Lopresti cowl mooney 201

DavidWhite said:
I'd be alot more interested at 10k, that's for sure.
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Lopresti does have sales. I am not sure how you would learn about them for Mooneys, but he announces sales sometimes at the Cirrus owners site -- recently it was a discount on wheel pants, and before that a trade-in discount for an HID landing light.

The used plane I bought came with his landing light, and it is a very nice upgrade, although I wouldn't want to pay for it new.
 
rbridges said:
Unless you have a specific mission need, I think the J is the best all around Mooney for the buck.
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I think a J airframe with a 260 HP TN IO 470 would be pretty optimum in result for performance and efficiency. 180 kts lean cruise that you can stretch even further at altitude.
 
My thinking is that your thinking stops short of the answer. Just because you can afford whatever they're selling doesn't mean it makes sense to buy it. The same logic holds true for the small-and-medium-buck owners as well.

Thinking you'll ever recover the cost of speed mods in either performance or resale is a case study in unrealistic expectations.

flhrci said:
My thinking is if you can afford to fly an expensive airplane and maintain it, you can afford the expensive mods because the money is not so much of an issue.

For those of us that fly very little and cannot afford a plane, those prices are ridiculous and the mods have no value.

It is all about your mindset/perspective and finances whether the mod is worth it or not.

David
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rbridges said:
The cowls that began on the J and laters are pretty decent from the factory.
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I read that Lopresti helped design the original J+ cowl, and actually, most of the aerodynamic improvements that made the J what it is.
 
rbridges said:
Unless you have a specific mission need, I think the J is the best all around Mooney for the buck.
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There are faster and roomier planes out there, but they all cost more than I can afford or they come in little pieces and I have to assemble them myself. :D The M20J is a huge step up from the C-152 I used to fly. :yes: Like someone else already said, the J cowl is already pretty good. I think if you could add the Lopresti cowl to an F model and the J-like performance, that might be worth doing.

Henning said:
I think a J airframe with a 260 HP TN IO 470 would be pretty optimum in result for performance and efficiency. 180 kts lean cruise that you can stretch even further at altitude.
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I want a 225hp low compression IO-470 with a mogas STC. 64 gallons * $3.29 gallons sounds good to me.
 
dmspilot said:
I read that Lopresti helped design the original J+ cowl, and actually, most of the aerodynamic improvements that made the J what it is.
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It was Roy who did that in the 70s. He is the father of the group. His children are continuing on in the business.
 
wabower said:
My thinking is that your thinking stops short of the answer. Just because you can afford whatever they're selling doesn't mean it makes sense to buy it. The same logic holds true for the small-and-medium-buck owners as well.

Thinking you'll ever recover the cost of speed mods in either performance or resale is a case study in unrealistic expectations.
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Speed mods are about buying time. I agree that for the most part it's grossly over rated, just buy the plane that does what you need. If/when they come in with Owner Maint Exp, that will make it a lot cheaper to develop these mods and buy a little speed, heck, you could make a set yourself.
 
If they ever do come up with owner experimental, expect some turbos to show up on the 310. Too bad I can't pressurize it.
 
If your frog grows a set of wings, you can make a lot of money with the circus. Odd of either happening are about the same.

Ted DuPuis said:
If they ever do come up with owner experimental, expect some turbos to show up on the 310. Too bad I can't pressurize it.
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wabower said:
If your frog grows a set of wings, you can make a lot of money with the circus. Odd of either happening are about the same.
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There you go, trying to spoil my fun with a dose of reality. Next thing you know someone's going to tell me my fashion sense is outdated. And that it wasn't even fashionable when it wasn't.
 
Well, you can't say we didn't warn you. When your kid's friends ask him about the strange-looking dude, he'll just have to say "Oh, that's just my dad. He always dresses that way."

Ted DuPuis said:
There you go, trying to spoil my fun with a dose of reality. Next thing you know someone's going to tell me my fashion sense is outdated. And that it wasn't even fashionable when it wasn't.
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It was the FAA making positive noise about Owner Experimental, very likely as the bone they're gonna have to throw to institute NextGen to get the required equipment into most of the fleet of old planes at some level of affordability. I can buy a better Experimental autopilot than certified at 1/10th the cost. The main reason I don't place the AP high on the list of upgrades is reliability, I just don't really trust them due to my experience with them which is about 90% failure at some point from uncommanded turns to just going to nothing. I think I have flown in 3 planes that had an autopilot that will function reliably more than 3 flights. Now with the service and parts both at S-Tec and Century the way they are, I don't want to install either of their overpriced units. S-Tec won't even let me buy used gear without gouging me for the STC if they'll sell it at all. If I had a mission for the 310 that dictated I put in an AP now I'd put in a Cessna 400.
 
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I had the LoPresti cowl on my Lance. It had about 357 screws to split it in half to take it off for oil changes or any other mx. My mechanic hated it. It was on the aircraft when I bought it, my the records I got with the plane put the speed gain at about 6 knots. That makes the $14,000 + paint and installation a bit steep in my book.

