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Indeed. I guess I didn't think of it from the angle that some are in a situation desperate enough to sell for fast-cash.
 
I'll go 9 but you're going to have to put some undercoating on it.

I'm in the process of both buying and selling a plane at the moment. Let me tell you, plenty of sellers willing to take 60% of asking price right now. Hell I threw an offer of a plane 33% less than asking, seller held out, Called me back a week later and decided to accept. I told him I was already in the middle of another deal he lowered it even more!

I have a nice example of an older Cherokee for sale. It's 50 years old so isn't new but I've dumped 12K into it in the past couple of years making sure it was solid and somewhat good looking (new interior, new gyros, new CDIs, KLN89B IFR certified, new mags, nice nav/comm system, all new hoses, new filters, new baffling, new tires, new cables, basically everything I couldn't put a date on in the log book got replaced etc.. etc.. etc..) Decent looking inside and out, nice radio stack for the plane, flown regularly, very mechanically sound with a low/mid time engine and not so much as an email and listed in 6 places. The market is BAAAD right now.
 
jtheune said:
Quite frankly if you hung up on me after I made a offer without so much as a no that's too low I'd never deal with you again.
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If you offered 78% less than my asking price, I don't dealing with you again would be something I would worry about.
 
I have put more into Fat Albert in new parts than he cost to buy...
That makes zero difference to his market value today - they are getting the same number for junk airplanes (really dangerous) as what I have been offered for a well maintained and solid airplane...

He is not for sale at the current market price and when he is it will (likely) be as parts...
I flew him this morning shortly after dawn... What a nice old airplane, just a pleasure to fly...
 
Price negotiations are funny things, a very big percentage is psychological and the perception of being insulted. Its a natural thing. A lot of folks say they have a firm price, thats ok but in the world of negotiation thats called a bulwark settlement ie I'll offer you X and not a penny more or I'll take X and not a penny less. Those types of settlements don't work as well as when the negotiation process is open. Psychologically people feel the need for a victory if that means paying $1000 less than asking or getting $1000 more than that offer thats all thats needed. Its just the idea that the other party gave an inch its often an issue of respect.

In negotiations when someone lowballed me, I'd be hesitatant to counter because I felt it was negotiating against myself ie I demand 50K and they offer 2K. I've felt that was a way to get me to keep lowering my price without having a meaningful offer made. On the other hand if I asked for 50K and they offered 1K I might comedown to 47,500 and see where they come up to. If its 2K they aren't serous and your done if its 12K then your moving in the right direction and you can ALWAYS stop comming down when ever you want.
 
At $5K they may be looking to part it out.:yikes: In the car business we have all kinds of calls/email like that usually on hot cars like Shelby Mustangs or Raptor F-150's, they are doing us a favor by offering us a small profit on a vehicle so they can sell it for a large profit. :rolleyes:
 
jtheune said:
Quite frankly if you hung up on me after I made a offer without so much as a no that's too low I'd never deal with you again.
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If he hung up on you to begin with, I don't think you're in any danger of doing business with him! :rofl:
 
You might try putting a note about accepting 'reasonable' offers in the ad and see if that makes a difference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Why get emotional about a business deal? If you don't like the offer just say so and end the conversation politely. Remember the saying, "it is only business".
 
Apache123 said:
I decided to start counting after the third one, I've had 9 conversations that have gone like this:

"Hi I'm calling/emailing about the Apache"
"Hi there, <insert copy & paste response>"
"Yeah, that's a really great deal. I'll give you $(5,000~8,000)."
"./sigh <click>"

:mad2:
Click to expand...
It's their nickel (or dime, or quarter, or whatever a call costs these days). At least they didn't put you through sending copies of logs, or dragging you out to look at the plane, or whatever, before they made that offer. Like Gordon told Bud (and Bud later quoted back to Gordon) -- "Never get emotional about a stock." Or airplanes, either, when you're buying or selling.
 
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I like to ask people how they support their proposed valuation. Is it market comps, replacement costs, part value, market trends, dearth of buyers, etc. You can learn a lot about how they are approaching the process.

Also, If they have a well thought out valuation it shows integrity in the thought process. If they can't justify the valuation, then you should be prepared to justify one and ask them to come back when they've done more homework.
 
Re-list if for 50k, that way when someone offers you 23k you can take it.
 
When I get one of those lowball offers (usually through craigslist) I respond with an asking price increase.
 
Jay Honeck said:
What's not to get? There are a lot of desperate sellers out there who might jump on ANY offer right now. The people calling you are trolling for desperate people in hopes of scoring a good deal.

