Lost Medical situation, Flying with another pilot

Peggy, just make sure whoever's in the right seat is really comfortable being legal PIC from the right seat.

Log "PIC-(sole Manipulator)" for the time you actually do the flying.
 
Should I log PIC time?
No reason why not -- 61.51 says you can because you are rated and you are the sole manipulator.

Should he?
Not unless you're under the hood. Otherwise, there is no subparagraph of 61.51(e) under which he can.

Am I acting as PIC?
No, since you have determined that you are not medically qualified per 61.53(a)(1).

Yes.

Is this unsafe?
That's a question only Hubby can answer. He'll have to decide if he's fully competant and capable of determining whether your performance is satisfactory, and if not, whether he can safely assume control from the right seat in any flight situation he permits (as PIC) to occur. As he is nearing completion of CFI training, it might be OK, but it also might not. And the GI certificate has nothing to do with it -- it's all about evaluating performance flying from the right seat, which isn't measured in the GI certification process.
 
As he is nearing completion of CFI training, it might be OK, but it also might not. And the GI certificate has nothing to do with it -- it's all about evaluating performance flying from the right seat, which isn't measured in the GI certification process.

There is no certification or qualification that exists to "bless" someone to fly from the right seat of a small light plane. Various CFI's, clubs and aircraft owners may have differing opinions on this issue, but in the end, whether it is safe or is not is up to the pilot flying from the right to determine for his or herself. There's nothing "magic" about it, but the motor skills and scan are different and require practice.

I am not a CFI but I did get comfortable flying cherokees and light cessnas from the right seat, and able to take off, land and perform all private pilot PTS maneuvers within limits. Whenever I've flown PIC from the right, the person in the left was a pilot (either current or non-current... but initially only with current pilots until I was comfortable).

If Peggy wants to continue flying in this manner and her PIC hubby is comfortable with it, and is able to operate the aircraft safely, then it is a non issue (unless their insurance provider takes exception).
 
There is no certification or qualification that exists to "bless" someone to fly from the right seat of a small light plane. Various CFI's, clubs and aircraft owners may have differing opinions on this issue, but in the end, whether it is safe or is not is up to the pilot flying from the right to determine for his or herself. There's nothing "magic" about it, but the motor skills and scan are different and require practice.

I am not a CFI but I did get comfortable flying cherokees and light cessnas from the right seat, and able to take off, land and perform all private pilot PTS maneuvers within limits. Whenever I've flown PIC from the right, the person in the left was a pilot (either current or non-current... but initially only with current pilots until I was comfortable).
While being able to fly the plane from the right seat is necessary to this exercise, it is not sufficient. It is also necessary to be able to evaluate the performance of the pilot flying, determine when intervention is necessary, and know how to intervene, take control, and recover from whatever situation into which the pilot flying has put you. Those are the hard parts of the flying side being an CFI, and in the case of acting as PIC from the right seat while someone else flies the plane, those skills and knowledge are essential for safety. While it's possible to acquire them without being a CFI, few light GA pilots do. Hence, my statement you quoted -- the CFI training he's completed may have given him those skills, or it may not, and he'll have to decide for himself whether he's capable of fulfilling that role.
 
While being able to fly the plane from the right seat is necessary to this exercise, it is not sufficient. It is also necessary to be able to evaluate the performance of the pilot flying, determine when intervention is necessary, and know how to intervene, take control, and recover from whatever situation into which the pilot flying has put you. Those are the hard parts of the flying side being an CFI, and in the case of acting as PIC from the right seat while someone else flies the plane, those skills and knowledge are essential for safety. While it's possible to acquire them without being a CFI, few light GA pilots do. Hence, my statement you quoted -- the CFI training he's completed may have given him those skills, or it may not, and he'll have to decide for himself whether he's capable of fulfilling that role.

All true, but since Peggy's an accomplished pilot, the worry may be a little less, depending on what the medical condition is. The right seat work here is not quite the same as instructing where you can get wildly varying student performance. As you note, PegHub will need to decide for himself whether he's comfortable acting as PIC in the right.

Another alternative, Peggy, is for YOU to fly from the right seat - might be a good experience for you.
 
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All true, but since Peggy's an accomplished pilot, the worry may be a little less, depending on what the medical condition is.
After nearly 38 years as a CFI, I'm here to tell you that even the most "accomplished" pilots can still surprise you, and if they screw up while you're PIC, you eat the accident/violation.
 
After nearly 38 years as a CFI, I'm here to tell you that even the most "accomplished" pilots can still surprise you, and if they screw up while you're PIC, you eat the accident/violation.
No argument, hence my use of the word "may" and the rest of the post.
 