I don't know about the Mooney version, but the Lance version also has a 3-piece nosegear door, including a door in front of the gear leg that acts like a speed brake when you extend it. That was kind of handy.

A stock Lance has no cowl flaps, so adding that on the LoPresti cowl makes sense. The J Mooney does, though. I owned a J for a few years. Not much I would change on the stock model. I love those things.
 
Have you ever owned a plane with a Cessna 400? Or any autopilot? You think the owners who are replacing Cessna 400's with Stecs are just doing it as an excuse to spend money? At least 4 such planes are maintained by the local shop in the event you want to interview people with actual experience.

Henning said:
It was the FAA making positive noise about Owner Experimental, very likely as the bone they're gonna have to throw to institute NextGen to get the required equipment into most of the fleet of old planes at some level of affordability. I can buy a better Experimental autopilot than certified at 1/10th the cost. The main reason I don't place the AP high on the list of upgrades is reliability, I just don't really trust them due to my experience with them which is about 90% failure at some point from uncommanded turns to just going to nothing. I think I have flown in 3 planes that had an autopilot that will function reliably more than 3 flights. Now with the service and parts both at S-Tec and Century the way they are, I don't want to install either of their overpriced units. S-Tec won't even let me buy used gear without gouging me for the STC if they'll sell it at all. If I had a mission for the 310 that dictated I put in an AP now I'd put in a Cessna 400.
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wabower said:
Have you ever owned a plane with a Cessna 400? Or any autopilot? You think the owners who are replacing Cessna 400's with Stecs are just doing it as an excuse to spend money? At least 4 such planes are maintained by the local shop in the event you want to interview people with actual experience.
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I am aware which is why I haven't bothered with an AP. I owned a Tactair, gave upon that pretty quickly. I maintained planes with them and did the shop floor stuff of R&Ring the gear in the airframe; all the major brands were represented.

The way S-TEC operates their parts and service now, I can keep a C-400 which any certified avionics shop can use off the shelf components to fix and install on the TC operating for less $$ over 5 years when calculated against the 90% savings at acquisition. I'm hoping in 5 years Garmin will have a plug and play retrofit of the G-700 series AP to go with the 500/600 series heads and 750 radios. In all likelihood I'll do without until there is a better option than any currently available.
 
Understood. But for those who actually use their planes regularly, trying to outwait the market or cobble up 1960's technology and hope it works between shop visits isn't a viable option.
Henning said:
I am aware which is why I haven't bothered with an AP. I owned a Tactair, gave upon that pretty quickly. I maintained planes with them and did the shop floor stuff of R&Ring the gear in the airframe; all the major brands were represented.

The way S-TEC operates their parts and service now, I can keep a C-400 which any certified avionics shop can use off the shelf components to fix and install on the TC operating for less $$ over 5 years when calculated against the 90% savings at acquisition. I'm hoping in 5 years Garmin will have a plug and play retrofit of the G-700 series AP to go with the 500/600 series heads and 750 radios. In all likelihood I'll do without until there is a better option than any currently available.
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With regards to Lo Presti and commercialization- What people are missing here is the aircraft market has changed, drastically from the time when Lo Presti developed the cowl STC. Not too many years ago, aircraft values were very high. Cowl STC was more geared towards people with M20Es and Fs than it was people with Js. Prices were such that you could buy an M20E, put the Lo Presti cowl on and have a faster plane for about the same, or cheaper than an M20J.

Then the airplane market tanked. It seems to go ever lower. People are now parting out planes when they need an engine overhaul instead of rebuilding. With prices the way they are, selling speed mods is indeed very tough.

Oh yeah, the "Just sell them at $10,000 installed and they'll make lots of money" theory is about on par with the "Cessna should just sell the Skyhawk for $100,000 and they'll make billions" argument. Neither are based anywhere near reality. The costs associated with developing, certifying, producing and insuring aircraft and parts is astronomical and the available market of potential buyers is quite low.
 
wabower said:
Understood. But for those who actually use their planes regularly, trying to outwait the market or cobble up 1960's technology and hope it works between shop visits isn't a viable option.
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Even in regular use flying hundreds of hours a year, I still am perfectly comfortable with no AP. The only airline gig I had had no AP. Just not that big of an issue, just keep tapping the trim and rudder pedals and there's not much to need.
 
Henning said:
Even in regular use flying hundreds of hours a year, I still am perfectly comfortable with no AP. The only airline gig I had had no AP. Just not that big of an issue, just keep tapping the trim and rudder pedals and there's not much to need.
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Yeah, but you're in the minority in this regard. Regardless of whether or not the AP is needed, most other pilots who own faster, more complex planes that they use regularly want it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Yeah, but you're in the minority in this regard. Regardless of whether or not the AP is needed, most other pilots who own faster, more complex planes that they use regularly want it.
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I don't not want one, it's just way down on the list of things I'd add or reject a purchase over.
 
Henning said:
I don't not want one, it's just way down on the list of things I'd add or reject a purchase over.
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Again, that makes you in the minority. This is advantageous from the perspective of a buyer when you are one. :)
 
I like autopilots with altitude hold and the economy of having a single engine. :D
 
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