looking to engage a pilot to fly to Nantucket

harryneedles

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harry
After 12 years of flying I am no longer current (eye problem) and would like to engage a pilot with a 4 seater (nothing fancy but clean, please) to fly me from a location in NJ to Nantucket, wait 4 hours max and then fly me back one day in September. Is that possible? If so, please let me know your charges; I'd be happy to pay any reasonable amount to make it worth your trouble.
 
From a legality standpoint what you are specifically requesting isn't possible under Part 91 and you'd need to talk to a commercial operator with a 135 certificate that can carry passengers for hire.
 
Harry as you may recall from your days as a private pilot, another private pilot can't take you up on your offer as they would run afoul of FAA regulations regarding compensation. I suspect that there may be some Charter operators on the board who could help you out. I'm sure there are some in your area, even small ones at local fields who fly Cirrus or other small SEP planes. Good luck in your search.
 
You could always offer to share expenses with the pilot who also would like to go to Nantucket for some sightseeing and lunch . . .

<cough><cough>
 
CFI. Dual instruction.
The FAA takes a very dim view of instructors running faux 135 operations under the guise of giving training. In addition, the idea of expense sharing on a flight without common purpose (i.e., the pilot having a legitimate reason to be going the same place on the same day) is a nonstarter. I'm with the others -- this is simply not within the realm of anything which can be done legally without a 135 certificate.
 
There are three ways to do this legally.
  • You can "ride along" with someone you know who's going to Nantucket anyway.
  • If you own an airplane (or can provide one), you can hire a commercial pilot to fly it for you.
  • You can charter an airplane from a 135 operator.
The "common purpose" in the first option can get somewhat grey, but for the other pilot to remain clean it's best that the flight be his idea and it take place on his schedule.
 
The "common purpose" in the first option can get somewhat grey, but for the other pilot to remain clean it's best that the flight be his idea and it take place on his schedule.
If the pilot is answering a public solicitation for a flight to a specific location on the advertiser's schedule, it's going to be a lot harder for the pilot to show common purpose. Caveat aviator.
 
If the pilot is answering a public solicitation for a flight to a specific location on the advertiser's schedule, it's going to be a lot harder for the pilot to show common purpose. Caveat aviator.

Yes, especially in the Classifieds section.
 
I don't get it. Aren't there plenty of folks with a commercial license here? would they not be allowed to take this guy?
 
I don't get it. Aren't there plenty of folks with a commercial license here? would they not be allowed to take this guy?
I'm not a pilot, so my take may be way off, but the way I read it, if the plane doesn't meet the requirements of part 135, then even a commercial pilot cannot fly someone for hire, in a plane he provides. Whether he could be hired to fly your own plane, I do not know.
 
I don't get it. Aren't there plenty of folks with a commercial license here? would they not be allowed to take this guy?

I am a commercial pilot but I am not a commercial operator holding a Part 135 certificate. In order to fly passengers for hire like this one must be operating under a Part 135 cert, with a commercial pilot or better that meets the minimums of 135.
 
If the pilot is answering a public solicitation for a flight to a specific location on the advertiser's schedule, it's going to be a lot harder for the pilot to show common purpose. Caveat aviator.

I agree, but I suspect there are quite a few people flying from NJ to ACK sometime in September that would be happy to take him along.
 
I'm not a pilot, so my take may be way off, but the way I read it, if the plane doesn't meet the requirements of part 135, then even a commercial pilot cannot fly someone for hire, in a plane he provides. Whether he could be hired to fly your own plane, I do not know.
You're right.

If the pilot flying the airplane provides the airplane (or a company provides the pilot and the airplane), it's (typically) a 135 operation.

If the passenger provides the airplane, then it's not.

Example - you buy, lease, or rent an airplane. Whether or not you are a pilot doesn't matter. You can hire me, a commercial pilot, to work for you and fly you in that airplane and it's not a 135 operation. You're the "operator" in this case and it comes under part 91. The airplane and I must both be "legal" for the flight under part 91 rules, not under part 135 rules.
 
If Hubby & I own the plane (Part 91), and I rent the plane to the OP, and Hubby (CFI & Commercial) flies him to Nantucket, is that OK?

If I decide to come along to Nantucket, is that still OK?

If OP wants to go to Nantucket and Hubby & I decide that would make a nice trip and we decide to go and take the OP, is that OK?
 