If it doesn't matter legally which seat the PIC sits in, which I agree with, then how is monitoring someone flying in the left seat any different than monitoring someone flying in the right seat? That is, assuming that you are comfortable in the right seat. I'm sure there are many people here who let their passengers manipulate the controls from the right seat even though they aren't even pilots.
 
All true, but since Peggy's an accomplished pilot, the worry may be a little less, depending on what the medical condition is. The right seat work here is not quite the same as instructing where you can get wildly varying student performance. As you note, PegHub will need to decide for himself whether he's comfortable acting as PIC in the right.

Another alternative, Peggy, is for YOU to fly from the right seat - might be a good experience for you.
Hubby always flys from the right seat now. Even when solo. Even when flying with a non-pilot passenger.
If I'm not feeling well enough to continue as pilot-flying, I just say so and he takes over.
 
If it doesn't matter legally which seat the PIC sits in, which I agree with, then how is monitoring someone flying in the left seat any different than monitoring someone flying in the right seat? That is, assuming that you are comfortable in the right seat. I'm sure there are many people here who let their passengers manipulate the controls from the right seat even though they aren't even pilots.

Well let's say you're somewhat proficient in the right seat but REALLY proficient in the left seat.

All other things equal (as far as your ability to recognize deviations and to correct for them), which seat lowers risk the most?

But as Peggy states, if he flies from the right all the time, then it's moot.
 
While it's possible to acquire them without being a CFI, few light GA pilots do. Hence, my statement you quoted -- the CFI training he's completed may have given him those skills, or it may not, and he'll have to decide for himself whether he's capable of fulfilling that role.

This isn't an instructional role... Its not the same as taking an ab initio student up aloft and saying "here, you try it". Or intentionally allowing a novice to depart controlled flight.. or anything else along those lines. Being a CFI involves not only flying from the right, but teaching from the right, evaluating from the right, and if need be, rescuing from the right. Simply piloting from the right seat with another pilot in the left does not rise to that level. Peggy has not suddenly become unsafe and dangerous, and shes not forgotten any of her skills. She could also very easily continue to exercise sport pilot privileges if she chose, as long as she felt safe and wasn't absolutely disqualified.

But as Ron said, anything that happens as a result of the control manupulator's actions, the PIC owns. Thats a matter of confidence and trust on the part of the PIC.
 
Hubby always flys from the right seat now. Even when solo. Even when flying with a non-pilot passenger.
If I'm not feeling well enough to continue as pilot-flying, I just say so and he takes over.

Sounds like a plan to me. :thumbsup:

Hope you get this sleep thing resolved (assuming that is the problem).
 
Well let's say you're somewhat proficient in the right seat but REALLY proficient in the left seat.

All other things equal (as far as your ability to recognize deviations and to correct for them), which seat lowers risk the most?
Is the goal always to have the lowest risk? If so we would stay on the ground. I think there's such a thing as being proficient enough although we may disagree on what that is.

But as Peggy states, if he flies from the right all the time, then it's moot.
True.
 
Is the goal always to have the lowest risk? If so we would stay on the ground. I think there's such a thing as being proficient enough although we may disagree on what that is.
I think the goal should be to do what you want to do with the lowest residual risk.
 
I think the goal should be to do what you want to do with the lowest residual risk.
Does that mean if there are two of you the most experienced pilot always flies? I think we will have to disagree about this.
 
Does that mean if there are two of you the most experienced pilot always flies? I think we will have to disagree about this.
I'm ok - but it depends on what the goal is. If the goal is the fly and share the duties, then no, the most experienced pilot doesn't always fly.

I think you're reading more into my statement about reducing risk than I intended. Again, figure out what it is you want to do. Then, without compromising that, reduce risk as much as you can.
 
Again, figure out what it is you want to do. Then, without compromising that, reduce risk as much as you can.
I thought that in this thread we were talking about, among other things, wanting to fly as PIC from the right seat. I don't see why some people have such heartburn about that.
 
I thought that in this thread we were talking about, among other things, wanting to fly as PIC from the right seat. I don't see why some people have such heartburn about that.
Well having recently gotten comfortable on the right side, I can see why. It takes a while to get used to flying that way. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to fly PIC from the right seat without the experience I got with a CFI in the left, and I wouldn't want to fly in IMC until I get some more experience.

You may have forgotten how strange it was when you first switched sides?
 
You may have forgotten how strange it was when you first switched sides?
We weren't talking about someone who has never flown from the right. I thought we were talking about someone who is comfortable in the right seat but is not a CFI. Personally I am much more comfortable flying from the left side. I think the last time I actually landed an airplane from the right side when someone was brave enough to let me do it at Gastons, yet I act as PIC from the right seat approximately 25 percent of the time. You might think this is risky but I'm sure I could land from the right seat if I had to do it.