You aren't one of the desperate. This is a good thing.
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This is my favorite answer. Followed by the one that said at least they didn't have you copy and mail logs or make a trip to meet them before getting their low offer. Just be glad you are not one of the desperate owners that may have to accept one of those low offers.

I doubt I could get a third of what I have in my plane these days so I just count myself lucky that I love it and don't have to sell it.
 
Mini hijack (sort of): is there some percentage that people normally offer of an asking price? For example, if you were to go buy a $38k airplane that is priced right (not asking $60k for a 1960s 172 with a run-out engine, for example) and is as advertised, what would you offer?
 
jpower said:
Mini hijack (sort of): is there some percentage that people normally offer of an asking price? For example, if you were to go buy a $38k airplane that is priced right (not asking $60k for a 1960s 172 with a run-out engine, for example) and is as advertised, what would you offer?
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A very long time ago, someone told me that for a used car in a private sale, one should offer 60% of the asking price. Beyond that, :dunno: I guess maybe you should offer what it's worth to you and see what happens.

However, to get an idea of whether or not either your offer or their ask is realistic, you might do some research on aircraft values, both retail and wholesale. There are a lot of sources for that, and while they aren't always that accurate as predictors for what you can get for your plane or what someone else will take for their plane, at least you'll have a general idea of how far from the plate the fences are.

And remember what Gordon said to Bud (see above).
 
When I get a low ball offer, I politely counter with the asking price. That sends the message that I am not going to negotiate with someone not negotiating in GOOD FAITH, but still leaves the opportunity for a counter offer.

If the person then counters with a more reasonable offer, the negotiations will begin in ernest. If you're a seller, have a firm strike price in your mind that you won't go below. Same with being a buyer. Set a price in your mind that you'll walk on. Leave your egos at the door, and maybe strike a deal?

In my personal opinion most people SUCK at negotiating because they let their egos and emotions rule a business transaction.
 
It's just a game anyway, and the Marquis of Queensbury hasn't had time to write the rules. Play as you like, quit when you're tired. Hitting in clinches, rabbit punches, below the belt are common and should be expected.

When you plss with a skunk, be sure you bring plenty of stink.



Jim Logajan said:
That sounds like a good idea - but it presumes an honest demeaner. I doubt you can be in that mental state when you are in the process of making a rip-off offer.
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I sold my M20F Mooney within a week to the first caller. I priced it for the market, not what thought it was worth. Not much under Vref. A friend waited 15 months to sell his C182. The sellers market has been gone for awhile.
 
I met with the owner of an F-90 today to discuss a sale. After explaining that I am not a broker and limit my practice to buyer representation, we looked at the listings of comparable airplanes on Controller.

An airplane within 7 serial numbers and very similar time and equipment is listed for $900k. After the meeting I called one of foremost Beech brokers in the US to inquire about his fee and the price at which he would propose to list the airplane. He said it should bring $~550k, listing should be at lower than $600k to generate interest. I'm not thinking the owner will be thrilled by this news.
 
Apache123 said:
I decided to start counting after the third one, I've had 9 conversations that have gone like this:

"Hi I'm calling/emailing about the Apache"
"Hi there, <insert copy & paste response>"
"Yeah, that's a really great deal. I'll give you $(5,000~8,000)."
"./sigh <click>"

:mad2:
Click to expand...

Ah, I see you've met the aircraft broker I worked for in college! ;)
 
Apache123 said:
I decided to start counting after the third one, I've had 9 conversations that have gone like this:

"Hi I'm calling/emailing about the Apache"
"Hi there, <insert copy & paste response>"
"Yeah, that's a really great deal. I'll give you $(5,000~8,000)."
"./sigh <click>"

:mad2:
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Yep, it's not about numbers, it's about feeling good that you can f-k somebody...:lol::lol::lol: I could have told you, Internet pilots. Put a for sale sign in the window and go to some fly ins and find pilots looking for planes rather than vultures looking for a corpse.
 
I wouldn't have hung up, but I wouldn't have taken it personally either.

Reiterate asking price and let it hang there open-ended. They'll either say "not interested" and hang up, or get serious.

Really good manipulators will tell you some story about how their baby needs shoes. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
I wouldn't have hung up, but I wouldn't have taken it personally either.

Reiterate asking price and let it hang there open-ended. They'll either say "not interested" and hang up, or get serious.

Really good manipulators will tell you some story about how their baby needs shoes while they yell "seven come eleven" as they roll the bones. ;)
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FTFY;)
 
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