Lots of craziness

[steingar]

Took the Free Bird up to Ft. Wayne yesterday to see an old friend. Lots of airplanes out, and very welcome to see. I haven't seen this much activity in years.

That said, I there are lots of rusty pilots out there, my buddy included. I sent him up for three take-offs and landings for currency, from which he came back breathless with excitement from other aircraft behaving inappropriately. From what I could gather the controller on duty wasn't quite up to the challenge either.

I had him take the flight to SMD, during which the common frequency was just full of chatter. Again, hadn't heard that in an age. We started to follow a NORDO aircraft into Smith field (making appropriate radio calls) when the fellow turned around and started back-taxing on the runway (I usually go to the run off area at the end, turn around, and look for traffic before back taxing, silly me). Went around and finally landed, and had a nice visit with my old pal. Best quote, when told we referred to his spouse as Jabba the wife, he got visibly upset, said that was a horrible insult, and we shouldn't say such bad things about the hut. He is obviously in a very unhappy marriage.

We took off between two other aircraft doing pattern work at Smith. Back at the home field, I initiated a left downwind (the tower having closed some time before) until I heard a helicopter on right downwind. I went ahead and did a quick 360 to keep out of his way, then reinitiated my downwind, making calls the whole time. Turning base, I heard an aircraft call a two mile final (as his first call) and saw him a few miles back. I don't mind anyone doing a straight in approach, but a few radio calls when someone is in the pattern seems like a damn good idea.

I was closer and lower, so I continued my landing, which went fine. The other guy went around and landed, and a guy came in after him. I honestly haven't seen this much traffic in years. And it sounds like a lot of guys are pretty damn rusty. Be careful out there.

 

[spiderweb]

Yep. Only a step or two up from the craziness we see on the road!

 

[alaskaflyer]

Ahh, summer. You should see it here. Rumor is that the ntsb stages an extra investigator here for the first two weeks after the lakes outside Anchorage break up, and again for the two weeks surrounding the opening of moose season. Many pilots don't fly at all or very little except for during hunting season

 

[ScottM]

It is nice to see Smith getting so active again. It had really died a few years ago, but thanks to the locals it was brought back from the dead. The new aviation school on the airport is bringing more business to the land in an acceptable format. But even then flying had sort of died because of lack of tenets. But that seems to be changing and there is talk again of building new hangars.

 

[steingar]

There were plenty of operations while I was there, something I hadn't seen there in an age. They've got new buildings for the FBO and maintenance hangar, and will be moving in the near future.

All very welcome sights. On the downside, I saw my hangar neighbor for the first time in years. He had a stroke, and it giving up the game. He'll be selling his 150, and moving all the really really cool vintage vehicles out of the hangar, including the BSA.

 

[Jim_R]

We started to follow a NORDO aircraft into Smith field (making appropriate radio calls) when the fellow turned around and started back-taxing on the runway (I usually go to the run off area at the end, turn around, and look for traffic before back taxing, silly me).

Okay, learning opportunity for a newbie, here. I read this and was surprised. If I were following someone into a strip that had the potential for a back-taxi and I saw them miss the turnoff, I would be expecting them to turn around as soon as they could and back-taxi to clear the runway. Thus, if I were following closely, I'd be postured to go around in case they miss the turnoff.

I would not be expecting them to roll to the end and hang out while I landed. Even if I saw them do that, I would not feel comfortable landing on a runway where there was another plane present, even if I saw them roll off the side to the runup pad, because I may misunderstand their intentions, or they may somehow miss seeing me on final (hey, such things cause auto accidents all the time).

Similarly, if I were landing on such a strip, I would be trying to clear the runway as fast as possible, so my plan would be turn turn around and back-taxi to exit asap, not roll to the end, 180 and then back-taxi.

(Obviously I'm assuming no comm with the other pilot. If there's clear communication and understanding of intentions, I may choose differently.)

Am I clueless or a jerk? Is this an etiquette issue that I'm oblivious to? Or is this like so many other things where there are multiple schools of thought and no prevailing opinion?