Come to think of it, someone else has let me fly his small airplane from the left seat while he was PIC in the right seat and to my knowledge he is not a CFI. I made a pretty crappy landing too...
 
You may have forgotten how strange it was when you first switched sides?

Wasn't strange at all for me. Back in the olden days I flew from both sides - as a student and with my brother. Switching back and forth was a non-issue. (But that was in a Cessna 120 which is dirt simple to fly.)
 
Come to think of it, someone else has let me fly his small airplane from the left seat while he was PIC in the right seat and to my knowledge he is not a CFI. I made a pretty crappy landing too...
Way back when I was a 10-something hour student pilot and couldn't land worth a damn, a friend put me in the left seat of her airplane (which was a lot more nose-heavy than any trainer I'd flown) and let me try to land it. I tried about 5 or 6 times and each time she had to take over. She was not a CFI, but knowing when to step in didn't seem to be a problem for her. Actually landing the plane is when she nearly got into trouble. It was her first right seat landing IIRC, and she quickly realised that it was a bad idea.

If you're comfortable in the right seat (all phases of flight) I just don't see the problem if the left seater is a certificated pilot and proficient in the airplane, and someone you know well and trust. (as long as you're willing to take the heat if they mess up, of course)
 
This isn't an instructional role... Its not the same as taking an ab initio student up aloft and saying "here, you try it". Or intentionally allowing a novice to depart controlled flight.. or anything else along those lines. Being a CFI involves not only flying from the right, but teaching from the right, evaluating from the right, and if need be, rescuing from the right. Simply piloting from the right seat with another pilot in the left does not rise to that level.
Piloting from the right seat while another pilot occupies the left seat is one thing, but being PIC from the right seat while another pilot flies from the left is quite another. Like I said -- after 38 years as a CFI, I know that, because even "accomplished" pilots with whom I fly with still manage to surprise me with something requiring my immediate and unerring intervention. No cut on Peggy, but if Hubby is PIC, Hubby must be prepared for Peggy to do anything and for Hubby to have to fix it. If Hubby can do that, great; if he can't, then they should get someone who can to ride shotgun for Peggy. There are accidents on record (some fatal) where the non-CFI PIC in the right seat was unable to do enough fast enough to fix a problem caused by an error by the non-PIC pilot flying the plane from the left seat -- heck, even qualified CFI's get bit sometimes. No sense taking that risk if you're not reasonbly sure you can handle it (say, by being certified by the FAA as able to do so).
 
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Piloting from the right seat while another pilot occupies the left seat is one thing, but being PIC from the right seat while another pilot flies from the left is quite another. Like I said -- after 38 years as a CFI, I know that, because even "accomplished" pilots with whom I fly with still manage to surprise me with something requiring my immediate and unerring intervention. No cut on Peggy, but if Hubby is PIC, Hubby must be prepared for Peggy to do anything and for Hubby to have to fix it. If Hubby can do that, great; if he can't, then they should get someone who can to ride shotgun for Peggy. There are accidents on record (some fatal) where the non-CFI PIC in the right seat was unable to do enough fast enough to fix a problem caused by an error by the non-PIC pilot flying the plane from the left seat -- heck, even qualified CFI's get bit sometimes. No sense taking that risk if you're not reasonbly sure you can handle it (say, by being certified by the FAA as able to do so).
There's a really good Lindbergh quote for this someplace....it essentially says that as an instructor the pilot acquires knowledge of what the airplane will do when the student does something completely unanticipated.
 
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There's a really good Lindbergh quote for this someplace....it essentially says that as an instructor the pilot acquires knowledge of what the airplane will do when the student does something completely unanticipated.
And in that context, the term "student" is not limited to "Student Pilots" as defined by the FAA -- even ATP's and CFI's are sometimes "students" in that context.
 
Piloting from the right seat while another pilot occupies the left seat is one thing, but being PIC from the right seat while another pilot flies from the left is quite another. Like I said -- after 38 years as a CFI, I know that, because even "accomplished" pilots with whom I fly with still manage to surprise me with something requiring my immediate and unerring intervention. No cut on Peggy, but if Hubby is PIC, Hubby must be prepared for Peggy to do anything and for Hubby to have to fix it. If Hubby can do that, great; if he can't, then they should get someone who can to ride shotgun for Peggy. There are accidents on record (some fatal) where the non-CFI PIC in the right seat was unable to do enough fast enough to fix a problem caused by an error by the non-PIC pilot flying the plane from the left seat -- heck, even qualified CFI's get bit sometimes. No sense taking that risk if you're not reasonbly sure you can handle it (say, by being certified by the FAA as able to do so).

Good Grief .
 
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