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This is slightly off the original topic, but as I understand the current Chief Council's opinion, as a private pilot I may not fly another employee with me on a business flight (edit: and be reimbursed for the cost). But if I have a commercial certificate, I can. Do I also have to have a 2nd class medical or will a 3rd class suffice? This is just a privately owned airplane and we're both going for business reasons (to attend the same meeting for example).

John
 
This is slightly off the original topic, but as I understand the current Chief Council's opinion, as a private pilot I may not fly another employee with me on a business flight (edit: and be reimbursed for the cost). But if I have a commercial certificate, I can. Do I also have to have a 2nd class medical or will a 3rd class suffice? This is just a privately owned airplane and we're both going for business reasons (to attend the same meeting for example).

John
If the operation requires a commercial certificate, you're exercising the privileges of said certificate and, in order to do that, you need a second class medical. As you said, though, this would be to have the company reimburse you. You could, instead, fly with the colleague as you'd have a common purpose. Your pro rata share could not be reimbursed. Your colleague could pay you the remainder, though.
 
If Hubby & I own the plane (Part 91), and I rent the plane to the OP, and Hubby (CFI & Commercial) flies him to Nantucket, is that OK?
No not unless the guy provided the airplane in a way that is 100% completely most definitely unrelated to your Hubby. Since your Hubby owns it, that would be extremely difficult to claim.
 
If Hubby & I own the plane (Part 91), and I rent the plane to the OP, and Hubby (CFI & Commercial) flies him to Nantucket, is that OK?

If I decide to come along to Nantucket, is that still OK?

If OP wants to go to Nantucket and Hubby & I decide that would make a nice trip and we decide to go and take the OP, is that OK?

That sounds like another version of Dr. Bruce's "Dancing on a Pin".
 
If he finds a commercially rated pilot to fly an FBO rental 172, and pays for the rental on his credit card, he is legal correct.
 
If he finds a commercially rated pilot to fly an FBO rental 172, and pays for the rental on his credit card, he is legal correct.
Correct as far as the FAA is concerned.

Unfortunately, most FBOs won't let anyone other than the person who is renting the airplane fly the airplane.

I have gone on flights as a paid "backup pilot" on rentals, in case the VFR pilot ran into instrument weather. But it only worked because I was also checked out in the airplane by the FBO as a renter, and because I have my commercial and at the time had a current second class medical.

Again, if the OP provides the airplane, then he can hire a commercial pilot to fly it for him.
 
You're right.

If the pilot flying the airplane provides the airplane (or a company provides the pilot and the airplane), it's (typically) a 135 operation.

If the passenger provides the airplane, then it's not.

Example - you buy, lease, or rent an airplane. Whether or not you are a pilot doesn't matter. You can hire me, a commercial pilot, to work for you and fly you in that airplane and it's not a 135 operation. You're the "operator" in this case and it comes under part 91. The airplane and I must both be "legal" for the flight under part 91 rules, not under part 135 rules.
Thanks, Tim. I have actually learned something here. And the way I take the rental thing is that if the OP rents the plane, and the CP flies it, he's good (with the FAA, anyway - Insurance, maybe not so much). But the problem is that the OP won't be able to rent the plane because the FBOs won't rent it to him unless he's a current pilot, with medical, checked out in it. Good?
 
Thanks, Tim. I have actually learned something here. And the way I take the rental thing is that if the OP rents the plane, and the CP flies it, he's good (with the FAA, anyway - Insurance, maybe not so much). But the problem is that the OP won't be able to rent the plane because the FBOs won't rent it to him unless he's a current pilot, with medical, checked out in it. Good?

Generally, yes. This is often driven by insurance.

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Is this a lot different from the request by JetHikingGypsy
Yes, because JHG was basically asking for free rides wherever the pilot happened to be going. This poster is asking for a ride to a specific place on the poster's schedule, and offering to pay a set price for it without regard to direct expenses of the flight.
 
I don't get it. Aren't there plenty of folks with a commercial license here?
Yes, there are.

would they not be allowed to take this guy?
Yes, they would not be allowed to do that. There's a big difference between a commercial pilot certificate, which allows a pilot to be paid for flying a plane (but not to be paid for providing air transportation) and the commercial operating certificate required to operate an on-demand air taxi service, which is essentially what the OP's request entails. See Parts 119 and 135 of the FAR's to learn about commercial operating certificates and when they are required, and 61.133 for commercial pilot privileges and limitations.
 