 

[steingar]

Okay, learning opportunity for a newbie, here. I read this and was surprised. If I were following someone into a strip that had the potential for a back-taxi and I saw them miss the turnoff, I would be expecting them to turn around as soon as they could and back-taxi to clear the runway. Thus, if I were following closely, I'd be postured to go around in case they miss the turnoff.

Many smaller strips have no turn off and no taxi way. In this case there was only a crossed runway.

I would not be expecting them to roll to the end and hang out while I landed. Even if I saw them do that, I would not feel comfortable landing on a runway where there was another plane present, even if I saw them roll off the side to the runup pad, because I may misunderstand their intentions, or they may somehow miss seeing me on final (hey, such things cause auto accidents all the time).

I land on other strips where this is done fairly routinely. Land all the incoming traffic, and then everyone back taxis.

Similarly, if I were landing on such a strip, I would be trying to clear the runway as fast as possible, so my plan would be turn turn around and back-taxi to exit asap, not roll to the end, 180 and then back-taxi.

If there is other traffic in the pattern (and I always assume there is whether or not I hear them, my bad for not spotting my straight in conflict sooner) I want to see what's going on before I turn around on a potentially active runway. Thus I go to the nearest turn off, or the turn off at the end (the one-way runways I've landed had these) so I can visually ensure no traffic before I turn around. In these situations I usually land a bit long.

(Obviously I'm assuming no comm with the other pilot. If there's clear communication and understanding of intentions, I may choose differently.)

Am I clueless or a jerk? Is this an etiquette issue that I'm oblivious to? Or is this like so many other things where there are multiple schools of thought and no prevailing opinion?

You are simply asking a good question. I still think the NORDO guy did the wrong thing. Think about it this way. We were low on fuel, though not urgently so. What if a tank chose that moment to run dry? What if we had an engine failure? We could have been committed to land that runway while the guy was turning around, oblivious to the danger. I think he did the wrong thing because he needlessly turned around in the middle of a runway without visually confirming that there was no incoming traffic. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

What did he have to gain turning around like that? A minute, maybe two of taxiing. What did he have to lose? There could have been a collision with damage and loss of life. Such things have happened at airports before.

When in the traffic pattern your head should be on a swivel, and you should ascertain who is where. You just have to assume the other guy will do something to get in your way. Had I been the pilot at that point I would have already been prepared for the go-around, but I am ready for that for every landing. Every landing is a potential go-around.

 

[Jim_R]

Hmm. I've got some (more!) thinking to do.

I often fly to a field with a 4000' runway. It's got taxi intersections in the middle and at one end. If landing in the direction with no exit at the end, the displaced threshold leaves ~1500' from touchdown to the midfield taxiway. My flight skills are such that I typically miss that turnoff unless I stand on the brakes to stop, but I usually stop a few hundred feet past the turn. So, I can either turn around and roll maybe 200-500' to exit, or I can roll another 1500-1800' to the runup area at the far end, then 2000' back to the taxiway.

I have followed other planes into this field, and seen them do the just-miss-the-exit-turn-around-and-get-off-in-a-hurry thing. I didn't think anything of it, because (perhaps because I didn't know any better) it seemed the logical thing to do, and I was expecting them to do it.

We were low on fuel, though not urgently so. What if a tank chose that moment to run dry? What if we had an engine failure? We could have been committed to land that runway while the guy was turning around, oblivious to the danger. I think he did the wrong thing because he needlessly turned around in the middle of a runway without visually confirming that there was no incoming traffic. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

No, allowing myself to get low on fuel such that I'm worried about tanks going dry doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Oh, sorry...wrong question. : )

I understand your point, of course. And I can understand that folks familiar with a particular field might get used to all landing together and hanging out at the far end until the last plane's down, then traxiing as a group, for the group's benefit.

I've just never seen that behavior at the one field I know where it might happen, and so it surprised me to hear that that was what you expected. I'll have to keep that in mind from now on. Thanks.