I agree, but I suspect there are quite a few people flying from NJ to ACK sometime in September that would be happy to take him along.
On the day he wants to go, and to wait four hours for him, and to head back when the passenger is ready to go? Sorry -- too many ducks quacking.
 
If Hubby & I own the plane (Part 91), and I rent the plane to the OP, and Hubby (CFI & Commercial) flies him to Nantucket, is that OK?
That won't pass the sniff test -- the existing relationship between you and Hubby (not to mention the shared ownership of the airplane) sinks that ship before it leaves the harbor.
 
If he finds a commercially rated pilot to fly an FBO rental 172, and pays for the rental on his credit card, he is legal correct.
...as long as the commercial pilot has no relationship with the FBO whatsoever, and the FBO has no say in who flies the plane, in which case the FBO is most unlikely to do the deal.
 
Thanks, Tim. I have actually learned something here. And the way I take the rental thing is that if the OP rents the plane, and the CP flies it, he's good (with the FAA, anyway - Insurance, maybe not so much). But the problem is that the OP won't be able to rent the plane because the FBOs won't rent it to him unless he's a current pilot, with medical, checked out in it. Good?
Exactly.
 
Unless you turned your ticket in at the FSDO, you are still a pilot, just one with an expired BFR and medical.

Find a FBO that will rent to you if you take one of their instructors* along as safety pilot (this is no different from an old guy with his bonanza who takes a long a properly certificated and current buddy for his pancake runs).

The other option is that you find someone with a commercial and YOU come up with the airplane and organize the trip. It may require that 'your pilot' gets checked out in the fbos plane on your dime, but if he is an instructor from another school with experience in the type, that shouldn't require more than a lap around the pattern (or whatever the insurance company actually requires, none of the 2hr bs checkouts used to milk people who walk through the fbo door).

* with a valid 2nd class medical
 
Unless you turned your ticket in at the FSDO, you are still a pilot, just one with an expired BFR and medical.

Find a FBO that will rent to you if you take one of their instructors* along as safety pilot (this is no different from an old guy with his bonanza who takes a long a properly certificated and current buddy for his pancake runs).

The other option is that you find someone with a commercial and YOU come up with the airplane and organize the trip. It may require that 'your pilot' gets checked out in the fbos plane on your dime, but if he is an instructor from another school with experience in the type, that shouldn't require more than a lap around the pattern (or whatever the insurance company actually requires, none of the 2hr bs checkouts used to milk people who walk through the fbo door).

* with a valid 2nd class medical

The second option certainly works. The first one is still sort of gray because the same entity is providing a plane and a pilot to the person paying the bill.
 
No one has done it yet so...

There once was a man headed for Nantucket...

Nevermind. ;)
 
Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. I am not looking in any way to bend any rules. I had called a few charter services and the costs were astronomical in part because the planes were larger than I needed as all I need is a 4 seater. I thought there would be properly licensed pilots on this message board who would be able to be hired; I also assumed they would own or be able to rent their own planes and that it would be done according to the rules. I didnt realize one needed to be a charter service. Thanks anyway! Ill let you know how it turns out...
 
Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. I am not looking in any way to bend any rules. I had called a few charter services and the costs were astronomical in part because the planes were larger than I needed as all I need is a 4 seater. I thought there would be properly licensed pilots on this message board who would be able to be hired; I also assumed they would own or be able to rent their own planes and that it would be done according to the rules. I didnt realize one needed to be a charter service. Thanks anyway! Ill let you know how it turns out...

Try Aerotech Services in Lancaster, Pa They go there weekly.

717-394-2675
 
Hypothetical: Pilot needs to fulfill his requirements for commercial rating. He needs his 300 (or 100) mile solo flight. Could he, fly the first leg of his required flight, have a side flight to another destination with a friend, return to the previous location, and complete the remaining portion of the commercial flight requirement?
I've heard that the requirement does not have to be completed in one day, but no one said anything bout a side trip.
 
Hypothetical: Pilot needs to fulfill his requirements for commercial rating. He needs his 300 (or 100) mile solo flight. Could he, fly the first leg of his required flight, have a side flight to another destination with a friend, return to the previous location, and complete the remaining portion of the commercial flight requirement?
I've heard that the requirement does not have to be completed in one day, but no one said anything bout a side trip.
Beats me. You'd have to ask the Chief Counsel to get a reliable answer.
 
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